VW Group sure is confused about Paddles vs. Manual
#16
Rennlist Member
Exactly my sentiments when I read that the Gallardo replacement will have an open-gate manual. We'll see soon enough at Frankfurt.
#17
Rennlist Member
If true, its hilarious how some manufacturers are waking up and offering manual to get some enthusiasts back on board just as Porsche are falling asleep behind the wheel and turning their backs on that crowd sort after by others...
Last edited by 911rox; 06-18-2013 at 09:37 AM.
#19
Rennlist Member
Yup, sounds like Gallardo specs - 550-570hp, 3,400lbs in RWD MT form. Although I will be surprised if Audi ditches quattro, even for a special model.
I will be surprised by that as well. Supposedly the last Lamborghinis with manual transmissions are being built next month.
#20
Race Director
if the R8 GT + w/ a stick, RWD, and about 3500lb comes near $150k , I'd be very interested.
Separately, while reviewing a Caddy, Leno comments "Porsche has given up on the manual..." :
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/c...ml#item=292652
Separately, while reviewing a Caddy, Leno comments "Porsche has given up on the manual..." :
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/c...ml#item=292652
#21
Many assume that the choice to go PDK in the GT3 was strictly a marketing decision. What about the possiblility that the development team actually tested both MT and PDK, were free to go either way as far as VW was concerned, but evaluated and chose a revised PDK as the best overall match for the high revving engine in the 991 GT3? The Audi, with it's V10 is a very different animal. Maybe they're not confused at all. Just sayin'.....
The problem is that there is only one transmission in the Porsche inventory that can be physically fit to the 991 GT3, and that is the arguably terrible new 7 speed manual. The been-counters required this transmission to share the vast majority of its components with the PDK, which I'm sure resulted in significant saving across the line and got some suit a promotion. Unfortunately while the engineers are proud that they were able to accomplish this, the complex mechanism that allows the automated gearbox to be shifted manually has resulted in what Evo called "one of the 5 worst manual gearboxes of all time". (Clearly they have not driven a slightly worn 915, but that's beside the point...)
Preuninger's only options were to take this compromised gearbox and make it work, or to develop something new: preferably a slick, lightweight 6 speed. I can imagine the meeting in which he pleaded for the funds to do just that: "You want to spend how much? On an option that worldwide will have a 20% take-up rate on an already low volume car? And it will be slower?"
Predictable that he was told to make the new 7 speed work... Unfortunately even his engineer's magic goes only so far. When the drive-off came between the manual and the PDK the conclusion was foregone.
So as great as the rest of the new GT3 is (and I have long expected the rest of it would turn out to be pretty great) the most hardcore enthusiasts will forever lament the fact that it could have been much better still.
Porsche bean counters: the GT3 is a car for real enthusiasts, not just a cash-cow. Every manual GT3 you would have made less money on would have counterbalanced a boat-load of soccer mom piloted SUVs. Shame on you for cutting this particular corner in the name of profit- turning your back on the most passionate drivers haunts you.
I do see two opportunities for redemption: A) fix it for the RS (it's never too late), or B) a perfectly good 6 speed already exists for the Cayman.
Last edited by Petevb; 06-19-2013 at 04:11 PM.
#23
Lamborghini Gallardo replacement 'to launch in 2014' with manual gearbox...
(17 June 2013)
Lamborghini Gallardo replacement to launch in 2014 -- Autocar link
(17 June 2013)
Lamborghini is set to continue its 50th anniversary celebrations with the unveiling of a new concept car at the Frankfurt motor show in September that closely previews its upcoming Gallardo replacement, sources close to the Italian supercar maker have revealed.
The new two-seater, the production version of which is set to go on sale in the UK during the second half of next year, follows the example of its predecessor in sharing key components, including a lightweight carbonfibre and aluminium spaceframe structure, with the replacement for today’s Audi R8, due in 2015.
The new car, which carries the internal codename LP724, is said to have grown marginally in length to almost 4500mm, or 16mm longer than its predecessor, with width and height remaining close to the 1900mm and 1165mm respectively of the Gallardo.
Together with an edgy new exterior, the Gallardo replacement is set to adopt a new interior layout that, with a slight increase in wheelbase over its predecessor at 2600mm, will offer added levels of accommodation.
Despite harbouring initial plans to base its new car around a contemporary carbonfibre monocoque similar to that of the Aventador, Lamborghini has been forced to follow a more conservative route dictated by parent company Audi and its second-generation R8 supercar.
Both cars have been conceived around a modular spacefame. This will allow them to share vital components, including selected parts of a new, lightweight carbonfibre and aluminium structure that, Autocar can confirm, weighs 198kg in the form to be used by the Audi. That is 24kg less than the all-aluminium structure used by the current R8.
Despite using a similar structure, the R8 and the Gallardo replacement will receive different wheelbases. The Audi’s is 30mm longer than the Lamborghini’s for greater levels of interior accommodation, including stowage space behind the seats. By using a shorter wheelbase than the Audi, the structure of the new Lamborghini is a further 3kg lighter, at just 195kg.
The new spaceframe structure will be clothed in a body that uses a combination of carbonfibre-reinforced plastic and aluminium panels. The move is aimed at bringing the new mid-engined Lamborghini to the scales at less than 1500kg — the official kerb weight of today’s four-wheel-drive Gallardo.
Power will come from an updated version of the Gallardo’s naturally aspirated 5.2-litre V10 petrol engine. It will be tuned to deliver close to 600bhp and 400lb ft of torque in standard guise, while complying with stringent new EU6 emissions regulations set to come into force next year.
The reworked engine will be mated to a standard six-speed manual gearbox, while the new seven-speed dual-clutch automatic from the R8 will be optional, replacing the current Gallardo’s six-speed automated manual ’box.
Alongside standard four-wheel-drive models, Lamborghini also plans selected rear-wheel-drive versions of its new supercar.
Meanwhile, rumours suggest that the Gallardo replacement will take the name Cabrera. In keeping with Lamborghini tradition, it refers to a line of Spanish bulls whose lineage can be traced to other famous breeds, including the Miura, Gallardo, Navarra, Veragua and Vistahermosa-Parladé.
The new two-seater, the production version of which is set to go on sale in the UK during the second half of next year, follows the example of its predecessor in sharing key components, including a lightweight carbonfibre and aluminium spaceframe structure, with the replacement for today’s Audi R8, due in 2015.
The new car, which carries the internal codename LP724, is said to have grown marginally in length to almost 4500mm, or 16mm longer than its predecessor, with width and height remaining close to the 1900mm and 1165mm respectively of the Gallardo.
Together with an edgy new exterior, the Gallardo replacement is set to adopt a new interior layout that, with a slight increase in wheelbase over its predecessor at 2600mm, will offer added levels of accommodation.
Despite harbouring initial plans to base its new car around a contemporary carbonfibre monocoque similar to that of the Aventador, Lamborghini has been forced to follow a more conservative route dictated by parent company Audi and its second-generation R8 supercar.
Both cars have been conceived around a modular spacefame. This will allow them to share vital components, including selected parts of a new, lightweight carbonfibre and aluminium structure that, Autocar can confirm, weighs 198kg in the form to be used by the Audi. That is 24kg less than the all-aluminium structure used by the current R8.
Despite using a similar structure, the R8 and the Gallardo replacement will receive different wheelbases. The Audi’s is 30mm longer than the Lamborghini’s for greater levels of interior accommodation, including stowage space behind the seats. By using a shorter wheelbase than the Audi, the structure of the new Lamborghini is a further 3kg lighter, at just 195kg.
The new spaceframe structure will be clothed in a body that uses a combination of carbonfibre-reinforced plastic and aluminium panels. The move is aimed at bringing the new mid-engined Lamborghini to the scales at less than 1500kg — the official kerb weight of today’s four-wheel-drive Gallardo.
Power will come from an updated version of the Gallardo’s naturally aspirated 5.2-litre V10 petrol engine. It will be tuned to deliver close to 600bhp and 400lb ft of torque in standard guise, while complying with stringent new EU6 emissions regulations set to come into force next year.
The reworked engine will be mated to a standard six-speed manual gearbox, while the new seven-speed dual-clutch automatic from the R8 will be optional, replacing the current Gallardo’s six-speed automated manual ’box.
Alongside standard four-wheel-drive models, Lamborghini also plans selected rear-wheel-drive versions of its new supercar.
Meanwhile, rumours suggest that the Gallardo replacement will take the name Cabrera. In keeping with Lamborghini tradition, it refers to a line of Spanish bulls whose lineage can be traced to other famous breeds, including the Miura, Gallardo, Navarra, Veragua and Vistahermosa-Parladé.
#24
Nordschleife Master
I think the GT development team did evaluate the manual vs the PDK, and did find the manual wanting. However I'll still contend the manual's fate was sealed by the bean-counters. I think Herr Preuninger played the hand he was dealt as best he could, and the blame for this serious error in judgement likely lies elsewhere.
The problem is that there is only one transmission in the Porsche inventory that can be physically fit to the 991 GT3, and that is the arguably terrible new 7 speed manual. The been-counters required this transmission to share the vast majority of its components with the PDK, which I'm sure resulted in significant saving across the line and got some suit a promotion. Unfortunately while the engineers are proud that they were able to accomplish this, the complex mechanism that allows the automated gearbox to be shifted manually has resulted in what Evo called "one of the 5 worst manual gearboxes of all time". (Clearly they have not driven a slightly worn 915, but that's beside the point...)
Preuninger's only options were to take this compromised gearbox and make it work, or to develop something new: preferably a slick, lightweight 6 speed. I can imagine the meeting in which he pleaded for the funds to do just that: "You want to spend how much? On an option that worldwide will have a 20% take-up rate on an already low volume car? And it will be slower?"
Predictable that he was told to make the new 7 speed work... Unfortunately even his engineer's magic goes only so far. When the drive-off came between the manual and the PDK the conclusion was foregone.
So as great as the rest of the new GT3 is (and I have long expected the rest of it would turn out to be pretty great) the most hardcore enthusiasts will forever lament the fact that it could have been much better still.
Porsche bean counters: the GT3 is a car for real enthusiasts, not just a cash-cow. Every manual GT3 you would have made less money on would have counterbalanced a boat-load of soccer mom piloted SUVs. Shame on you for cutting this particular corner in the name of profit- turning your back on the most passionate drivers haunts you.
I do see two opportunities for redemption: A) fix it for the RS (it's never too late), or B) a perfectly good 6 speed already exists for the Cayman.
The problem is that there is only one transmission in the Porsche inventory that can be physically fit to the 991 GT3, and that is the arguably terrible new 7 speed manual. The been-counters required this transmission to share the vast majority of its components with the PDK, which I'm sure resulted in significant saving across the line and got some suit a promotion. Unfortunately while the engineers are proud that they were able to accomplish this, the complex mechanism that allows the automated gearbox to be shifted manually has resulted in what Evo called "one of the 5 worst manual gearboxes of all time". (Clearly they have not driven a slightly worn 915, but that's beside the point...)
Preuninger's only options were to take this compromised gearbox and make it work, or to develop something new: preferably a slick, lightweight 6 speed. I can imagine the meeting in which he pleaded for the funds to do just that: "You want to spend how much? On an option that worldwide will have a 20% take-up rate on an already low volume car? And it will be slower?"
Predictable that he was told to make the new 7 speed work... Unfortunately even his engineer's magic goes only so far. When the drive-off came between the manual and the PDK the conclusion was foregone.
So as great as the rest of the new GT3 is (and I have long expected the rest of it would turn out to be pretty great) the most hardcore enthusiasts will forever lament the fact that it could have been much better still.
Porsche bean counters: the GT3 is a car for real enthusiasts, not just a cash-cow. Every manual GT3 you would have made less money on would have counterbalanced a boat-load of soccer mom piloted SUVs. Shame on you for cutting this particular corner in the name of profit- turning your back on the most passionate drivers haunts you.
I do see two opportunities for redemption: A) fix it for the RS (it's never too late), or B) a perfectly good 6 speed already exists for the Cayman.
IMO they could've offered a transmission choice and be plenty profitable! Come on people,it just doesn't make sense!
#25
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Of course using either the Cayman's or Gallardo's gearboxes means the wheels will be turning the wrong direction
#26
Rennlist Member
I think the Stasis superchargers come with warranty (sold through Audi dealers).
540hp and 435 ft-lbs with 4 years/50k mile warranty
http://www.stasisengineering.com/sig...8-42-2008-2013
540hp and 435 ft-lbs with 4 years/50k mile warranty
http://www.stasisengineering.com/sig...8-42-2008-2013
The only drawback is $ ($55K+ for the V10 conversion).
#27
A friend of mine has the first supercharged V10 converstion. Epic- leaves strips from all 4 hoosier A6s for 100 yards at the autocross.
#28
Rennlist Member
But if it does turn out to be true, as Petevb suggested, it bodes well for the possibility of a manual in the 960...
#29
Goodbye Porsche then and welcome "raging bull" from bella Italia.
#30
Porsche was terribly slow in adopting the paddle shift. Stubborn is how I would describe Porsche attitude towards its customer's demand. Heck, the pdk still comes with stupid buttons instead of real paddles. No idea why they ditched the manual as the PDK isn't all that great compare to Ferrari's dual clutch.
I am not so impressed with R8 V8. On the track, it was slower than a RS5.
I am not so impressed with R8 V8. On the track, it was slower than a RS5.