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Faster on track GT3 or TT?

 
Old 05-16-2013, 07:09 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by WSH View Post
One other thing to consider.....Turbo's are fairly bullet-proof vs. GT3's

My own experience:
-07 GT3: engine out twice, once for coolant leaks other for RMS. Still leaked when I sold it
-11 RS.....clutch & Centerlocks...tick-tock
-02 Turbo (owned for 10+ years)...nothing, nada, zilch. Never leaked or used one drop of oil, no clutch no centerlock no RMS issues, nothing. Hell the original battery lasted 8 years.


wsh
yes..a 996 turbo is a bullet proof car..but dont forget the 991 turbo is way more complex..and I doubt it will be as bullet proof as the 996 turbo - NEVER I would say.

Regarding the speed of the 991 turbo, you all make fair points..but in the past GT3s were always faster on track - not on straightline. If this time the turbo can be as fast as the GT3..why get a GT3? In the past you had at least in 997.2 times; the better engine...but now..

Regarding the tuning of the 997.2/991 turbo: many companies refrained from tuning it ..RUF just did it with a bit more than 600HP but almost changed every part in there...at huge cost..thsi will be no cheap tuning..
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:15 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
- Porsche claimed that no Turbo lag on the 997.1. Fool me once........

- The GT3 time on hockenheim was an estimate, not an actual time. And still it doesn't count until it's done third party like almost all of the rest of them.

- If the Turbo S did (Theoretical Best Lap Time as usual) 7:26 on regular street tires, then it's definitely potent. The GT-R, ZR1, Z07, GT2RS all had R comp level tires on.
Exactly...claiming and talking...let Sport Auto do their job and we will see whether the 991 GT3 and 991 turbo will be Mp4-12 and Aventador crunchers...I would doubt it..but lets see.

The Sport Auto Supertest for the 991 GT3 is planned for September...
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:09 AM
  #33  
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On our local track, a 997 Turbo S PDK with a modified suspension is as fast as a 997.2 RS. The suspension mods were fairly extensive mind you. Dunno which parts were used but it has lots of neg. camber and is lowered and stiff. The car suffers under braking compared to an RS (weight) but on the straights .. bye-bye in spite of lower exit speeds.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:50 AM
  #34  
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AP has already said the GT3 will be 2 seconds faster around the ring given the tires, which would put it at a 7:24.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:00 PM
  #35  
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it's easy ... use front gt up rights, so geometry is back in place. set of shocks, and aero...
I recently rode in a 997.2 Turbo S making 600whp with 670tq, and I have to say that the car feels much better than a 997.1TT which feels like a rear engine truck.
That car will be in 997 cup territory on slicks. Reason you don't often see fast turbos are just the drivers, period.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:11 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by M3EvoBR View Post
it's easy ... use front gt up rights, so geometry is back in place. set of shocks, and aero...
I recently rode in a 997.2 Turbo S making 600whp with 670tq, and I have to say that the car feels much better than a 997.1TT which feels like a rear engine truck.
That car will be in 997 cup territory on slicks. Reason you don't often see fast turbos are just the drivers, period.

I have driven a good friends 997 Turbo before he sold it, and i didnt like it at all. I have not driven a .2 turbo.

Not that it means much but here is Monkeys take, which we seem to be on the same boat I have been telling people for years. They thought i was delusional. My 7 year tenure with my turbo is due for an upgrade. I'm not looking at Porkas anymore like I thought I would. I'm not feeling the new lineup.

http://www.pistonheads.com/porsche/d...?storyId=27663
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:18 PM
  #37  
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Oh boy. I thought I had it all figured out but I guess I was wrong. I was alway under the assumption that the GT3's advantage over the TT was:

1. Better Driving experience
2. Faster on tracks but slower on straights
3. Shares limited racing technology from the actual race cars which is a little more hardcore than the tt.

I believe AP states that the GT3 is a bit under 7:30 not a bit under 7:25. Im assuming 7:29-28-27.

With everyone complaining about losing the driving experience, the new TT posting awesome numbers which is comparable to the GT3 if not better and the TT sharing a lot of the new tech as the GT3, now I wonder is there really a big gap between the GT3 and the TT anymore?
I love the look of the GT3 and what it stands for but if a luxury sports car can post better track numbers, its makes me think twice about the GT3.

Im a newbie at this so please excuse my lack of knowledge about Porsche products. I do track here and there when time allows me to but certainly not like some of you pros here.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:30 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Dude- View Post
Oh boy. I thought I had it all figured out but I guess I was wrong. I was alway under the assumption that the GT3's advantage over the TT was:

1. Better Driving experience
2. Faster on tracks but slower on straights
3. Shares limited racing technology from the actual race cars which is a little more hardcore than the tt.

I believe AP states that the GT3 is a bit under 7:30 not a bit under 7:25. Im assuming 7:29-28-27.f

With everyone complaining about losing the driving experience, the new TT posting awesome numbers which is comparable to the GT3 if not better and the TT sharing a lot of the new tech as the GT3, now I wonder is there really a big gap between the GT3 and the TT anymore?
I love the look of the GT3 and what it stands for but if a luxury sports car can post better track numbers, its makes me think twice about the GT3.

Im a newbie at this so please excuse my lack of knowledge about Porsche products. I do track here and there when time allows me to but certainly not like some of you pros here.
The gt3 will give "sportier feel " I'm sure, and out of the gates it is going to "feel faster " due to the sportier suspension supplied from the factory. Some say its the finest of an N/A engine and learning to go fast without all that power. I call BS. IF that is true, get a miata, get an old 911 with beefed up suspension and no hpower ( 964) . GT3 mask driver errors to. I see them in 90% of the drivers out there at the track. To master a Turbo, it takes a lot of finesse like a gt3. A semi pro driver I met at Pete's track day, looked at me funny .. i explained to him the difference in throttle application before the apex/at apex/after the apex with a gt3 vs a turbo....he told me a gt3 is faster then my turbo yada yada.... On my 14th lap ever on that track, i broke his personal best lap record, and he claimed to have done over 500 laps. Go figure. And this is from a guy whom has less than 20 track days with his turbo, in 7 years.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Dan39 View Post
AP has already said the GT3 will be 2 seconds faster around the ring given the tires, which would put it at a 7:24.
2 Seconds faster than what? The Turbo or the Turbo S? 2 seconds faster than the Turbo would put it at 7:27 which lines up with all of the other "he saids"

Originally Posted by M3EvoBR View Post
it's easy ... use front gt up rights, so geometry is back in place. set of shocks, and aero...
I recently rode in a 997.2 Turbo S making 600whp with 670tq, and I have to say that the car feels much better than a 997.1TT which feels like a rear engine truck.
That car will be in 997 cup territory on slicks. Reason you don't often see fast turbos are just the drivers, period.
+1 and this goes back for generations. Guys were modding Turbo's to the max and couldn't keep up with stock GT3's. Then blamed the car for not being competent and said it couldn't be done. That misinformation became common belief.

The 996 TT's (especially X-50 or Turbo S) with minimal mods (coilovers, tune, sway bars) can run with 997.2 RS's (pending track). With no aero. The early 997 TT's were not much of an improvement at all over the 996 TT handling wise, probably worse, but later with the new updgrades, they should have been way faster.

But I think every generation has needed some coilovers so far. The stock dampers are atrocious.

Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
I have driven a good friends 997 Turbo before he sold it, and i didnt like it at all. I have not driven a .2 turbo.
I didn't like the 7.1 Turbo either, it was aweful.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #40  
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For months people have been mocking the 991 GT3 for being overweight and now a much heavier TT is being touted as a better track car. The GT3 weighs 3153, the TT comes in at 3516; that's 363 reasons why I'd rather have the GT3.

TEHO, of course, but a little consistency at least, gentlemen!
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:59 PM
  #41  
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VIPER SRT 10, Good shocks, tires. VERY FAST. can match any thing listed so far...
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
For months people have been mocking the 991 GT3 for being overweight and now a much heavier TT is being touted as a better track car. The GT3 weighs 3153, the TT comes in at 3516; that's 363 reasons why I'd rather have the GT3.

TEHO, of course, but a little consistency at least, gentlemen!
I agree, the turbo may be faster but it is too wide, fat and ugly. GT3 is much more pretty. They could have had the Turbo weight in @ 75 lbs lbs heavier the a 991 C4S and had an amazing car.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:29 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
For months people have been mocking the 991 GT3 for being overweight and now a much heavier TT is being touted as a better track car. The GT3 weighs 3153, the TT comes in at 3516; that's 363 reasons why I'd rather have the GT3.

TEHO, of course, but a little consistency at least, gentlemen!
Read more carefully faster does not equal better. No one has said it will be better.

The harp on the weight of the gt3 is relative to its predecessors and all of the unhappy unneeded electronic aids making it heavier when it could be MUCH lighter. The turbo has been about 3500 lbs for 3 generations, so it's not getting fatter.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:53 PM
  #44  
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From the data on www.fastestlaps.com comparing the last 997-2 GT3 and 997-2 Turbo / Turbo S it is very close with the GT3s on R Compound Track tires and the TTs running Street Tires. Of the 12 tracks both cars ran recently, the TT was faster on 6, and the GT-3/RS was faster on 7, but if the TTs ran R tires also, they would theoretically gain 1-2 seconds / lap and be likely faster than both the GT3 and
GT3RS models on most tracks. How much of this carries over to the newest 991 model? Stay tuned!
Advantage Turbo
Track 997-2 GT3 997-2 Turbos
Nurburgring 7:40 7:32 (S)
Tsukuba 1:04.84 1:03.45
Top Gear 1:23.10 1.22.2
Vairano 1:18.54 (RS) 1:16.97 (S)
Oscherleben 1:43.50 1:42.74
Laguna Seca 1:39.52 1:37.8

Advantage GT3:
Autozeitung 1:35.8 1:36.9
Hockenheim 1:10.4 1:10.9 (S)
Balocco 2:45.97 2:49.4
Sachsenring 1:36.11 1:36.86
Bedford 1:23.30 1:23.41
VIR (Virginia) 2:55.9 (RS) 2:57.50 (S)
Willow Springs 1:33.14 (RS) 1.33.31
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:25 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
I've always thought that a stock 997 PDK TT was as fast or faster than a 997 GT3 on track with the same tires in the hands of most DE drivers.

If a stock TT cant keep up, it will be close and it certainly can keep up with a tune and some suspension and aero pieces from the GT3.

The reason the keep the GT3 was sound, feel, weight and manual.

The new 991 TT is relatively close to the same price as a GT3 (15K), but now both come PDK only anyway and the TT has active aero. I have yet to look at options that may be included on the TT that are not on the GT3 that may narrow the gap.

With the pretty light AWD system and Turbo's, my guess its only 125LBS heavier, surely the TT is faster with 520HP and 475LB tq before tuning!
I think the 50-150MPH acceleration numbers will be much different. The TT does 0-100Mph in 7.1 seconds. anyone have the GT3 number?

The feel could be about the same with torque vectoring, PDK and the rest of the alphabet.
The GT3 is already heavier, has RWS, electric steering and also only PDK etc.

Unless they hold the TT back somehow I cant see it not being much faster and feel similar with some bushings, tune and equal tires?
991TT will destroy the 991GT3 on a racetrack.

Nurburgring lap times translate to our racetracks (pro-rated).

The 991 TTS lapped the Ring in 7:26 on street tires. On the wider wheels, and sticky MPSC-2 or Dunlop Sport Maxx Race, the 991 TTS would lap in 7:18 (sticky rubber shaves 1 second per minute compared to MPSS and more compared to PZero and other crappy street tires).

TT weight has been coming down, while GT3 weight has been going up. The TT comes with a pig heavy battery, heavy wheels, it is very easy to make it lighter (FWD delete, rear seat delete, light wheels, light muffler, static Aero, Li-Ion battery).

For the money, the choice is easy: another Scuderia.
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