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-   991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r-229/)
-   -   Faster on track GT3 or TT? (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/756517-faster-on-track-gt3-or-tt.html)

TRAKCAR 05-15-2013 02:34 PM

Faster on track GT3 or TT? Same tires.
 
I've always thought that a stock 997 PDK TT was as fast or faster than a 997 GT3 on track with the same tires in the hands of most DE drivers.

If a stock TT cant keep up, it will be close and it certainly can keep up with a tune and some suspension and aero pieces from the GT3.

The reason the keep the GT3 was sound, feel, weight and manual.

The new 991 TT is relatively close to the same price as a GT3 (15K), but now both come PDK only anyway and the TT has active aero. I have yet to look at options that may be included on the TT that are not on the GT3 that may narrow the gap.

With the pretty light AWD system and Turbo's, my guess its only 125LBS heavier, surely the TT is faster with 520HP and 475LB tq before tuning!
I think the 50-150MPH acceleration numbers will be much different. The TT does 0-100Mph in 7.1 seconds. anyone have the GT3 number?

The feel could be about the same with torque vectoring, PDK and the rest of the alphabet.
The GT3 is already heavier, has RWS, electric steering and also only PDK etc.

Unless they hold the TT back somehow I cant see it not being much faster and feel similar with some bushings, tune and equal tires?

Conekilr 05-15-2013 03:03 PM

Stock for Stock I think the GT3 will be faster depending on track layout.
The GT3's suspension will be more track oriented along with it's gearing. I also suspect that the PTV will be tuned differently and the cars will feel quite different...All speculation of course....

:cheers:

LexVan 05-15-2013 03:07 PM

Redline on the GT3 should be higher. I rarely see Turbos ahead of the GT3 pack at the DE's I attend.

Targa Tim 05-15-2013 03:22 PM

Peter,
I think your prediction is right on.
If I were buying now, it will be new TT over GT3.
It will be too easy to install aftermarket suspension bits to match or beat the stock GT3 setup.
Extra hp on TT is something that a GT3 can never match.

WSH 05-15-2013 03:26 PM

One other thing to consider.....Turbo's are fairly bullet-proof vs. GT3's

My own experience:
-07 GT3: engine out twice, once for coolant leaks other for RMS. Still leaked when I sold it
-11 RS.....clutch & Centerlocks...tick-tock
-02 Turbo (owned for 10+ years)...nothing, nada, zilch. Never leaked or used one drop of oil, no clutch no centerlock no RMS issues, nothing. Hell the original battery lasted 8 years.


wsh

911dev 05-15-2013 03:47 PM

we're talking more like 275+ lbs, right?

No comparison re:torque (487 w/over-boost) but no sound, short redline, softer suspension, etc... I would think the 991 gt3 to get to 100 in 7.5 secs.

TRAKCAR 05-15-2013 03:54 PM

You could be right with 275lbs, I just looked at difference between a c2s and c4s plus some turbos.

275lb difference in weight is 2.5 seconds at Sebring roughly. It makes that up on the front and back straight I figure.

Mike in CA 05-15-2013 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by TRAKCAR (Post 10464288)
The new 991 TT is relatively close to the same price as a GT3 (15K), but now both come PDK only anyway and the TT has active aero. I have yet to look at options that may be included on the TT that are not on the GT3 that may narrow the gap.

With the pretty light AWD system and Turbo's, my guess its only 125LBS heavier, surely the TT is faster with 520HP and 475LB tq before tuning!
I think the 50-150MPH acceleration numbers will be much different. The TT does 0-100Mph in 7.1 seconds. anyone have the GT3 number?

The price diff is $18K but let's not split hairs....

I haven't seen a 0-100 time for the GT3 but the weight delta to the 991 TT is much more than 125lbs (edit: or even 275 lbs). Porsche lists the DIN weight of a base GT3 at 1430KG or 3153 lbs while the base TT is 1595KG or 3516lbs, a difference of 363 lbs. BTW these numbers are from the German configurator which has more complete info than the US site.

Conekilr 05-15-2013 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by Targa Tim (Post 10464435)
Peter,
I think your prediction is right on.
If I were buying now, it will be new TT over GT3.
It will be too easy to install aftermarket suspension bits to match or beat the stock GT3 setup.
Extra hp on TT is something that a GT3 can never match.

There's no disputing that the Turbo can be made to be faster than the GT3 on track but at a price. The price differential just comparing base prices is actually $17,900 + whatever you will spend on suspension....

Then there's the "feel"...The GT3's steering will be more track focused (programed for more feedback) and again, you can't overlook the gearing PDK-S vs. PDK which I think will negate some of the HP advantage of the turbo...

:cheers:

Nick 05-15-2013 04:10 PM

No doubt for the average driver AWD would be an advantage on a track. However, since the GT3 now has AWS that would compensate for the lack of AWD. Drivers with similar abilities will driver faster in the GT3.

TRAKCAR 05-15-2013 04:10 PM

That is a much bigger weight difference than I guessed.
You are going to feel that.

18K buys you some luxury stuff that's optional on the GT3 I guess but that's splitting hairs indeed.

Just decided to go to Sebring this weekend. No time to get the 4.0 ready so we will be slumming it in the Mustang, LOL.

wanna911 05-15-2013 04:11 PM

Keep in mind none of the tests for the Turbo and GT3 have ever been on the same tires. The GT3 has gotten the better tires. However, the suspension geometry is pretty much the same with minor adjustments for AWD. The Turbo should be faster with similar tires.

The problem is the bucking and swaying (pitching and rolling) from the soft suspension, which will be made worse with stickier tires. And then the AWD numbs the cornering experience, but inspires lots of confidence and earlier, heavier throttle application. Hard to dial that out without a spring or damper change. The TT's have never been very stable or precise cars from the factory. Will be slightly faster on same tires but a lot less fun unless you undo some of Porsche's sandbagging it for the GT2.

I am into Turbo's and even I wouldn't do it unless I planned on a suspension upgrade. The TT's just do not come track satisfactory from the factory.

TRAKCAR 05-15-2013 04:14 PM

Yes, tire for tire and I wonder what it would take to button up a TT..

Conekilr 05-15-2013 04:23 PM


Originally Posted by TRAKCAR (Post 10464577)
...No time to get the 4.0 ready so we will be slumming it in the Mustang, LOL.

Nothing wrong with a Mustang. I had a 92 5.0 Coupe that embarrassed a lot of 911s in it's day...:rockon:

F1CrazyDriver 05-15-2013 04:33 PM

As for weight, yes given very different platforms. My 996, looks fairly stock but it weights 3145lbs with 1/2 fuel. Ask mooty and the rennlist gt3 cup group(most running 997.2 GT3rs) how thill was when I was running next to them.... my turbo had plenty left in it (the wife was riding shotgun with me), and i was on their neck with pace.


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