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Old 05-27-2013, 08:02 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
Now we have the cool-aid drinkers talking about feel. While in other threads they talk about going faster, is what matters.
The 991 lengthened wheelbase adds more weight. So one solution to improve handling on the GT3 is to add more weight with RWS to shorten the wheelbase.

Obviously, the dinosaurs back in day didn't need the new memo, and just shortened the wheelbase.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:58 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by frayed View Post
Damn.

You are awesome.
Thank you



Originally Posted by Z356 View Post
Damn, I love Mini's! Although I tossed the hard run-flats out even before I took delivery!

Saludos,
Eduardo

Eduardo,

It looks like we have similar taste in cars Congrats, your MiniS is a beauty!

Enrique
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:06 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by LotF View Post
The 991 lengthened wheelbase adds more weight. So one solution to improve handling on the GT3 is to add more weight with RWS to shorten the wheelbase.

Obviously, the dinosaurs back in day didn't need the new memo, and just shortened the wheelbase.
LOL! funny.

I think people need to wake up and realize that a 911 is not what it use to be. A Sports car. It has now turned into a Luxury Sports car.

Before, it was a sports car, and just sports car. Awesome at being a sports car.
The NEW 911's are a luxury car first, AND THEN a sports car.

Times change. People whom can afford these cars are getting older. Most older people, don't have the reflex of being young anymore, but have the pockets to buy these cars. Target your market, Porsche did that.

Older people need more assistance in driving a car fast. The left leg and the right arm are not working in correlation together the way it did when they were in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's....

Some older people are freaks and faster as they get older. I know because I have seen it. A late 60 year old with a 996 gt3 track prep 2600 going ***** to the wall giving me a hard time! ( he has a vast collection of semi-automatic cars too.. that he told me those are only used for dates with the wife, as thats what they are only good at-- his words not mine)

So not all old people, with money need assistance! But people whom need the assistance out weight the ones that don',t that can afford these cars.

Some people own these cars and want analog because of the joy it brings. Some don't care.

But most importantly, most of the people whom are dropping 150k on a car want luxury. They want something their 150k car has, that the Jones 50k car does not have. Look at this texture feel of my leather. One can make the assessment that the 911 has matured from being a wild teenage VW with the engine in the wrong place and whipping the tail end happy, to a more civilized luxury car.

Last edited by F1CrazyDriver; 05-31-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:11 PM
  #169  
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^ I disagree with much of this. I see the 991 as both a sports car and luxury car. The former when dialed up, the latter when driving normally on the road. And regarding age, while the top pro racers may tend to be young, among DE guys and club racers I haven't seen a strong correlation between age vs ability and willingness to drive the car hard, among guys under about age 60.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:33 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
LOL! funny.

I think people need to wake up and realize that a 911 is not what it use to be. A Sports car. It has now turned into a Luxury Sports car.

Before, it was a sports car, and just sports car. Awesome at being a sports car.
The NEW 911's are a luxury car first, AND THEN a sports car.

Times change. People whom can afford these cars are getting older. Most older people, don't have the reflex of being young anymore, but have the pockets to buy these cars. Target your market, Porsche did that.

Older people need more assistance in driving a car fast. The left leg and the right arm are not working in correlation together the way it did when they were in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's....

Some older people are freaks and faster as they get older. I know because I have seen it. A late 60 year old with a 996 gt3 track prep 2600 going ***** to the wall giving me a hard time! ( he has a vast collection of semi-automatic cars too.. that he told me those are only used for dates with the wife, as thats what they are only good at-- his words not mine)

So not all old people, with money need assistance! But people whom need the assistance out weight the ones that don',t that can afford these cars.

Some people own these cars and want analog because of the joy it brings. Some don't care.

But most importantly, most of the people whom are dropping 150k on a car want luxury. They want something their 150k car has, that the Jones 50k car does not have. Look at this texture feel of my leather. One can make the assessment that the 911 has matured from being a wild teenage VW with the engine in the wrong place and whipping the tail end happy, to a more civilized luxury car.
As a new GT3 buyer and considering the 12 or so new GT3 buyers on this thread Id say most of these statements are not foundered on any truths.

By the way every generation of 911 has become "more luxury than sport". I think of the 997 911 as a GT compared to my 993 C2 and I have friends who look at my 993 C2 as a luxury car compared to their G series. Nothing is changing here - its evolution.

991 GT3 is a bit more revolution than evolution but Porsche needed it. They were becoming far to conservative with upgrading this car until the 991 came along and they needed to pick up the pace...
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:34 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
^ I disagree with much of this. I see the 991 as both a sports car and luxury car. The former when dialed up, the latter when driving normally on the road. And regarding age, while the top pro racers may tend to be young, among DE guys and club racers I haven't seen a strong correlation between age vs ability and willingness to drive the car hard, among guys under about age 60.
A production, street legal gt3 is no a race car. I repeat its not a race car. So therefore your point about pro drivers has nothing to do with this or age of people that can afford this car. A pro driver, the car is paid by a race team, and they don't have of the tech gizmos this car comes with from the factory. You hit the nail in the head this car is a luxury car, none prior have been. End of story.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:48 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
A production, street legal gt3 is no a race car. I repeat its not a race car. So therefore your point about pro drivers has nothing to do with this or age of people that can afford this car. A pro driver, the car is paid by a race team, and they don't have of the tech gizmos this car comes with from the factory. You hit the nail in the head this car is a luxury car, none prior have been. End of story.
Okay so what mass production 'sports cars' are there out there if a GT3 is a luxury car? How about a Ferrari 458? Is that a luxury car? What about a Gallardo or a 12C?

I'm 32 and I have my GT3 on order because in my mind it's the ultimate sports car and I have enough agility and skill to exploit it.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:51 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
As a new GT3 buyer and considering the 12 or so new GT3 buyers on this thread Id say most of these statements are not foundered on any truths.

By the way every generation of 911 has become "more luxury than sport". I think of the 997 911 as a GT compared to my 993 C2 and I have friends who look at my 993 C2 as a luxury car compared to their G series. Nothing is changing here - its evolution.

991 GT3 is a bit more revolution than evolution but Porsche needed it. They were becoming far to conservative with upgrading this car until the 991 came along and they needed to pick up the pace...
Thus far of the people I have seen on rennlist and 6spo of people who are getting a new 3, most are not track rats. I agree Porsche needed a "revolution" in the 911 series. But not on the gt3/gt2 IMO. I agree the 993 is very sporty but bad suspension geometry for a good handling car. A G series ?
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:52 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
You hit the nail in the head this car is a luxury car, none prior have been. End of story.
Says the guy who, if his avatar is any indication, drives an AWD turbo GT with power brakes, steering, windows, seats, stability control, stereo, and no doubt a host of other conveniences? No offense intended, it's a beautiful car, but not a luxury sports car?

This is a 50 year old argument. There are plenty of purists who believe the last true non-GT Porsche "sports car" was the 356.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:13 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Dan39 View Post
Okay so what mass production 'sports cars' are there out there if a GT3 is a luxury car? How about a Ferrari 458? Is that a luxury car? What about a Gallardo or a 12C?

I'm 32 and I have my GT3 on order because in my mind it's the ultimate sports car and I have enough agility and skill to exploit it.
you made it to easy.
458- Luxury sports car
Std. Gallardo- Luxury sports car ( not much of a sports car honestly! drives terrible!)
12c- Luxury sports car

Hell I'm looking to get into a mp4-12c and I'll admit its a luxury sports car any day of the week.




Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Says the guy who, if his avatar is any indication, drives an AWD turbo GT with power brakes, steering, windows, seats, stability control, stereo, and no doubt a host of other conveniences? No offense intended, it's a beautiful car, but not a luxury sports car?

This is a 50 year old argument. There are plenty of purists who believe the last true non-GT Porsche "sports car" was the 356.

The AWD I would possibly give it to you. Stability control ? you mean psm ? that thing is a joke and that is why it is always turned off.

The rest of the stuff i would not say its from a "luxury" car. Those are "refinements" on a modern car. Btw, my car does not have power seats.

Mike, you and I live in the SFBA. Maybe you should join a group of guys that we go for drives on the weekend.

The point i'm trying to make here is, the new 911 GT3 is luxury first and then sports car. My definition of a "refined modern sports car" is a Lotus, 997 gt3/gt2 etc.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:39 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
The AWD I would possibly give it to you. Stability control ? you mean psm ? that thing is a joke and that is why it is always turned off.

The rest of the stuff i would not say its from a "luxury" car. Those are "refinements" on a modern car. Btw, my car does not have power seats.

Mike, you and I live in the SFBA. Maybe you should join a group of guys that we go for drives on the weekend.

The point i'm trying to make here is, the new 911 GT3 is luxury first and then sports car. My definition of a "refined modern sports car" is a Lotus, 997 gt3/gt2 etc.
Enrique, I get your point, but although neither one of us has driven a 991 GT3 I'll stick my neck out and say that once it has been tested and driven by people first hand, no one will think of it as "luxury car". The difference between "refinements" and "luxury" is subjective and relative. A 356 owner from the '50's would no doubt consider it a luxury car on some level, but the same could be said of every modern Porsche.

Maybe when I get my new GT3 I'll come down and join you guys for a drive, so you can see what a "luxury car" looks like up close!

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Old 05-31-2013, 06:41 PM
  #177  
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Drive a 991S hard (assuming you have the skill to do so) and tell me that's not a stellar sports car. Or ask someone like Randy Pobst what he thinks of it, I believe he knows something about driving cars on track ...
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:57 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
Drive a 991S hard (assuming you have the skill to do so) and tell me that's not a stellar sports car. Or ask someone like Randy Pobst what he thinks of it, I believe he knows something about driving cars on track ...
I did. I sold it. Kept the Cayman R.

For me, the 991 C2S was more luxury than sport. It reminded my of my Mercedes more than anything. The Cayman R is more fun to drive.

IMHO, YMMV and all that.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:59 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver View Post
you made it to easy.
458- Luxury sports car
Std. Gallardo- Luxury sports car ( not much of a sports car honestly! drives terrible!)
12c- Luxury sports car

Hell I'm looking to get into a mp4-12c and I'll admit its a luxury sports car any day of the week.







The AWD I would possibly give it to you. Stability control ? you mean psm ? that thing is a joke and that is why it is always turned off.

The rest of the stuff i would not say its from a "luxury" car. Those are "refinements" on a modern car. Btw, my car does not have power seats.

Mike, you and I live in the SFBA. Maybe you should join a group of guys that we go for drives on the weekend.

The point i'm trying to make here is, the new 911 GT3 is luxury first and then sports car. My definition of a "refined modern sports car" is a Lotus, 997 gt3/gt2 etc.
Am I correct in assuming that your definition of a sport car is a vehicle that is difficult to drive and uncomfortable ?

That a sport car cannot be comfortable, easy and fun to drive? How do YOU measure how good a sport car is? Is it that it would require a great amount of skill to drive or is it overall performance compared to the previous model?
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:06 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by RayDBonz View Post
I did. I sold it. Kept the Cayman R.

For me, the 991 C2S was more luxury than sport. It reminded my of my Mercedes more than anything. The Cayman R is more fun to drive.

IMHO, YMMV and all that.
I've done many track days in the Cayman R (instructor with PCA et al) and understand where you're coming from. But did you track your 991 C2S? I'd agree that it's less 'raw' than the CR, but IMO the performance of the 991 is undeniable.
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