Automobile Review
07-09-2013, 11:18 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
This is not about ***** size now,is it...?!
What us manual supporters are saying is simple :
And it's all in Porsche's advertising of the GT3 for years...I haven't seen one commercial with this car on the street,only track,yet it's a street legal car that has just become easier to live with in that environment on a day to day basis....so my point is...how many days throughout the year will you be using this car on the track? 20-30 days?! Some more than others,but the rest will be used on the street...weekends,for fun...this is a car for the pleasure of driving,it's not practical,you don't need it,you can live without it...
I have no doubt that in a track environment leaving the car in Auto and driven at 10/10ths will be plenty challenging and fun,but driven on the street will probably get boring fast...
What us manual supporters are saying is simple :
And it's all in Porsche's advertising of the GT3 for years...I haven't seen one commercial with this car on the street,only track,yet it's a street legal car that has just become easier to live with in that environment on a day to day basis....so my point is...how many days throughout the year will you be using this car on the track? 20-30 days?! Some more than others,but the rest will be used on the street...weekends,for fun...this is a car for the pleasure of driving,it's not practical,you don't need it,you can live without it...
I have no doubt that in a track environment leaving the car in Auto and driven at 10/10ths will be plenty challenging and fun,but driven on the street will probably get boring fast...
07-09-2013, 11:34 AM
#18
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And it's all in Porsche's advertising of the GT3 for years...I haven't seen one commercial with this car on the street,only track,yet it's a street legal car that has just become easier to live with in that environment on a day to day basis....so my point is...how many days throughout the year will you be using this car on the track? 20-30 days?! Some more than others,but the rest will be used on the street...weekends,for fun...this is a car for the pleasure of driving,it's not practical,you don't need it,you can live without it...
I have no doubt that in a track environment leaving the car in Auto and driven at 10/10ths will be plenty challenging and fun,but driven on the street will probably get boring fast...
I have no doubt that in a track environment leaving the car in Auto and driven at 10/10ths will be plenty challenging and fun,but driven on the street will probably get boring fast...
Everyone will have to make up their own mind on that one, but the gearshift lag (lag b/t input and actual shift, not the speed of the shift itself) is what I have found most objectionable about auto manuals. It made me feel disconnected from the car, much like a laggy automatic transmission in a GM pickup.
Suttcliff's video showed near instantaneous response from a click of the paddle to shifting. That addresses a lot of my concern.
But in isolation, that's only part of the equation. Reviewers are saying wickedly fast throttle response. Various 911's I've had over the years have not been a willing to rev as, say, my BMWs. Then we have, by all reports, steering response never seen in a 911.
So now we get near instant PDK shifts, instant turn-in w/o all that typical 911 understeer, and crisp, quick engine response.
I believe the car will prove that, looked at as a whole, holistically, it will be unparalleled. Which is why I'm on the list.
07-09-2013, 11:48 AM
#19
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This is not about ***** size now,is it...?!
What us manual supporters are saying is simple :
And it's all in Porsche's advertising of the GT3 for years...I haven't seen one commercial with this car on the street,only track,yet it's a street legal car that has just become easier to live with in that environment on a day to day basis....so my point is...how many days throughout the year will you be using this car on the track? 20-30 days?! Some more than others,but the rest will be used on the street...weekends,for fun...this is a car for the pleasure of driving,it's not practical,you don't need it,you can live without it...
I have no doubt that in a track environment leaving the car in Auto and driven at 10/10ths will be plenty challenging and fun,but driven on the street will probably get boring fast...
What us manual supporters are saying is simple :
And it's all in Porsche's advertising of the GT3 for years...I haven't seen one commercial with this car on the street,only track,yet it's a street legal car that has just become easier to live with in that environment on a day to day basis....so my point is...how many days throughout the year will you be using this car on the track? 20-30 days?! Some more than others,but the rest will be used on the street...weekends,for fun...this is a car for the pleasure of driving,it's not practical,you don't need it,you can live without it...
I have no doubt that in a track environment leaving the car in Auto and driven at 10/10ths will be plenty challenging and fun,but driven on the street will probably get boring fast...
07-09-2013, 12:12 PM
#20
Race Director
interesting question is what more fun on the street, a Carrera at 5/10 or a GT3 at 3/10?
Frankly my old 997 was more fun (go kartish) at lower speeds than my 991.
Frankly my old 997 was more fun (go kartish) at lower speeds than my 991.
07-09-2013, 12:24 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
But here comes Porsche contradicting themselves and presenting this car as a more street usable GT3 than ever before,which obviously increased their sales and expanded demand from new customers that weren't interested before. Most of these new customers do not find themselves on this board and have no interest knowing and/or discussing technical details about the car's performance,track etc. They'll buy it,enjoy the look and sound,get a few tickets and dump it. Is this the category Porsche is aiming for with the new GT3?
About street driving,the current GT3 is plenty fun driven on some nice twisty roads and people will continue this trend with the new one and I'm sure it will be fun as well,doesn't matter what sane speeds mean or not,it's all relative...and we all obey street rules,no question about it...will it have been more fun with a manual on those twisty roads? 100% YES!!! No question about it!
So if we're referring to where people will mostly be using the GT3....street and some track,giving a transmission choice is a no brainer.
Spec a 991 S or C4S with power kit and goodies and you're at 150K,again...getting the GT3 instead is a no brainer...heavy track user or not.
07-09-2013, 12:32 PM
#24
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Nah. I'm an oddity. The older I get the more I seek raw, undiluted experiences in my toys. Hence the recent BAC Mono reservation. If I'm going to do paddles they're going to be real, not a gussied up automatic in disguise.
07-09-2013, 01:42 PM
#25
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Valid point, Mike. But please don't bother defending it, it's a waste of time and effort.
It is crystal clear people will always read and interpret a review in the way they want to and here that shows that they are not only blaming the PDK-S for not being a manual, but being too good at being an automatic too, since it can be left at its own devices and not **** you off in the process.
I recall the SMG gearbox in my E60 M5 vividly, which was so terrible in automatic mode that I was always flappy pedaling myself, even if I sometimes didn't want to for a short moment (phone (conference) call, conversation with passengers). But the fact that this PDK-S seems to be "pure magic" and therefore could comfortably be used in automatic mode if one would want to from time to time is hardly bad news, isn't it?
The problem is that it's a double-edged sword and a battle that simply cannot be won (for some). According to all the reviews so far the PDK-S rocks in 'manual' mode, so that's a tick in the box. However:
- If the PDK-S would suck in auto-mode, it would be a crap gearbox nonetheless and the voices shouting for a MT would soar even stronger!
- If the PDK-S would be great in auto-mode, it might actually compel drivers into using it that way from time to time, if they wish... which is very wrong for a GT3 and thus the voices shouting for a MT... and so on.
Let me repeat my earlier statement somewhere on this forum to avoid be chastised instantly: I would have ordered my 991 GT3 in MT if I could. But, having owned various flappy pedaled cars, I always decided to drive them as a MT, either because I was indirectly 'forced' to (that M5 again) or just because it was so much more fun (GT-R) than leaving it in automatic mode.
If owning a PDK-S GT3 pushes me into the "less skilled driver" owners group now as compared to 5 years ago when I had my .1 RS, so be it. Since I'm not making my money with driving, quite the contrary actually, I couldn't care less!
It is crystal clear people will always read and interpret a review in the way they want to and here that shows that they are not only blaming the PDK-S for not being a manual, but being too good at being an automatic too, since it can be left at its own devices and not **** you off in the process.
I recall the SMG gearbox in my E60 M5 vividly, which was so terrible in automatic mode that I was always flappy pedaling myself, even if I sometimes didn't want to for a short moment (phone (conference) call, conversation with passengers). But the fact that this PDK-S seems to be "pure magic" and therefore could comfortably be used in automatic mode if one would want to from time to time is hardly bad news, isn't it?
The problem is that it's a double-edged sword and a battle that simply cannot be won (for some). According to all the reviews so far the PDK-S rocks in 'manual' mode, so that's a tick in the box. However:
- If the PDK-S would suck in auto-mode, it would be a crap gearbox nonetheless and the voices shouting for a MT would soar even stronger!
- If the PDK-S would be great in auto-mode, it might actually compel drivers into using it that way from time to time, if they wish... which is very wrong for a GT3 and thus the voices shouting for a MT... and so on.
Let me repeat my earlier statement somewhere on this forum to avoid be chastised instantly: I would have ordered my 991 GT3 in MT if I could. But, having owned various flappy pedaled cars, I always decided to drive them as a MT, either because I was indirectly 'forced' to (that M5 again) or just because it was so much more fun (GT-R) than leaving it in automatic mode.
If owning a PDK-S GT3 pushes me into the "less skilled driver" owners group now as compared to 5 years ago when I had my .1 RS, so be it. Since I'm not making my money with driving, quite the contrary actually, I couldn't care less!
07-09-2013, 03:59 PM
#26
Race Director
07-09-2013, 04:02 PM
#27
Race Director
Sure you do, and I'm sure it's for a good reason (less weight) not because you're afraid the radio is going to make you turn it on even when you don't want to! 
Just guessing, of course, but it didn't look to me as though CH and Suttcliff were bored driving on the street.....
Just guessing, of course, but it didn't look to me as though CH and Suttcliff were bored driving on the street.....
07-09-2013, 04:41 PM
#28
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Let me clarify. I think the PDK box will be a riot on track and driven in anger on the street. But those two times are a vast minority of the miles driven. It will prove out to be a great car if, despite the loss of the clutch pedal, the totality of the driving experience is compelling even when doing mundane things like running errands around town.
07-09-2013, 04:57 PM
#29
Race Director
Let me clarify. I think the PDK box will be a riot on track and driven in anger on the street. But those two times are a vast minority of the miles driven. It will prove out to be a great car if, despite the loss of the clutch pedal, the totality of the driving experience is compelling even when doing mundane things like running errands around town.
