991GT3 US allocations
05-16-2013, 08:07 PM
#31
The same sequence of events unfolded for the 997.1 GT3 and to some extent the 997.2 GT3. The former was a feeding frenzy and gouging, with six months of sustained high values on the secondary market, and the latter was a supply of unsold cars sitting in the winter rain.
There's nothing to say these cars will be in short supply after the initial sales novelty wears off.
The only fact we know at present is that Porsche will be selling these cars for three years and every order will be filled.
Early adopters will have their prized status symbol, in a few years hence, all it will be is an early build date and a resale value incrementally lower than cars with 2014 build dates -- and those cars will be as readily available new and used as a 2010 GT3 was for its tenure.
It's the same old story. Dealers will invent a perceived scarcity or let buyers walk in the door with that illusion already clouding their minds. A sales person would be out of a job if they spoke a word of reason and said "wait three months ... will it kill you to wait to be driving this car in the Spring instead of having it in the garage for the winter?"
I think if Web forum sites can create a useful service, it's to share experience and help buyers realize that they hold the only card in the game that counts.
As for Ferrari buying versus Porsche, things have changed a lot since Ferrari screwed the pooch during the 2008 crash. It all depends on the car and the timing of the buyer. If you're late to order and you have no prior purchases (new or used) you can expect some stated delays that will quickly shrink from "years" to months. If you want to pay up, there's probably 2013 model car to drive home today. Happy with an "old" 2012 or 2010 or 2007, there's one of every model and color at a dealer ready to trade at prices below original selling price. Compare that with say five years ago. Early 2008. Used cars sold above new prices. Delays were real and well over a year even if you wanted something very ordinary. I waited for an F430 6spd manual order for over a year. My Scuderia order was never even touched (and thankfully so, because the economic chill was in the air and when they said it was my turn I could see that meant others in front of me were bailing and that was the cue to get the hell out of there.)
Ferrari hasn't made a car that retains its value in years. Porsche hasn't made a car that retains its value above checking account interest rates other than the immediate supply-demand imbalance of the 2RS and RS 4.0 -- it seems reasonable to expect that with a year or so even those two cars will resume normal pricing and be displaced by their 991 successors.
There's nothing to say these cars will be in short supply after the initial sales novelty wears off.
The only fact we know at present is that Porsche will be selling these cars for three years and every order will be filled.
Early adopters will have their prized status symbol, in a few years hence, all it will be is an early build date and a resale value incrementally lower than cars with 2014 build dates -- and those cars will be as readily available new and used as a 2010 GT3 was for its tenure.
It's the same old story. Dealers will invent a perceived scarcity or let buyers walk in the door with that illusion already clouding their minds. A sales person would be out of a job if they spoke a word of reason and said "wait three months ... will it kill you to wait to be driving this car in the Spring instead of having it in the garage for the winter?"
I think if Web forum sites can create a useful service, it's to share experience and help buyers realize that they hold the only card in the game that counts.
As for Ferrari buying versus Porsche, things have changed a lot since Ferrari screwed the pooch during the 2008 crash. It all depends on the car and the timing of the buyer. If you're late to order and you have no prior purchases (new or used) you can expect some stated delays that will quickly shrink from "years" to months. If you want to pay up, there's probably 2013 model car to drive home today. Happy with an "old" 2012 or 2010 or 2007, there's one of every model and color at a dealer ready to trade at prices below original selling price. Compare that with say five years ago. Early 2008. Used cars sold above new prices. Delays were real and well over a year even if you wanted something very ordinary. I waited for an F430 6spd manual order for over a year. My Scuderia order was never even touched (and thankfully so, because the economic chill was in the air and when they said it was my turn I could see that meant others in front of me were bailing and that was the cue to get the hell out of there.)
Ferrari hasn't made a car that retains its value in years. Porsche hasn't made a car that retains its value above checking account interest rates other than the immediate supply-demand imbalance of the 2RS and RS 4.0 -- it seems reasonable to expect that with a year or so even those two cars will resume normal pricing and be displaced by their 991 successors.
05-17-2013, 01:42 AM
#32
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If I am not mistaken Porsche wanted deposits on the Carrera GT and now the 918. I cannot say whether it is a dealer decision or PAG in requiring a deposit. Certainly PAG is not discouraging deposits on a car they refuse to let the customer know when he/she can order the car.
Why does the ROW know their allocations and US dealers do not? Again, because it has been that way in the past does not make it right or something we in the US should tolerate. Fortunately, my deposit is refundable and if PAG wants to play games with US customers the we have our options.
Why does the ROW know their allocations and US dealers do not? Again, because it has been that way in the past does not make it right or something we in the US should tolerate. Fortunately, my deposit is refundable and if PAG wants to play games with US customers the we have our options.
05-17-2013, 01:45 AM
#33
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Will be receiving one of the first US cars. I love this 918 VIP program!
05-17-2013, 12:02 PM
#35
It will be interesting to see how well the 918 holds it's value. I think there is a big haircut in those cars.
05-17-2013, 12:07 PM
#36
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Yes. I think the 918 is coming around winter time, but I am going to take delivery of it in Europe, drive the great roads there (stelvio pass, nurburing, etc) and then have it brought to the US. Not sure when gt3 comes, but they said "I will get one of the first cars." We will see what happens.
05-17-2013, 04:23 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I guess Porsche might limit exposure to the unforeseeable consequences of 475hp and 9000rpm but I'm guessing greed will overcome prudence. Since the GT3 is now on the production line with the Carrera there's no practical limitation on production volume.
I think it's important, as a consumer, to stay out of the initial feeding frenzy. End of quarter after they sell to the "first kid on the block" buyers, prices will be negotiable and I see no cause for concern about limited allocations.
I think it's important, as a consumer, to stay out of the initial feeding frenzy. End of quarter after they sell to the "first kid on the block" buyers, prices will be negotiable and I see no cause for concern about limited allocations.
If you want one, you'll be able to order one just like a carrera. And believe me, MSRP will be negotiable, just like any other model.
05-17-2013, 09:57 PM
#39
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It's going to be a bloodbath, the 918 is a pig re the P1 and the LaFerrari. What it has going is incredible technology in materials and so on but that of course will be obsolete in 10 years and what owners will be left with is something that is not anywhere near as good a driver's car as it could be and something that has very little prestige because it was never the fastest/best/it car of it's time.
05-17-2013, 10:09 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
It's going to be a bloodbath, the 918 is a pig re the P1 and the LaFerrari. What it has going is incredible technology in materials and so on but that of course will be obsolete in 10 years and what owners will be left with is something that is not anywhere near as good a driver's car as it could be and something that has very little prestige because it was never the fastest/best/it car of it's time.
I watched the 918 video by Chris Harris. Ill "open my Kimono" (yes another idiom LOL bare with me!) and say that I heard the death knell toll (yes I know idiom city!). Seriously I realized the 991 GT3 may be the last ever Porsche product I can buy. I think Chris felt it too. He was blown away by the tech and the novelty but I just didn't "feel" it from him.
I think the 918 will be an amazing car and for the next 5 years we will all toast it as a marvel of engineering. But the 991 GT2 will make it somewhat irrelevant on a pure performance basis and slowly it will fade. I dont believe it will become as iconic as the 959 and Carrera GT. We are entering a different world now.
05-18-2013, 12:16 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
Ordered GT3 and GT3RS with deposits for each over 8 months ago. I'm #1 on GT3 and #2 on GT3RS.
GT3 order as per my spec sent to PAG by my dealer same day as configurator and prices were published.
No acknowledgement or projected delivery from PAG received yet. Hopefully response will come soon.
GT3 order as per my spec sent to PAG by my dealer same day as configurator and prices were published.
No acknowledgement or projected delivery from PAG received yet. Hopefully response will come soon.
05-18-2013, 09:33 AM
#42
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Ordered GT3 and GT3RS with deposits for each over 8 months ago. I'm #1 on GT3 and #2 on GT3RS.
GT3 order as per my spec sent to PAG by my dealer same day as configurator and prices were published.
No acknowledgement or projected delivery from PAG received yet. Hopefully response will come soon.
GT3 order as per my spec sent to PAG by my dealer same day as configurator and prices were published.
No acknowledgement or projected delivery from PAG received yet. Hopefully response will come soon.
05-18-2013, 12:42 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
over a relatively short period and the "normal" delivery cycle will follow within a
month or two.
05-18-2013, 01:01 PM
#44
CarreraGT and Dan39, I agree with all you have written above. I think the 918 minus the electric would be worth more long term compared to its current form. What happens in x amount of years when the batteries need to be removed, disposed of and then replaced?
05-18-2013, 03:43 PM
#45
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Do you think they will offer to put lighter batteries in later on as tech advances? The problem with the e motors in my opinion is weight. The tech of using them is great IMHO. Just an off-topic question, what do you think power will be in the 991 gt3 rs?