Do you want fast or do you want involvement?
05-22-2013, 01:18 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Do you want fast or do you want involvement?
Check out the comparison between the 2014 GT-R and 2014 Audi R8V10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=noEZL3hWk5o#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=noEZL3hWk5o#!
05-22-2013, 03:05 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
I would not trash GT-R much, it is actually quite a capable car after it gets fixed properly. I saw many of them at lime rock, properly rebuilt 650hp with track suspension and big rear wing it goes around in 56-59sec laps there and is pretty decently fast.
to what degree it brakes down and requires maintenance is a different question but R8 is also not stellar from reliability standpoint. compared to both of them 997 series p-cars are built like tanks, even if we like to bitch here about them, it all better shows up in comparisons.
to what degree it brakes down and requires maintenance is a different question but R8 is also not stellar from reliability standpoint. compared to both of them 997 series p-cars are built like tanks, even if we like to bitch here about them, it all better shows up in comparisons.
05-22-2013, 03:22 PM
#3
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the point of the story is that the R8 proves more desirable b/c it's more engaging. Hard to argue with that. None of us here drive 'laptimes' to work every day. It's all about whether the car puts a smile on your face and sucks you in to the driving experience.
I've not driven the V10 version of the R8. Probably should.
I've not driven the V10 version of the R8. Probably should.
05-22-2013, 04:44 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think the point of the story is that the R8 proves more desirable b/c it's more engaging. Hard to argue with that. None of us here drive 'laptimes' to work every day. It's all about whether the car puts a smile on your face and sucks you in to the driving experience.
I've not driven the V10 version of the R8. Probably should.
I've not driven the V10 version of the R8. Probably should.
There was a disconnect between what was being said and their final conclusion. A lesson for those of us who love speed but also want a drivable DD car. This has been Porsche's success formula.
05-22-2013, 05:01 PM
#5
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is why so many are freaking out about the loss of the manual.
05-22-2013, 06:11 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think most people here get it. If the folks here didn't understand the difference b/t 'feel' and 'speed' they'd be on the vette and gtr boards, two cars for less money that can suck most porsches up their tailpipes.
This is why so many are freaking out about the loss of the manual.
This is why so many are freaking out about the loss of the manual.
However, I do hope the GT3 will keep up or out gun the GT-R. Tall order.
05-22-2013, 06:50 PM
#7
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doubtful. The GTR drives itself and for most drivers will be faster around a track. Torque + Grip + an array of supercomputers. . . The GTR is an engineering tour de force but not a terribly compelling car for many (including me). The new vette is going to be a worldbeater too.
Where the new GT3 will shine is in areas of quality, rigidity, purity of feel, sound, and overall involvment. Oh, and I predict it will be able to withstand the rigors of the the track much better than the GTR.
Where the new GT3 will shine is in areas of quality, rigidity, purity of feel, sound, and overall involvment. Oh, and I predict it will be able to withstand the rigors of the the track much better than the GTR.
Trending Topics
05-22-2013, 10:46 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
You will not stand a chance at any track with big straights against a GTR. They are quick in turns, and 600+hp rules the straights. It is a really good car, not a Pcar, but really good.
05-22-2013, 11:40 PM
#9
I think we're all here because we want involvement. . . . I have yet to drive a car that is more involving than my 2010 gt3.
It really is an addiction
By the way...does Audi offer a manual in the top of the line v10 R8 plus gt? ...or whatever it's called
It really is an addiction
By the way...does Audi offer a manual in the top of the line v10 R8 plus gt? ...or whatever it's called
05-23-2013, 10:47 AM
#12
I'd like to have both too... fast involvement please, thanks you very much! Or should I say: involvement and fast!
With the risk of making myself not so popular here, a small nuance on the GT-R. I completely agree that it's boring as hell on the track, unless you drive it like an utter hooligan, ignoring all basic rules about braking into a corner, throttle positions and acceleration moments and that's not how most people on this forum, myself included, have been track-trained nor do enjoy the track driving.
However, having driven it across mainland Europe twice with a group of 25 sports and supercars, I don't fully agree with the statement that it's too easy to drive, too clinical or that it drives itself. Sure, it's got more electronics than most (desire), but driven as if chased by the devil on empty mountain roads, surrounded by a 430 Scuderia, 599 GTO and GT2 RS, all toggles in Race mode and manually paddle-shifting happily, it more than held its own, is very, very hard work to drive and utterly engaging. I don't see any petrolhead on this forum, regardless of the (Porsche) logo imprinted on their pillow, get out of that car after a drive like that without a large grin on their face (and don't say that because of the surrounding cars, LOL)... which made 2 guys in the crowd buy a GT-R as a result as well.
But, going back to the topic: fast beats involvement with this car, unless you go really fast, and there aren't too many places on public roads where you can do that safely, without your license "Gone in 60 seconds". Doing that 'really fast' on the track leads to disappointment, but driving as fast as you (safely) can across Europe with a set of Dubai license plates did tick my box!
Should I go back into my corner now? ;-)
With the risk of making myself not so popular here, a small nuance on the GT-R. I completely agree that it's boring as hell on the track, unless you drive it like an utter hooligan, ignoring all basic rules about braking into a corner, throttle positions and acceleration moments and that's not how most people on this forum, myself included, have been track-trained nor do enjoy the track driving.
However, having driven it across mainland Europe twice with a group of 25 sports and supercars, I don't fully agree with the statement that it's too easy to drive, too clinical or that it drives itself. Sure, it's got more electronics than most (desire), but driven as if chased by the devil on empty mountain roads, surrounded by a 430 Scuderia, 599 GTO and GT2 RS, all toggles in Race mode and manually paddle-shifting happily, it more than held its own, is very, very hard work to drive and utterly engaging. I don't see any petrolhead on this forum, regardless of the (Porsche) logo imprinted on their pillow, get out of that car after a drive like that without a large grin on their face (and don't say that because of the surrounding cars, LOL)... which made 2 guys in the crowd buy a GT-R as a result as well.
But, going back to the topic: fast beats involvement with this car, unless you go really fast, and there aren't too many places on public roads where you can do that safely, without your license "Gone in 60 seconds". Doing that 'really fast' on the track leads to disappointment, but driving as fast as you (safely) can across Europe with a set of Dubai license plates did tick my box!
Should I go back into my corner now? ;-)
05-23-2013, 11:49 AM
#13
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tom tom interesting comments. I doubt a lot of people, including GTR owners, have done what you described on the street. Makes sense though.
On track I recall Pobst in it twice. Once for a R&T shootout and once for a Motortrend comparo that Nick just posted. He was making fun of the GTR that he didn't have to do anything and that you could drive it quite fast 'w/o being me'. LOL.
It's an admirable machine but such a different kind of car than a GT3.
On track I recall Pobst in it twice. Once for a R&T shootout and once for a Motortrend comparo that Nick just posted. He was making fun of the GTR that he didn't have to do anything and that you could drive it quite fast 'w/o being me'. LOL.
It's an admirable machine but such a different kind of car than a GT3.
05-24-2013, 01:48 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
On paper the 991 Turbo should Lap faster than the 2014 GT-R:
The TTS has 15 more HP (545 vs 560)
The TTS has 90 Ft. Lbs more Torque (553 Ft. Lbs w/OB vs 463)
An additional gear to work with (7 vs 6)
and 201 Lbs less weight (3,662 vs 3,881)
Both cars are now using the same tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx)
Yet the TTS lap times around Nurburgring of the new 991TS is 8 seconds slower than the $71K less expensive ($117K vs $182K) GTR (7:26 vs 7:18) and has matched the lap times of the $275K 997
GT2RS.
Since it is not power, not weight, not tires, and not Aerodynamics (Frontal area is larger, downforce is lower) I conclude it has to be suspension. If Rear wheel steering is so important for lower lap times, Nissan practically invented rear wheel steering for GT cars, having used it since 1989 on the Skyline GTR
as the ATTESA-ETS 4WD AND Super-HICAS 4 wheel steering system. The complex HICAS system is no longer used on the GT-R, but apparently Nissan has found a way to use a far more simplified, reliable and obviously hugely effective passive 4 WD steering system in today's GT-R.
I conclude, advanced and improved as the 991 Chassis is, Porsche still has some catching up to do with Nissan.
The TTS has 15 more HP (545 vs 560)
The TTS has 90 Ft. Lbs more Torque (553 Ft. Lbs w/OB vs 463)
An additional gear to work with (7 vs 6)
and 201 Lbs less weight (3,662 vs 3,881)
Both cars are now using the same tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx)
Yet the TTS lap times around Nurburgring of the new 991TS is 8 seconds slower than the $71K less expensive ($117K vs $182K) GTR (7:26 vs 7:18) and has matched the lap times of the $275K 997
GT2RS.
Since it is not power, not weight, not tires, and not Aerodynamics (Frontal area is larger, downforce is lower) I conclude it has to be suspension. If Rear wheel steering is so important for lower lap times, Nissan practically invented rear wheel steering for GT cars, having used it since 1989 on the Skyline GTR
as the ATTESA-ETS 4WD AND Super-HICAS 4 wheel steering system. The complex HICAS system is no longer used on the GT-R, but apparently Nissan has found a way to use a far more simplified, reliable and obviously hugely effective passive 4 WD steering system in today's GT-R.
I conclude, advanced and improved as the 991 Chassis is, Porsche still has some catching up to do with Nissan.
05-24-2013, 03:57 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
On paper the 991 Turbo should Lap faster than the 2014 GT-R:
The TTS has 15 more HP (545 vs 560)
The TTS has 90 Ft. Lbs more Torque (553 Ft. Lbs w/OB vs 463)
An additional gear to work with (7 vs 6)
and 201 Lbs less weight (3,662 vs 3,881)
Both cars are now using the same tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx)
Yet the TTS lap times around Nurburgring of the new 991TS is 8 seconds slower than the $71K less expensive ($117K vs $182K) GTR (7:26 vs 7:18) and has matched the lap times of the $275K 997
GT2RS.
Since it is not power, not weight, not tires, and not Aerodynamics (Frontal area is larger, downforce is lower) I conclude it has to be suspension. If Rear wheel steering is so important for lower lap times, Nissan practically invented rear wheel steering for GT cars, having used it since 1989 on the Skyline GTR
as the ATTESA-ETS 4WD AND Super-HICAS 4 wheel steering system. The complex HICAS system is no longer used on the GT-R, but apparently Nissan has found a way to use a far more simplified, reliable and obviously hugely effective passive 4 WD steering system in today's GT-R.
I conclude, advanced and improved as the 991 Chassis is, Porsche still has some catching up to do with Nissan.
The TTS has 15 more HP (545 vs 560)
The TTS has 90 Ft. Lbs more Torque (553 Ft. Lbs w/OB vs 463)
An additional gear to work with (7 vs 6)
and 201 Lbs less weight (3,662 vs 3,881)
Both cars are now using the same tires (Dunlop Sport Maxx)
Yet the TTS lap times around Nurburgring of the new 991TS is 8 seconds slower than the $71K less expensive ($117K vs $182K) GTR (7:26 vs 7:18) and has matched the lap times of the $275K 997
GT2RS.
Since it is not power, not weight, not tires, and not Aerodynamics (Frontal area is larger, downforce is lower) I conclude it has to be suspension. If Rear wheel steering is so important for lower lap times, Nissan practically invented rear wheel steering for GT cars, having used it since 1989 on the Skyline GTR
as the ATTESA-ETS 4WD AND Super-HICAS 4 wheel steering system. The complex HICAS system is no longer used on the GT-R, but apparently Nissan has found a way to use a far more simplified, reliable and obviously hugely effective passive 4 WD steering system in today's GT-R.
I conclude, advanced and improved as the 991 Chassis is, Porsche still has some catching up to do with Nissan.