View Poll Results: PCCB or Steel Brakes on your 991 GT3?
PCCBs, the car is for street driving only.
150
22.76%
PCCBs, and I'll track it that way too.
148
22.46%
PCCB, but buying steel rotors or system for track.
44
6.68%
Steel brakes, it's the way I roll.
317
48.10%
Voters: 659. You may not vote on this poll
PCCB or Steel on your 991 GT3?
07-08-2014, 10:40 AM
#91
07-08-2014, 10:41 AM
#92
Nordschleife Master
PSS? That's going to be a big step down from mpsc2, no? I know the party line seems to love pss, but put me in the camp that isn't in love. Datalogs on my BRZ show lateral Gs on pss to be no better than the oem Prius tires. I drove a cayman R on pss at Sonoma the other day, and didn't find grip at all.
07-08-2014, 10:52 AM
#93
PSS? That's going to be a big step down from mpsc2, no? I know the party line seems to love pss, but put me in the camp that isn't in love. Datalogs on my BRZ show lateral Gs on pss to be no better than the oem Prius tires. I drove a cayman R on pss at Sonoma the other day, and didn't find grip at all.
07-08-2014, 11:03 AM
#94
Nordschleife Master
You are right but in July and August in Dallas, the temps are over 100F (Ive tracked at 105 last August) and I am suspicious the PSC2 will degrade very quickly after 30 min sessions. What is your thought on softer compunds and hot weather? I know my Pirelli P Zeros wen to hell and the PSS lasted longer in the middle of our summer.
07-08-2014, 11:52 AM
#95
I'm with Joe - not a fan of PSS at all. Great street tire. That's the only good thing I can say.
I'm using the Yoko AD08R now and very happy. Almost the grip of the NT01 and much quieter on the street. Of course, with the bling-tastic 20" wheels, tire choices will be limited with the GT3. Good luck!!
I'm using the Yoko AD08R now and very happy. Almost the grip of the NT01 and much quieter on the street. Of course, with the bling-tastic 20" wheels, tire choices will be limited with the GT3. Good luck!!
07-08-2014, 02:36 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
NT01's are awesome but my guess is you'd have to buy new wheels to use them.
PSS are as stated above, great street tires. Not impressed on track. If you want trackable street tires, check and see if Hankook makes the RS3's in 991 sizing. MUCH better compromise tire.
PSS are as stated above, great street tires. Not impressed on track. If you want trackable street tires, check and see if Hankook makes the RS3's in 991 sizing. MUCH better compromise tire.
07-08-2014, 09:03 PM
#97
Burning Brakes
Would love to hear feedback on RS3's. They come in 265/20 and 305/20. Front fit should be fine. Allan
07-08-2014, 09:21 PM
#98
Thanks for all the input. I am fully aware of PSS's limitations on track. In 100-105 degree weather, tires fail quickly and softer compounds shred pretty fast. I bet that by late am in Texas, the asphalt is over 150F. I am not trying to get best times during July and August, I'm merely trying to get out and have fun. Sure, PSS is not a good track tire but with a tread wear of 300, it is certain to last longer than the PSC, Trofeo R, etc in that weather. Plus, it'll slide around more, so I can (hopefully) better learn how to catch the car. Being a cheaper set that lasts longer is good for two months.
07-09-2014, 12:55 AM
#99
Rennlist Member
Love the RS3's. If you spend more time on street than track and you don't want to go dedicated street/track wheels, they are a great option. I would say 90% of the grip of the regular MSCP's, 3x the wear, 1/2 the price; zero heat cycle issues. I've heard of some who've tracked them extensively and cycled them out but that seems contrary to their purpose (more street/less track). To me, they're cheap enough to try a set and if you hate them, sell 'em.
07-09-2014, 02:53 AM
#100
Drifting
I noticed this instantly driving a none pccb car vs my pccb car back to back on twisty roads. Very noticeable to me.
07-11-2014, 08:05 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
I actually drove a 911 turbo with steels before settling on the turbo s. Braking is very very different.
07-11-2014, 08:50 AM
#102
Burning Brakes
07-11-2014, 11:14 AM
#103
Burning Brakes
So much of the (perceived) difference in PCCB vs Steel performance is down to the initial bite point....
with the stock ceramics & pads running a rather more aggressive set up in this respect.
you can replicate with steels by switching to a pad with a stronger initial bite....say PFC08s.
also found the ensuing of interest in the PCCB vs Steel debate, herewith courtesy of fioran0 on Pistonheads:
"Heres a graph from an independent brake test done on various cars. Of interest here of course is the 911 with and without PCCB. 350mm PCCB with 6 pots, 330mm Steels with 4 pots IIRC.
Each cycle contains 5 brake stops from 100mph - 0mph with 20 second gaps between the stops.
The first stop in each cycle was done using approx half brake force (0.5G) to measure pedal and the next 4 stops were done with maximum braking force (hence the panic stop label) from 100mph to 0 mph to complete that cycle.
This complete cycle was then repeated until fade presented itself (or i presume boredom kicked in in the case of the Porsches and Corvette).
You will note that the Steel and PCCB cars perform the same and without fade even after almost 50 repeat stops. You can see the BMW progressively loses its brakes from 4th cycle onwards and the Nismo Z hits full fade midway through cycle 3. I believe the Porsches were on Pirelli P Zero, the Vette on Goodyear Eagle."
with the stock ceramics & pads running a rather more aggressive set up in this respect.
you can replicate with steels by switching to a pad with a stronger initial bite....say PFC08s.
also found the ensuing of interest in the PCCB vs Steel debate, herewith courtesy of fioran0 on Pistonheads:
"Heres a graph from an independent brake test done on various cars. Of interest here of course is the 911 with and without PCCB. 350mm PCCB with 6 pots, 330mm Steels with 4 pots IIRC.
Each cycle contains 5 brake stops from 100mph - 0mph with 20 second gaps between the stops.
The first stop in each cycle was done using approx half brake force (0.5G) to measure pedal and the next 4 stops were done with maximum braking force (hence the panic stop label) from 100mph to 0 mph to complete that cycle.
This complete cycle was then repeated until fade presented itself (or i presume boredom kicked in in the case of the Porsches and Corvette).
You will note that the Steel and PCCB cars perform the same and without fade even after almost 50 repeat stops. You can see the BMW progressively loses its brakes from 4th cycle onwards and the Nismo Z hits full fade midway through cycle 3. I believe the Porsches were on Pirelli P Zero, the Vette on Goodyear Eagle."
07-11-2014, 11:40 AM
#104
Nordschleife Master
So much of the (perceived) difference in PCCB vs Steel performance is down to the initial bite point....
with the stock ceramics & pads running a rather more aggressive set up in this respect.
you can replicate with steels by switching to a pad with a stronger initial bite....say PFC08s.
also found the ensuing of interest in the PCCB vs Steel debate, herewith courtesy of fioran0 on Pistonheads:
"Heres a graph from an independent brake test done on various cars. Of interest here of course is the 911 with and without PCCB. 350mm PCCB with 6 pots, 330mm Steels with 4 pots IIRC.
Each cycle contains 5 brake stops from 100mph - 0mph with 20 second gaps between the stops.
The first stop in each cycle was done using approx half brake force (0.5G) to measure pedal and the next 4 stops were done with maximum braking force (hence the panic stop label) from 100mph to 0 mph to complete that cycle.
This complete cycle was then repeated until fade presented itself (or i presume boredom kicked in in the case of the Porsches and Corvette).
You will note that the Steel and PCCB cars perform the same and without fade even after almost 50 repeat stops. You can see the BMW progressively loses its brakes from 4th cycle onwards and the Nismo Z hits full fade midway through cycle 3. I believe the Porsches were on Pirelli P Zero, the Vette on Goodyear Eagle."
with the stock ceramics & pads running a rather more aggressive set up in this respect.
you can replicate with steels by switching to a pad with a stronger initial bite....say PFC08s.
also found the ensuing of interest in the PCCB vs Steel debate, herewith courtesy of fioran0 on Pistonheads:
"Heres a graph from an independent brake test done on various cars. Of interest here of course is the 911 with and without PCCB. 350mm PCCB with 6 pots, 330mm Steels with 4 pots IIRC.
Each cycle contains 5 brake stops from 100mph - 0mph with 20 second gaps between the stops.
The first stop in each cycle was done using approx half brake force (0.5G) to measure pedal and the next 4 stops were done with maximum braking force (hence the panic stop label) from 100mph to 0 mph to complete that cycle.
This complete cycle was then repeated until fade presented itself (or i presume boredom kicked in in the case of the Porsches and Corvette).
You will note that the Steel and PCCB cars perform the same and without fade even after almost 50 repeat stops. You can see the BMW progressively loses its brakes from 4th cycle onwards and the Nismo Z hits full fade midway through cycle 3. I believe the Porsches were on Pirelli P Zero, the Vette on Goodyear Eagle."
FWIW, OEM PCCB pads are pagid P40. Not sure what oem pads are used for iron rotors.
Also, my personal opinion on PFC08 bite isnt that great compared other compounds I've used in the past like raybestos st43 and project mu club racer pads. I've been told that endless me20 and the new pfc11 pads bite much better than pfc08
07-11-2014, 11:56 AM
#105
So much of the (perceived) difference in PCCB vs Steel performance is down to the initial bite point.... with the stock ceramics & pads running a rather more aggressive set up in this respect. you can replicate with steels by switching to a pad with a stronger initial bite....say PFC08s. also found the ensuing of interest in the PCCB vs Steel debate, herewith courtesy of fioran0 on Pistonheads: "Heres a graph from an independent brake test done on various cars. Of interest here of course is the 911 with and without PCCB. 350mm PCCB with 6 pots, 330mm Steels with 4 pots IIRC. Each cycle contains 5 brake stops from 100mph - 0mph with 20 second gaps between the stops. The first stop in each cycle was done using approx half brake force (0.5G) to measure pedal and the next 4 stops were done with maximum braking force (hence the panic stop label) from 100mph to 0 mph to complete that cycle. This complete cycle was then repeated until fade presented itself (or i presume boredom kicked in in the case of the Porsches and Corvette). You will note that the Steel and PCCB cars perform the same and without fade even after almost 50 repeat stops. You can see the BMW progressively loses its brakes from 4th cycle onwards and the Nismo Z hits full fade midway through cycle 3. I believe the Porsches were on Pirelli P Zero, the Vette on Goodyear Eagle."
Is there a similar test with the current gen PCCBs?