Uwe Alzen, the 991 GT3 and the Nordschleife come together
10-09-2013, 06:43 PM
#16
Instructor
So, for a newbie track person (I have done many motorcycle track days, and done level one Porsche academy - came in 1st place :-). ) what would more expert drivers suggest when I pick up my gt3 with ED next year? Should I pootle around the nurburgring just to feel like I did it?.. Are there enough blind corners where if I get on it a bit I risk trashing my new car. I've played the ring on video games my whole life, but I still can't remember every corner
You can simply rock up on a Touristfarhten day and do a few cautious laps. This is also the best way to experience the mayhem of the Ring in it's full glory. It's crazy - and glorious!
If you want to be more serious about driving the ring, want to do more laps and want to do it in a "safer" environment, then you should make sure your trip coincides with a private track day. Luckily these seem to be more common now. You should also hire an instructor, and you should do some prep work from home. The track day organizer will usually have instructors available, and if not you can PM me for a recommendation.
Even better if you can swing it, is to do the Scuderia Hanseat or the BMW 3 day courses first, and then take your GT3 there.
The prep work from home is to drive the Ring on Grand Turismo 5 with a proper force feedback steering wheel. From this you should get to know every turn, and in particular:
1. Does the next turn go left or right
2. Is it a fast turn or slow turn
3. Very important, memorize all the bend/section names.
The latter is crucial as you otherwise can't communicate with an instructor: "Eh, it was that multi-apex right hander that comes after a left-right kink over a slight crest..."
Driving the Ring is not daunting, it's just a road. Driving the Ring fast is VERY daunting. And addictive! Plus, if you have driven your car at the Ring, you earn the right to put a Ring sticker on the back!
My Ring experience:
I have have driven the Ring every year for the last 14 years (except one). I did 2 full seasons of VLN, incl. the 24hr races. I used to have 2 cars parked at the Ring so I could fly over from London and drive, and have done countless tourist days and track days there. I used to fly over 10 - 12 times in a season. Now I live in CA, so it's once or twice a year for me. I lost exact count, but I have racked up over 2500 laps by now.
I did 8:05 BTG in my 2003 996.2 GT3 Club Sport (sold), and 8:24 BTG in my 1993 968 Club Sport with full M030. The latter is still parked at the Ring.
Best,
-Christian
10-09-2013, 09:34 PM
#17
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10-10-2013, 04:46 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
So, for a newbie track person (I have done many motorcycle track days, and done level one Porsche academy - came in 1st place :-). ) what would more expert drivers suggest when I pick up my gt3 with ED next year? Should I pootle around the nurburgring just to feel like I did it?.. Are there enough blind corners where if I get on it a bit I risk trashing my new car. I've played the ring on video games my whole life, but I still can't remember every corner
conditions were so bad that I was able to pass several GT3s and Aston Martins in my lowly rental GT86 ...
If you do not know the track, attempting a "fast"/competitive lap in a GT3, even the 991 is not what I would recommend the risk is very, very high that not knowing the line you will enter a corner that you cannot navigate at your entry speed etc...
A lap of the Ring is a bucket list item especially if you have done ED, I did it, but I knew the line(s) when I did it ...
If you can pootle then by all means do it ... but the car will not save you if you drive beyond your knowledge and/or ability!
- Larry
10-10-2013, 04:50 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
First of all congratulations on the new car! Second, you must definitely drive your new GT3 at the Ring. And Spa too if you can. Although anyting can happen on a track (or on the street), safety at the Ring is mostly a matter of your speed. Tourists go around the place in their stationwagons with the kids in the back. You occationally see double decker tour buses too. You can and should do it - absolutely.
You can simply rock up on a Touristfarhten day and do a few cautious laps. This is also the best way to experience the mayhem of the Ring in it's full glory. It's crazy - and glorious!
If you want to be more serious about driving the ring, want to do more laps and want to do it in a "safer" environment, then you should make sure your trip coincides with a private track day. Luckily these seem to be more common now. You should also hire an instructor, and you should do some prep work from home. The track day organizer will usually have instructors available, and if not you can PM me for a recommendation.
Even better if you can swing it, is to do the Scuderia Hanseat or the BMW 3 day courses first, and then take your GT3 there.
The prep work from home is to drive the Ring on Grand Turismo 5 with a proper force feedback steering wheel. From this you should get to know every turn, and in particular:
1. Does the next turn go left or right
2. Is it a fast turn or slow turn
3. Very important, memorize all the bend/section names.
The latter is crucial as you otherwise can't communicate with an instructor: "Eh, it was that multi-apex right hander that comes after a left-right kink over a slight crest..."
Driving the Ring is not daunting, it's just a road. Driving the Ring fast is VERY daunting. And addictive! Plus, if you have driven your car at the Ring, you earn the right to put a Ring sticker on the back!
My Ring experience:
I have have driven the Ring every year for the last 14 years (except one). I did 2 full seasons of VLN, incl. the 24hr races. I used to have 2 cars parked at the Ring so I could fly over from London and drive, and have done countless tourist days and track days there. I used to fly over 10 - 12 times in a season. Now I live in CA, so it's once or twice a year for me. I lost exact count, but I have racked up over 2500 laps by now.
I did 8:05 BTG in my 2003 996.2 GT3 Club Sport (sold), and 8:24 BTG in my 1993 968 Club Sport with full M030. The latter is still parked at the Ring.
Best,
-Christian
You can simply rock up on a Touristfarhten day and do a few cautious laps. This is also the best way to experience the mayhem of the Ring in it's full glory. It's crazy - and glorious!
If you want to be more serious about driving the ring, want to do more laps and want to do it in a "safer" environment, then you should make sure your trip coincides with a private track day. Luckily these seem to be more common now. You should also hire an instructor, and you should do some prep work from home. The track day organizer will usually have instructors available, and if not you can PM me for a recommendation.
Even better if you can swing it, is to do the Scuderia Hanseat or the BMW 3 day courses first, and then take your GT3 there.
The prep work from home is to drive the Ring on Grand Turismo 5 with a proper force feedback steering wheel. From this you should get to know every turn, and in particular:
1. Does the next turn go left or right
2. Is it a fast turn or slow turn
3. Very important, memorize all the bend/section names.
The latter is crucial as you otherwise can't communicate with an instructor: "Eh, it was that multi-apex right hander that comes after a left-right kink over a slight crest..."
Driving the Ring is not daunting, it's just a road. Driving the Ring fast is VERY daunting. And addictive! Plus, if you have driven your car at the Ring, you earn the right to put a Ring sticker on the back!
My Ring experience:
I have have driven the Ring every year for the last 14 years (except one). I did 2 full seasons of VLN, incl. the 24hr races. I used to have 2 cars parked at the Ring so I could fly over from London and drive, and have done countless tourist days and track days there. I used to fly over 10 - 12 times in a season. Now I live in CA, so it's once or twice a year for me. I lost exact count, but I have racked up over 2500 laps by now.
I did 8:05 BTG in my 2003 996.2 GT3 Club Sport (sold), and 8:24 BTG in my 1993 968 Club Sport with full M030. The latter is still parked at the Ring.
Best,
-Christian
Also watch the many many crash videos and figure out where and why those occurred, you will see the pattern emerge!
have fun
- Larry
10-10-2013, 08:56 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
fully subscribe to above comments on the 'Ring...I drove there the last week of Sept., then watched the 4hr
VLN race on Saturday.
It is definitely more fun/challenging than any track in the States.
going back in '15...hopefully to pick-up a new RS!
VLN race on Saturday.
It is definitely more fun/challenging than any track in the States.
going back in '15...hopefully to pick-up a new RS!
10-11-2013, 12:44 PM
#21
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First of all congratulations on the new car! Second, you must definitely drive your new GT3 at the Ring. And Spa too if you can. Although anyting can happen on a track (or on the street), safety at the Ring is mostly a matter of your speed. Tourists go around the place in their stationwagons with the kids in the back. You occationally see double decker tour buses too. You can and should do it - absolutely.
You can simply rock up on a Touristfarhten day and do a few cautious laps. This is also the best way to experience the mayhem of the Ring in it's full glory. It's crazy - and glorious!
If you want to be more serious about driving the ring, want to do more laps and want to do it in a "safer" environment, then you should make sure your trip coincides with a private track day. Luckily these seem to be more common now. You should also hire an instructor, and you should do some prep work from home. The track day organizer will usually have instructors available, and if not you can PM me for a recommendation.
Even better if you can swing it, is to do the Scuderia Hanseat or the BMW 3 day courses first, and then take your GT3 there.
The prep work from home is to drive the Ring on Grand Turismo 5 with a proper force feedback steering wheel. From this you should get to know every turn, and in particular:
1. Does the next turn go left or right
2. Is it a fast turn or slow turn
3. Very important, memorize all the bend/section names.
The latter is crucial as you otherwise can't communicate with an instructor: "Eh, it was that multi-apex right hander that comes after a left-right kink over a slight crest..."
Driving the Ring is not daunting, it's just a road. Driving the Ring fast is VERY daunting. And addictive! Plus, if you have driven your car at the Ring, you earn the right to put a Ring sticker on the back!
My Ring experience:
I have have driven the Ring every year for the last 14 years (except one). I did 2 full seasons of VLN, incl. the 24hr races. I used to have 2 cars parked at the Ring so I could fly over from London and drive, and have done countless tourist days and track days there. I used to fly over 10 - 12 times in a season. Now I live in CA, so it's once or twice a year for me. I lost exact count, but I have racked up over 2500 laps by now.
I did 8:05 BTG in my 2003 996.2 GT3 Club Sport (sold), and 8:24 BTG in my 1993 968 Club Sport with full M030. The latter is still parked at the Ring.
Best,
-Christian
You can simply rock up on a Touristfarhten day and do a few cautious laps. This is also the best way to experience the mayhem of the Ring in it's full glory. It's crazy - and glorious!
If you want to be more serious about driving the ring, want to do more laps and want to do it in a "safer" environment, then you should make sure your trip coincides with a private track day. Luckily these seem to be more common now. You should also hire an instructor, and you should do some prep work from home. The track day organizer will usually have instructors available, and if not you can PM me for a recommendation.
Even better if you can swing it, is to do the Scuderia Hanseat or the BMW 3 day courses first, and then take your GT3 there.
The prep work from home is to drive the Ring on Grand Turismo 5 with a proper force feedback steering wheel. From this you should get to know every turn, and in particular:
1. Does the next turn go left or right
2. Is it a fast turn or slow turn
3. Very important, memorize all the bend/section names.
The latter is crucial as you otherwise can't communicate with an instructor: "Eh, it was that multi-apex right hander that comes after a left-right kink over a slight crest..."
Driving the Ring is not daunting, it's just a road. Driving the Ring fast is VERY daunting. And addictive! Plus, if you have driven your car at the Ring, you earn the right to put a Ring sticker on the back!
My Ring experience:
I have have driven the Ring every year for the last 14 years (except one). I did 2 full seasons of VLN, incl. the 24hr races. I used to have 2 cars parked at the Ring so I could fly over from London and drive, and have done countless tourist days and track days there. I used to fly over 10 - 12 times in a season. Now I live in CA, so it's once or twice a year for me. I lost exact count, but I have racked up over 2500 laps by now.
I did 8:05 BTG in my 2003 996.2 GT3 Club Sport (sold), and 8:24 BTG in my 1993 968 Club Sport with full M030. The latter is still parked at the Ring.
Best,
-Christian
This is what I use: VisionRacer VR3 rig
10-15-2013, 05:18 PM
#22
Instructor
+1 to what Christian says; I would also recommend locating multiple full lap videos of the ring on youtube and studying those, they are much mre effective (I find) in learning the visual cues to the various corners and lines than the virtual world of a driving game ...
More importantly, +1 on watching videos. Especially find ones that show the bend names, so you can make the visual connection.
Again, this is all if you want to do some serious lapping and get coaching, etc, etc.
If you have enough self control to just tootle, then by all means just do, but still be VERY aware of who's around and who's speeding up behind you. As I wrote, the Ring is just a road and the danger level is directly proportional to your speed. Tootle, really means tootle. It means pretend this is Pikes Peak with no guard rails and you're driving it for the first time.
The most egregious example of not being cautious in a fast car was two people in a brand new Enzo on their first lap, crashing in Swedenkreutz (a fast left hander with a brow before it) so badly the car burned to a crisp with both occupants inside it. I was there, but didn't see it. A friend of mine did....
Anyway, go slow, be aware, and you'll be fine. Or do all the prep and get coaching. Either way, you should just go there as a destination. The parking lot is quite a spectacle, and there are some excellent points along the track that are easy to get to and make for great watching, such as the jump at Pflanzgarten, the downhill esses into Brünnchen, and Breidscheid. The first two are close to each other and have good parking, the latter may now be blocked by walls on the bridge, but worth checking out if it's still viewable.
www.nurburgring.org.uk is a pretty good website with loads of info (and warnings), and a decent list of bend names (and a video with bend names that includes part of the GP circuit) here: http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/bendnames/index.php
We'll have to keep this thread alive, so we know what you decide to do and how it goes! Report back!
-Christian
10-15-2013, 08:12 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
+1 on the +1!
More importantly, +1 on watching videos. Especially find ones that show the bend names, so you can make the visual connection.
Again, this is all if you want to do some serious lapping and get coaching, etc, etc.
If you have enough self control to just tootle, then by all means just do, but still be VERY aware of who's around and who's speeding up behind you. As I wrote, the Ring is just a road and the danger level is directly proportional to your speed. Tootle, really means tootle. It means pretend this is Pikes Peak with no guard rails and you're driving it for the first time.
The most egregious example of not being cautious in a fast car was two people in a brand new Enzo on their first lap, crashing in Swedenkreutz (a fast left hander with a brow before it) so badly the car burned to a crisp with both occupants inside it. I was there, but didn't see it. A friend of mine did....
Anyway, go slow, be aware, and you'll be fine. Or do all the prep and get coaching. Either way, you should just go there as a destination. The parking lot is quite a spectacle, and there are some excellent points along the track that are easy to get to and make for great watching, such as the jump at Pflanzgarten, the downhill esses into Brünnchen, and Breidscheid. The first two are close to each other and have good parking, the latter may now be blocked by walls on the bridge, but worth checking out if it's still viewable.
www.nurburgring.org.uk is a pretty good website with loads of info (and warnings), and a decent list of bend names (and a video with bend names that includes part of the GP circuit) here: http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/bendnames/index.php
We'll have to keep this thread alive, so we know what you decide to do and how it goes! Report back!
-Christian
More importantly, +1 on watching videos. Especially find ones that show the bend names, so you can make the visual connection.
Again, this is all if you want to do some serious lapping and get coaching, etc, etc.
If you have enough self control to just tootle, then by all means just do, but still be VERY aware of who's around and who's speeding up behind you. As I wrote, the Ring is just a road and the danger level is directly proportional to your speed. Tootle, really means tootle. It means pretend this is Pikes Peak with no guard rails and you're driving it for the first time.
The most egregious example of not being cautious in a fast car was two people in a brand new Enzo on their first lap, crashing in Swedenkreutz (a fast left hander with a brow before it) so badly the car burned to a crisp with both occupants inside it. I was there, but didn't see it. A friend of mine did....
Anyway, go slow, be aware, and you'll be fine. Or do all the prep and get coaching. Either way, you should just go there as a destination. The parking lot is quite a spectacle, and there are some excellent points along the track that are easy to get to and make for great watching, such as the jump at Pflanzgarten, the downhill esses into Brünnchen, and Breidscheid. The first two are close to each other and have good parking, the latter may now be blocked by walls on the bridge, but worth checking out if it's still viewable.
www.nurburgring.org.uk is a pretty good website with loads of info (and warnings), and a decent list of bend names (and a video with bend names that includes part of the GP circuit) here: http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/bendnames/index.php
We'll have to keep this thread alive, so we know what you decide to do and how it goes! Report back!
-Christian
When it finally dried up on Sunday the track closed for hours due to multiple simultaneous crashes (about 3 cars and 1 bike) fortunately none of
them fatal AFAIK ... but all of them clearly a result of "pilot error" with speeds exceeding the knowledge/ability of the drivers ...
I could only commiserate while watching the marshals take the driver of the wrecked Subaru to see the crash barriers he was going to have to pay for the replacement of because it lost control on the way out of the fuchsrohre ...
its not too be trifled with ...
but once you know the track ... there is no substitute, especially in a 911!
