New Member Intro: 991 GT3 - Summer 2014-European Delivery.
05-24-2013, 09:50 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
New Member Intro: 991 GT3 - Summer 2014-European Delivery.
Hello everyone,
I walked into a porsche dealer to discuss the benefits of older gt3's and which year to look at, thinking I would spend $70k-$80k, and was very smoothly talked into securing a waiting list spot for the 991 gt3 by an excellent sales guy. First time ive even considered purchasing a new car, but Brett (salesperson) told me all about how I shouldn't touch cars which were out of warranty, and how CPO cars are the only way to go, etc etc. Anyway... push comes to cajole... and I put a deposit down on a new gt3.
My porsche experience is definitely "antiquated"... My dad owned a 1961 356b cabriolet and a 1964 356c coupe... wish we'd kept them as they have appreciated massively since the 90's... but that's life. Beautiful cars, and not expensive at the time... almost unattainable now. My younger brother also owns a 550 Beck Spyder replica... this one was actually used as a stand-in for Ralph Lauren's car in the Discovery channel special they did on his car collection... needless to say, it's very authentic looking... but it's not a porsche. So, i've always dreamed about a gt3, and was looking for something with a truly pure driving experience. A lotus elise for $40k would do the trick... somehow I let myself be talked into a 991 gt3 for $150k... slippery slope.
If I look at depreciation, I'm thinking i can own this for a year or two... lose approx $10k/year on it, and walk away from a great experience with relatively minimal loss to my wallet. I'm 35, don't have a family yet, live a relatively frugal life... and want to enjoy something truly special before I have to focus on other big expenditures which would preclude crazy stuff like this. My intentions for owning this car? I live in SF, I drive a stationwagon as a daily driver... so I am buying this car for special occasions. I definitely want to track this car some, or there is no point in getting a gt3. I do plenty of motorcycle track days, and I need something with metal around it. I'm looking to get away from a very nasty (hee hee) motorcycling habit, (3 ducatis) and hopefully this car will give me the adrenaline and driving pleasure I want, while not letting me kill/maim myself any further.
I was originally looking at the alfa 4c but I feel the price is just not justified by that car.
Anyway, I've put my deposit down and the link to my tentative build is below. i've tried to be indulgent and conservative at the same time with my options list... I looked at what would make the interior pleasant, without getting into crazy stuff like leather vent slats. I'm thinking about resale value, and also the fact that this is the most expensive car I've ever purchased by a long shot, in fact, I've always purchased used and kept my cars under $40k. Now, I've specced a car with approx $15k in options... the list of options may change slightly... but overall it's cohesive without being absurd... if $15k in options isn't absurd already. Wanted a red-accent color scheme, so deviating red stitching and red dials and belts... minimal leather in interior, with heated seats and some ambient lighting which IMO really makes the driving pleasure at night. On the outside, i thought dark headlights would look really good with a dark car, and I'm deciding between basic black, or this dark blue for an extra $700 and change. Brett told me the lifting system is a MUST... which is why I can't even order this until October 2013 as the lifting system isn't available until then. So, this puts me in approx July 2014... plenty of time to continue to invest well, or lose all my money messing around with stocks ;-D. My delivery date will be summer 2014, and I will be picking it up in Germany, which works well as I'm from Milan, Italy originally and I go home for a few weeks during the summer to visit family. My vision is to have my dad buy a one-way train ticket from Milan when i visit him, and have him meet me at the factory... total surprise for him.. and drive it home together. he never could indulge in certain fantasies... so maybe I can share this one with him.
http://www.porsche-code.com/PEFENU25
I look forward to everyone's advice and banter as I join this forum.
best regards,
Alessandro.
PS. I'm currently trying to decide between a low mileage lease which the dealer suggested as in California we pay 9% tax, or financing. Seems like with as little depreciation as these cars go through in first 1-2 years, that even with paying $12k in taxes up front, it would make sense to finance the car as I'll put probably 5k miles/year on it, and then sell it at close to msrp for it after a year or two, minus what I paid in taxes. thoughts?
I walked into a porsche dealer to discuss the benefits of older gt3's and which year to look at, thinking I would spend $70k-$80k, and was very smoothly talked into securing a waiting list spot for the 991 gt3 by an excellent sales guy. First time ive even considered purchasing a new car, but Brett (salesperson) told me all about how I shouldn't touch cars which were out of warranty, and how CPO cars are the only way to go, etc etc. Anyway... push comes to cajole... and I put a deposit down on a new gt3.
My porsche experience is definitely "antiquated"... My dad owned a 1961 356b cabriolet and a 1964 356c coupe... wish we'd kept them as they have appreciated massively since the 90's... but that's life. Beautiful cars, and not expensive at the time... almost unattainable now. My younger brother also owns a 550 Beck Spyder replica... this one was actually used as a stand-in for Ralph Lauren's car in the Discovery channel special they did on his car collection... needless to say, it's very authentic looking... but it's not a porsche. So, i've always dreamed about a gt3, and was looking for something with a truly pure driving experience. A lotus elise for $40k would do the trick... somehow I let myself be talked into a 991 gt3 for $150k... slippery slope.
If I look at depreciation, I'm thinking i can own this for a year or two... lose approx $10k/year on it, and walk away from a great experience with relatively minimal loss to my wallet. I'm 35, don't have a family yet, live a relatively frugal life... and want to enjoy something truly special before I have to focus on other big expenditures which would preclude crazy stuff like this. My intentions for owning this car? I live in SF, I drive a stationwagon as a daily driver... so I am buying this car for special occasions. I definitely want to track this car some, or there is no point in getting a gt3. I do plenty of motorcycle track days, and I need something with metal around it. I'm looking to get away from a very nasty (hee hee) motorcycling habit, (3 ducatis) and hopefully this car will give me the adrenaline and driving pleasure I want, while not letting me kill/maim myself any further.
I was originally looking at the alfa 4c but I feel the price is just not justified by that car.
Anyway, I've put my deposit down and the link to my tentative build is below. i've tried to be indulgent and conservative at the same time with my options list... I looked at what would make the interior pleasant, without getting into crazy stuff like leather vent slats. I'm thinking about resale value, and also the fact that this is the most expensive car I've ever purchased by a long shot, in fact, I've always purchased used and kept my cars under $40k. Now, I've specced a car with approx $15k in options... the list of options may change slightly... but overall it's cohesive without being absurd... if $15k in options isn't absurd already. Wanted a red-accent color scheme, so deviating red stitching and red dials and belts... minimal leather in interior, with heated seats and some ambient lighting which IMO really makes the driving pleasure at night. On the outside, i thought dark headlights would look really good with a dark car, and I'm deciding between basic black, or this dark blue for an extra $700 and change. Brett told me the lifting system is a MUST... which is why I can't even order this until October 2013 as the lifting system isn't available until then. So, this puts me in approx July 2014... plenty of time to continue to invest well, or lose all my money messing around with stocks ;-D. My delivery date will be summer 2014, and I will be picking it up in Germany, which works well as I'm from Milan, Italy originally and I go home for a few weeks during the summer to visit family. My vision is to have my dad buy a one-way train ticket from Milan when i visit him, and have him meet me at the factory... total surprise for him.. and drive it home together. he never could indulge in certain fantasies... so maybe I can share this one with him.
http://www.porsche-code.com/PEFENU25
I look forward to everyone's advice and banter as I join this forum.
best regards,
Alessandro.
PS. I'm currently trying to decide between a low mileage lease which the dealer suggested as in California we pay 9% tax, or financing. Seems like with as little depreciation as these cars go through in first 1-2 years, that even with paying $12k in taxes up front, it would make sense to finance the car as I'll put probably 5k miles/year on it, and then sell it at close to msrp for it after a year or two, minus what I paid in taxes. thoughts?
05-24-2013, 10:43 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Welcome to the insane asylum!
Great first post.
You are maybe a bit optimistic on depreciation, but it will still be worth it to have a car "just so" and a Euro vacation to boot!
Great first post.
You are maybe a bit optimistic on depreciation, but it will still be worth it to have a car "just so" and a Euro vacation to boot!
05-25-2013, 12:00 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Sales tax on a purchased car is deductible on your Federal taxes in lieu of taking the State income tax deduction. Depending on how much you make you might be able to get a bigger deduction using the sales tax deduction. Not sure if it will apply in 2014 since they will be changing the tax code.
Your depreciation assumptions are wrong. Porsche is not Ferrari. You can figure around 10-15% a year on a Porsche regardless of the number of miles you put on it.
Your depreciation assumptions are wrong. Porsche is not Ferrari. You can figure around 10-15% a year on a Porsche regardless of the number of miles you put on it.
05-25-2013, 03:16 PM
#5
Race Director
Thread Starter
Sales tax on a purchased car is deductible on your Federal taxes in lieu of taking the State income tax deduction. Depending on how much you make you might be able to get a bigger deduction using the sales tax deduction. Not sure if it will apply in 2014 since they will be changing the tax code.
Your depreciation assumptions are wrong. Porsche is not Ferrari. You can figure around 10-15% a year on a Porsche regardless of the number of miles you put on it.
Your depreciation assumptions are wrong. Porsche is not Ferrari. You can figure around 10-15% a year on a Porsche regardless of the number of miles you put on it.
If I compare that to the lease (approx $10k down, and $2k/month).. that's a cost of $58k over two years, which is still more expensive than the approximately $30k in depreciation you are predicting. Hmm... sounds like the purchase may be the way to go. I'll keep looking for info on this. Thank you again.
05-25-2013, 03:38 PM
#6
Banned
Welcome Alessandro. Did Brett offer you a test drive in a (997) GT3 or the new 981 Cayman S, or have you driven a GT3 before?
I'm trying to discern how much have you explored the Porsche universe as it seems that Brett brought you too quickly from the CPO "being the only way to go" to putting a deposit on a $140k new car. Though EU delivery with the dad surprise scenario is one of those things that make life worth living.
I'm trying to discern how much have you explored the Porsche universe as it seems that Brett brought you too quickly from the CPO "being the only way to go" to putting a deposit on a $140k new car. Though EU delivery with the dad surprise scenario is one of those things that make life worth living.
05-25-2013, 03:52 PM
#7
Race Director
Thread Starter
Welcome Alessandro. Did Brett offer you a test drive in a (997) GT3 or the new 981 Cayman S, or have you driven a GT3 before?
I'm trying to discern how much have you explored the Porsche universe as it seems that Brett brought you too quickly from the CPO "being the only way to go" to putting a deposit on a $140k new car. Though EU delivery with the dad surprise scenario is one of those things that make life worth living.
I'm trying to discern how much have you explored the Porsche universe as it seems that Brett brought you too quickly from the CPO "being the only way to go" to putting a deposit on a $140k new car. Though EU delivery with the dad surprise scenario is one of those things that make life worth living.
I have driven a 997.1 gt3 to answer your question, but only for about an hour in the mountains... and absolutely fell in love. I also have completed the first level of the porsche driving academy, and was pleasantly surprised to win the fastest driver award, despite the class being populated by "racers" who couldn't stop talking about their achievements throughout the whole course. I'm just saying this to mention how between track days on bikes and cars, I'm a decent driver who really appreciates steering feel and connection to the machine... I wouldn't buy a turbo for example ;-D
So, while I'm pretty knowledgeable about cars in general, the intricacies of gt3 maintenance, known problem areas, parts costs etc keep me slightly wary of jumping into a 2-4 year old car.
Please offer any thoughts as I'm here to learn... in the Ducati world I know a lot, in the porsche world... I'm the newbiest of newbies.
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05-25-2013, 04:57 PM
#8
Banned
Alessandro, if you took this (or a similar) one for $97k (with a 2yr CPO warranty) your depreciation after two years would be tens of thousands of $'s less than on a brand new GT3. Plus it comes with a manual and a (manually built) Mezger engine at no extra cost (
). Just something to consider.
http://www.porschebeachwood.com/deta...-10109887.html
Also, I suggest you test drive the new 981 Cayman S. I haven't driven it but absolutely love my 987 Boxster S and reviewers are gushing about how much better the 981 platform is than the 987. Depending on how much street/track time you plan on doing, a 987/981 could take a few track days a year at a fraction of the cost of a GT3 and is more comfortable/fun on the street, to boot.
Just throwing things out there...
). Just something to consider.http://www.porschebeachwood.com/deta...-10109887.html
Also, I suggest you test drive the new 981 Cayman S. I haven't driven it but absolutely love my 987 Boxster S and reviewers are gushing about how much better the 981 platform is than the 987. Depending on how much street/track time you plan on doing, a 987/981 could take a few track days a year at a fraction of the cost of a GT3 and is more comfortable/fun on the street, to boot.
Just throwing things out there...
05-25-2013, 05:08 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
FWIW, the 981 Cayman S was panned by the highly respected Sport Auto the German car magazine. Also, it couldn't break the 8 minute mark on the Ring. The Boxster is a terrific car. Handles as well as any car I have driven.
05-25-2013, 06:41 PM
#10
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've tried to be indulgent and conservative at the same time with my options list... I looked at what would make the interior pleasant, without getting into crazy stuff like leather vent slats. I'm thinking about resale value, and also the fact that this is the most expensive car I've ever purchased by a long shot, in fact, I've always purchased used and kept my cars under $40k. Now, I've specced a car with approx $15k in options... the list of options may change slightly... but overall it's cohesive without being absurd... if $15k in options isn't absurd already. Wanted a red-accent color scheme, so deviating red stitching and red dials and belts... minimal leather in interior, with heated seats and some ambient lighting which IMO really makes the driving pleasure at night.
On the outside, i thought dark headlights would look really good with a dark car, and I'm deciding between basic black, or this dark blue for an extra $700 and change. Brett told me the lifting system is a MUST... which is why I can't even order this until October 2013 as the lifting system isn't available until then.
On the outside, i thought dark headlights would look really good with a dark car, and I'm deciding between basic black, or this dark blue for an extra $700 and change. Brett told me the lifting system is a MUST... which is why I can't even order this until October 2013 as the lifting system isn't available until then.
Your car, your choice!
05-25-2013, 06:50 PM
#11
Banned
Much better to keep the dials black and simple no matter what color scheme for the rest you choose.
05-26-2013, 09:39 AM
#12
thanks Nick, good info. Maybe the '10-'11 GT3 cars I see on ebay are just sitting there at those MSRP prices. So, you think if I purchase a $140k 991 gt3, I'm looking at selling for $125k after about a year, and maybe $110k after two years?
If I compare that to the lease (approx $10k down, and $2k/month).. that's a cost of $58k over two years, which is still more expensive than the approximately $30k in depreciation you are predicting. Hmm... sounds like the purchase may be the way to go. I'll keep looking for info on this. Thank you again.
If I compare that to the lease (approx $10k down, and $2k/month).. that's a cost of $58k over two years, which is still more expensive than the approximately $30k in depreciation you are predicting. Hmm... sounds like the purchase may be the way to go. I'll keep looking for info on this. Thank you again.
I don't believe 991 GT3 prices will fall as quickly as the Carrera models. I do not see a $140k gt3 being $110k in two years. Porsche may be producing a few more but there will also be more demand, imo. RSs and GT3s are selling in the $130-$135 and $100-$110 range, respectively. Yes, there are some exceptions but they are rare.
05-26-2013, 10:01 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
I disagree.
This time the GT3's will be sitting at dealerships waiting for buyers. After a year you will get 10% off.
In 2 years you will lose 30k. Even a base 100k Carrera lease is 30k for 2 years, so that's not bad if the GT3 loses the same value.
Supply will be far greater than demand this time around.
I of course could be wrong, but I'm confident that 36 months after the first ones are delivered you can pick up a GT3 under 100k with less then 20k miles and 2 years of factory warranty. Same for the TT.
IMHO this time it's a different animal, too close in character to the free falling (manual) C2S with the GT3 look option.
The 2015RS might be different if its special enough. We will know 2017...
This time the GT3's will be sitting at dealerships waiting for buyers. After a year you will get 10% off.
In 2 years you will lose 30k. Even a base 100k Carrera lease is 30k for 2 years, so that's not bad if the GT3 loses the same value.
Supply will be far greater than demand this time around.
I of course could be wrong, but I'm confident that 36 months after the first ones are delivered you can pick up a GT3 under 100k with less then 20k miles and 2 years of factory warranty. Same for the TT.
IMHO this time it's a different animal, too close in character to the free falling (manual) C2S with the GT3 look option.
The 2015RS might be different if its special enough. We will know 2017...
05-26-2013, 01:00 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Personally, my spec on a 991 Gt3 would be stripped, no options. Just like the .1 RS I picked up. I don't want to be "comfortable" in my sports cars. I want them raw, harsh, and loud. I expect I'm in the minority, maybe. Anyway, if you're a ducati guy, you may want to go for a spin in a .1 or .2 RS...
re depreciation: I can just about guarantee you will pay a LOT more for 2 years of ownership on a new 991 vs. a used .1 or .2 RS, including maintenance (assuming you don't blow the engine up) as I agree with the other posters you are probably being a little optimistic on the depreciation.
That said, buying these cars is an emotional decision, and the financial side is just something you have to talk yourself into. I stopped trying to rationalize cash flow with car purchases a long time ago.
Re CA Tax deduction: I'm going to guess most people here who can buy these cars aren't able to take the sales tax deduction, even on a 140k purchase, due to the $ paid on state income taxes. May be different if you're self-employed/incorporated. I shed a tear every year wondering why the hell I pay the CA tax penalty.... (then I remember warm weather, beach living, killer driving roads, NO BUGS)
re depreciation: I can just about guarantee you will pay a LOT more for 2 years of ownership on a new 991 vs. a used .1 or .2 RS, including maintenance (assuming you don't blow the engine up) as I agree with the other posters you are probably being a little optimistic on the depreciation.
That said, buying these cars is an emotional decision, and the financial side is just something you have to talk yourself into. I stopped trying to rationalize cash flow with car purchases a long time ago.
Re CA Tax deduction: I'm going to guess most people here who can buy these cars aren't able to take the sales tax deduction, even on a 140k purchase, due to the $ paid on state income taxes. May be different if you're self-employed/incorporated. I shed a tear every year wondering why the hell I pay the CA tax penalty.... (then I remember warm weather, beach living, killer driving roads, NO BUGS)
05-26-2013, 01:55 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Personally, my spec on a 991 Gt3 would be stripped, no options. Just like the .1 RS I picked up. I don't want to be "comfortable" in my sports cars. I want them raw, harsh, and loud. I expect I'm in the minority, maybe. Anyway, if you're a ducati guy, you may want to go for a spin in a .1 or .2 RS...
re depreciation: I can just about guarantee you will pay a LOT more for 2 years of ownership on a new 991 vs. a used .1 or .2 RS, including maintenance (assuming you don't blow the engine up) as I agree with the other posters you are probably being a little optimistic on the depreciation.
That said, buying these cars is an emotional decision, and the financial side is just something you have to talk yourself into. I stopped trying to rationalize cash flow with car purchases a long time ago.
Re CA Tax deduction: I'm going to guess most people here who can buy these cars aren't able to take the sales tax deduction, even on a 140k purchase, due to the $ paid on state income taxes. May be different if you're self-employed/incorporated. I shed a tear every year wondering why the hell I pay the CA tax penalty.... (then I remember warm weather, beach living, killer driving roads, NO BUGS)
re depreciation: I can just about guarantee you will pay a LOT more for 2 years of ownership on a new 991 vs. a used .1 or .2 RS, including maintenance (assuming you don't blow the engine up) as I agree with the other posters you are probably being a little optimistic on the depreciation.
That said, buying these cars is an emotional decision, and the financial side is just something you have to talk yourself into. I stopped trying to rationalize cash flow with car purchases a long time ago.
Re CA Tax deduction: I'm going to guess most people here who can buy these cars aren't able to take the sales tax deduction, even on a 140k purchase, due to the $ paid on state income taxes. May be different if you're self-employed/incorporated. I shed a tear every year wondering why the hell I pay the CA tax penalty.... (then I remember warm weather, beach living, killer driving roads, NO BUGS)
