Autoweek GT3 review. Purists get ready.
07-15-2013, 01:39 PM
#61
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What I want to know is: why is it anytime anyone says they'd like a manual, they are categorized as 'old school' or a 'purist'. Why is it that what I want can't just be because that's what I like?
Do all of you like the newest music on the radio? No? What are you...'old school'?
And why is it that everyone suddenly feels that 'Well, if Porsche is making it this way, it MUST be better?' Just because Porsche is forcing PDK down our throats, doesn't mean its what everyone wants, or what many of the 'current' GT3 audience wants... And what is the definition of 'better'? On paper, a GTR, or ZR1 is a 'better' car than a GT3. So is a F458 in many ways. So why not go out an buy those since they are 'better'?
I have no issue with Porsche building a wonderful and fast shifting PDK. Great! Wonderful. It's fast, it make an average driver go fast. Beautiful. But the original intention of the GT3 was to provide the true sports car driving enthusiast that TOTALLY connected feel to the drive...sure, I'll say it..the 'purity' of the drive. With PDK, you are letting the car electronically do the work. eh...
Again, there is certainly a place for the amazing technology that is this version of the PDK...but not in my GT3.. In my opinion (and to me, that's all that really matters) it defeats the whole purpose of having a GT3
sorry...and until someone is PAYING me to set lap records around a track, I would prefer the totally engaging experience and FUN factor of a manual.
Do all of you like the newest music on the radio? No? What are you...'old school'?
And why is it that everyone suddenly feels that 'Well, if Porsche is making it this way, it MUST be better?' Just because Porsche is forcing PDK down our throats, doesn't mean its what everyone wants, or what many of the 'current' GT3 audience wants... And what is the definition of 'better'? On paper, a GTR, or ZR1 is a 'better' car than a GT3. So is a F458 in many ways. So why not go out an buy those since they are 'better'?
I have no issue with Porsche building a wonderful and fast shifting PDK. Great! Wonderful. It's fast, it make an average driver go fast. Beautiful. But the original intention of the GT3 was to provide the true sports car driving enthusiast that TOTALLY connected feel to the drive...sure, I'll say it..the 'purity' of the drive. With PDK, you are letting the car electronically do the work. eh...
Again, there is certainly a place for the amazing technology that is this version of the PDK...but not in my GT3.. In my opinion (and to me, that's all that really matters) it defeats the whole purpose of having a GT3
sorry...and until someone is PAYING me to set lap records around a track, I would prefer the totally engaging experience and FUN factor of a manual.
07-15-2013, 01:52 PM
#62
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Sorry for the rant guys...I had just spent an entire weekend with a guy that tried to convince me that I was wrong and that PDK was the way to go. He wouldn't accept that maybe, just maybe, I'm not interested in how fast it can shift or how easy it is to drive...maybe I LIKED a manual. Nope, I was wrong. Then I saw this thread.
Oh...and the reason for his excitement? He can't drive a manual - never learned. He's been "upset" that Porsche would make a car (GT3) that people like him can't own. I reminded him that he's a lousy driver too, so he SHOULDN'T own a GT3 anyway...
and you are correct...I won't be owning one
We've put 43,000 miles on our '04 in the past 2 years and have loved every mile of it. Might move to a '10 one of these days, but that's it.BTW, nice avatar.
07-15-2013, 02:29 PM
#63
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So here's a question I posed on the 6-GT3 forum: would all of you be so interested in it if it was called something OTHER than GT3? What if they called this the GTS...would you be as interested?
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
Probably true, but Porsche wanted us to have amoeba shaped headlights too and we see what happened with that...
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07-15-2013, 03:01 PM
#64
Boy thats a stretch. I never said driving a pdk require no skill, and I never said anything about being afraid to learn a new skill. I've driven a 991 with PDK and came away with the feeling that I had just cheated myself out of a good drive. No 'feel' to the driving experience, no engagement...just along for the ride... Feeling for me was closer to driving an AMG Mercedes than it was to a Porsche.
So here's a question I posed on the 6-GT3 forum: would all of you be so interested in it if it was called something OTHER than GT3? What if they called this the GTS...would you be as interested?
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
Thanks
Probably true, but Porsche wanted us to have amoeba shaped headlights too and we see what happened with that...
So here's a question I posed on the 6-GT3 forum: would all of you be so interested in it if it was called something OTHER than GT3? What if they called this the GTS...would you be as interested?
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
Thanks
Probably true, but Porsche wanted us to have amoeba shaped headlights too and we see what happened with that...
The real problem is that while the new car is also a fantastic deal -- it's in no way shape or form the successor to the last GT3. The new GT3 is a completely different car made for completely different customers - I think that's blatantly obvious in reading through the comments. The last GT3 was in its own class -- there really was no competition on the market for what it was.
The new GT3 really is the new GTS-R and if that's the car you're in the market to buy -- it's a fantastic deal.
I think if Porsche ever gets around to using this new motor in their entire line of 911 racing cars from the CUPs to the RSR's and options a 6-speed manual -- it will gain a lot more acceptance amongst fans of the previous gen.
07-15-2013, 04:04 PM
#65
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The last GT3 was a fantastic deal. You were buying a detuned street-legal race car for a fantastic price which explains their amazing resale values. A 996 GT3 is worth more than a 996 Turbo in similar condition. The new GT3 is also a fantastic deal -- in my opinion it's 80-90% of a 458 Italia at 50% of the price.
The real problem is that while the new car is also a fantastic deal -- it's in no way shape or form the successor to the last GT3. The new GT3 is a completely different car made for completely different customers - I think that's blatantly obvious in reading through the comments. The last GT3 was in its own class -- there really was no competition on the market for what it was.
The new GT3 really is the new GTS-R and if that's the car you're in the market to buy -- it's a fantastic deal.
I think if Porsche ever gets around to using this new motor in their entire line of 911 racing cars from the CUPs to the RSR's and options a 6-speed manual -- it will gain a lot more acceptance amongst fans of the previous gen.
The real problem is that while the new car is also a fantastic deal -- it's in no way shape or form the successor to the last GT3. The new GT3 is a completely different car made for completely different customers - I think that's blatantly obvious in reading through the comments. The last GT3 was in its own class -- there really was no competition on the market for what it was.
The new GT3 really is the new GTS-R and if that's the car you're in the market to buy -- it's a fantastic deal.
I think if Porsche ever gets around to using this new motor in their entire line of 911 racing cars from the CUPs to the RSR's and options a 6-speed manual -- it will gain a lot more acceptance amongst fans of the previous gen.
But the GT3 is definitely a great deal. Based on what I've payd for my brand new 04 GT3 in 2004 and what I've been quoted for a 2014 + all the new technology, performance........ it's almost like I feel I was riped back then
.
07-15-2013, 04:20 PM
#66
I'm not assuming anything. Porsche made it clear by making the 2014 GT3 street car not follow the formula of the 2014 GT3 Cup as the previous cars had.
07-15-2013, 04:43 PM
#67
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Inarguable indeed but that is a totally different argument. Time will tell if the 2015 Cup cars come with RWS, 9A1 DI based motor...... Based on what I've heard, the 2014 cup is still with the mezger engine for the last year.
07-15-2013, 07:28 PM
#68
Race Car
The resemblance between Cup cars past, present or future and GT3s past, present or future are a tribute to Porsche's marketing effectiveness.
07-15-2013, 08:07 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
So here's a question I posed on the 6-GT3 forum: would all of you be so interested in it if it was called something OTHER than GT3? What if they called this the GTS...would you be as interested?
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
I am not sure you understand your post. When you say that PDK electronically does the driving that clearly implies the driver has little or no input with respect to the performance of the car. PDK shifts when instructed by the driver. It does not steer the car nor does it provide the braking, speed and apex. The driver does that. With manual it is the same process EXCEPT instead of engaging a paddle you depress the clutch. Oh and in some instances there may be a heel and toe contortion with your right foot but it does not happen often. Everything is the same EXCEPT the PDK allows you to go faster in performance driving.
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
I am not sure you understand your post. When you say that PDK electronically does the driving that clearly implies the driver has little or no input with respect to the performance of the car. PDK shifts when instructed by the driver. It does not steer the car nor does it provide the braking, speed and apex. The driver does that. With manual it is the same process EXCEPT instead of engaging a paddle you depress the clutch. Oh and in some instances there may be a heel and toe contortion with your right foot but it does not happen often. Everything is the same EXCEPT the PDK allows you to go faster in performance driving.
07-15-2013, 08:16 PM
#71
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So here's a question I posed on the 6-GT3 forum: would all of you be so interested in it if it was called something OTHER than GT3? What if they called this the GTS...would you be as interested?
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
I am not sure you understand your post. When you say that PDK electronically does the driving that clearly implies the driver has little or no input with respect to the performance of the car. PDK shifts when instructed by the driver. It does not steer the car nor does it provide the braking, speed and apex. The driver does that. With manual it is the same process EXCEPT instead of engaging a paddle you depress the clutch. Oh and in some instances there may be a heel and toe contortion with your right foot but it does not happen often. Everything is the same EXCEPT the PDK allows you to go faster in performance driving.
Why did you buy a GT3 to begin with? It's not the fastest car out there.... heck, not even the fastest Porsche....it's certainly not the best 'deal'... so why?
I am not sure you understand your post. When you say that PDK electronically does the driving that clearly implies the driver has little or no input with respect to the performance of the car. PDK shifts when instructed by the driver. It does not steer the car nor does it provide the braking, speed and apex. The driver does that. With manual it is the same process EXCEPT instead of engaging a paddle you depress the clutch. Oh and in some instances there may be a heel and toe contortion with your right foot but it does not happen often. Everything is the same EXCEPT the PDK allows you to go faster in performance driving.
07-15-2013, 08:43 PM
#72
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but can't you put the PDK in D, and let it do all the shifting? That's not being very involved, and I suspect some will drive it that way.
CH was doing that during his road test.
CH was doing that during his road test.
07-15-2013, 09:08 PM
#73
Three Wheelin'
I recently had the chance to do a lap of Sonoma raceway with Porsche driving school instructor (as part of the Porsche roadshow thing). He had the PDK in auto mode and he said auto mode in the new PDK was so good it was as fast or faster than the manual mode. So unless, you are looking for "driving involvement", manual mode seems pretty pointless.
07-15-2013, 09:23 PM
#74
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I had read that elsewhere. An automatic is an automatic no matter what you call it, or how it works. I'm just not interested in it.
A C7 ZO6 is second on my list, but i'm going to wait out Porsche to see what they're going to do. They seem pretty set on the PDK.
They seem to forget that not everybody is going to club race, or drag race a GT3, and a few tenths here and there doesn't matter. Some of us like to drive manuals, because that's what we love to drive.
A C7 ZO6 is second on my list, but i'm going to wait out Porsche to see what they're going to do. They seem pretty set on the PDK.
They seem to forget that not everybody is going to club race, or drag race a GT3, and a few tenths here and there doesn't matter. Some of us like to drive manuals, because that's what we love to drive.
07-15-2013, 09:26 PM
#75
Race Director
I recently had the chance to do a lap of Sonoma raceway with Porsche driving school instructor (as part of the Porsche roadshow thing). He had the PDK in auto mode and he said auto mode in the new PDK was so good it was as fast or faster than the manual mode. So unless, you are looking for "driving involvement", manual mode seems pretty pointless.