If you could ask Andreas Preuninger (chief engineer of the new GT3) what would it be?
03-28-2013, 03:09 PM
#93
Burning Brakes
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I would ask:
1) How many 991 GT3 orders would Porsche need in U.S., to make it feasible to offer 5-lug bolt wheels as an option?
2) How many 991 GT3 orders would Porsche need in U.S., to offer the Sport Bucket seats introduced with the 2008 GT2 as an option?
3) What's the longevity ratio of the 991 GT3 new electronic differential compared to the rapidly wearing differential used in the 996 and 997 GT3?
4) Is the 991 GT3 engine going into the 2014 GT3 Cup, 2014 GT3 R and 2014 GT3RSR?
5) How many 991 GT3 orders would Porsche need in U.S., to offer a manual transmission option?
6) Could you include the U.S. GT3 RS buyers as part of the focus groups to help development on the future GT cars? ROW focus groups seem to be softening the GT cars.
7) What's your strategy to get the Porsche GT cars back to the place they used to be, where they set the highest performance pace in their segment compared to the competitor products from GM/Ford/Chrysles/BMW/Audi?
8) Would Porsche consider to produce a limited edition, composite materials, lightweight version of a future 991 GT3 or 991 GT3 RS, following the concept of the 1973 911 Carrera RS, and how many units would need to be sold worldwide to make it viable?
9) Would Porsche consider a limited partnership with RUF to produce special edition GT cars?
1) How many 991 GT3 orders would Porsche need in U.S., to make it feasible to offer 5-lug bolt wheels as an option?
2) How many 991 GT3 orders would Porsche need in U.S., to offer the Sport Bucket seats introduced with the 2008 GT2 as an option?
3) What's the longevity ratio of the 991 GT3 new electronic differential compared to the rapidly wearing differential used in the 996 and 997 GT3?
4) Is the 991 GT3 engine going into the 2014 GT3 Cup, 2014 GT3 R and 2014 GT3RSR?
5) How many 991 GT3 orders would Porsche need in U.S., to offer a manual transmission option?
6) Could you include the U.S. GT3 RS buyers as part of the focus groups to help development on the future GT cars? ROW focus groups seem to be softening the GT cars.
7) What's your strategy to get the Porsche GT cars back to the place they used to be, where they set the highest performance pace in their segment compared to the competitor products from GM/Ford/Chrysles/BMW/Audi?
8) Would Porsche consider to produce a limited edition, composite materials, lightweight version of a future 991 GT3 or 991 GT3 RS, following the concept of the 1973 911 Carrera RS, and how many units would need to be sold worldwide to make it viable?
9) Would Porsche consider a limited partnership with RUF to produce special edition GT cars?
Case (almost) closed -991 RSR was presented today and will not use the new engine. I already posted that in the other thread. I doubt they will change it after one year...
03-28-2013, 03:12 PM
#95
Race Director
LOL Mike,
With comfy, I mean dead artifcial or no feeling like the 991C2S, but with more weight and no manual.
Nothing to do with proving anything, just worried it will be less fun, less exciting to drive. Nothing feels as good in your hands as a 997GT3RS!
When I predicted the RS to be $150K I did not like it either, but I was right, probably on the low side.
These prices are too high for what the car is, or likely will be. Maybe I am wrong, it possible. You are correct that we cant be sure until we drive the car.
Problem is in order for me to buy at these prices just to try it properly I need to see more exciting stuff than I see now, but you start dreaming and thinking about the alternatives and I own a CPO 4.0RS that has warranty till 2017!
I like speculating about this stuff. I dreamt last night I had a unique PTS light blue 997RS and I put 18" BBS with slicks on like they did during the 24h of the Ring in 2010, only I painted them completely shiney black. Weird.
No 991 dreams whatsoever.
With comfy, I mean dead artifcial or no feeling like the 991C2S, but with more weight and no manual.
Nothing to do with proving anything, just worried it will be less fun, less exciting to drive. Nothing feels as good in your hands as a 997GT3RS!
When I predicted the RS to be $150K I did not like it either, but I was right, probably on the low side.
These prices are too high for what the car is, or likely will be. Maybe I am wrong, it possible. You are correct that we cant be sure until we drive the car.
Problem is in order for me to buy at these prices just to try it properly I need to see more exciting stuff than I see now, but you start dreaming and thinking about the alternatives and I own a CPO 4.0RS that has warranty till 2017!
I like speculating about this stuff. I dreamt last night I had a unique PTS light blue 997RS and I put 18" BBS with slicks on like they did during the 24h of the Ring in 2010, only I painted them completely shiney black. Weird.
No 991 dreams whatsoever.
A final follow up on the comfy issue; I'll say again that the team that created the 4.0RS will not have built a dead, artificial feeling car for their next effort. I don't know that, but I'd bet on it. And price-wise, at least on paper, the new car has more content and performance than the old RS with a base that's $7-9K cheaper. Assuming there is no "comfy" problem, I don't see how anyone can say it's overpriced.
As to your dream, maybe you should lay off the pizza before bedtime. Although it actually sounds like a cool dream; I'd consider going with the double anchovies tonight and see what happens.
03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
Guys, Cayman GT3 Here you go:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=59610
Too bad I dont fit in them.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=59610
Too bad I dont fit in them.
03-28-2013, 03:40 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
If I owned a 4.0RS, I wouldn't be thinking about a 991 GT3 right now either!
A final follow up on the comfy issue; I'll say again that the team that created the 4.0RS will not have built a dead, artificial feeling car for their next effort. I don't know that, but I'd bet on it. And price-wise, at least on paper, the new car has more content and performance than the old RS with a base that's $7-9K cheaper. Assuming there is no "comfy" problem, I don't see how anyone can say it's overpriced.
As to your dream, maybe you should lay off the pizza before bedtime. Although it actually sounds like a cool dream; I'd consider going with the double anchovies tonight and see what happens.
A final follow up on the comfy issue; I'll say again that the team that created the 4.0RS will not have built a dead, artificial feeling car for their next effort. I don't know that, but I'd bet on it. And price-wise, at least on paper, the new car has more content and performance than the old RS with a base that's $7-9K cheaper. Assuming there is no "comfy" problem, I don't see how anyone can say it's overpriced.
As to your dream, maybe you should lay off the pizza before bedtime. Although it actually sounds like a cool dream; I'd consider going with the double anchovies tonight and see what happens.
It does not even come with ventilated seats!
Its getting close to real luxury exotics in price, so all that it now has going for it is track endurance. I just repeat but it better be more bullit proof than the 997RS..
Pizza with anchovies huh? I thought it was the ambian, zanax and liquor.....
03-28-2013, 03:45 PM
#98
Race Director
03-28-2013, 04:07 PM
#99
On why we speculate...
Eduardo, you mean factual evidence for previous cars. We have zero factual evidence for the new GT3 that relates to the reliability problems you mention (or any others for that matter), with the possible exception of the CL's and that has reportedly been addressed.
If your point is that we should be suspicious now of every car Porsche builds then I guess there is some logic to that, and maybe people should be posting their concerns across every Porsche forum, not just the one for the new GT3. Personally, though, I think it makes more sense not to waste time speculating on what might go wrong with the car and wait until we have some real world experience to speak to.
If your point is that we should be suspicious now of every car Porsche builds then I guess there is some logic to that, and maybe people should be posting their concerns across every Porsche forum, not just the one for the new GT3. Personally, though, I think it makes more sense not to waste time speculating on what might go wrong with the car and wait until we have some real world experience to speak to.
b) Regardless if CL's issues have been solved (jury still out), I do have empathy for the situation that all previous .2 gt3 owners have been put in by Porsche's faulty engineering on those models. My solidarity is with them...not with Porsche! That could have been you, Mike in CA, had you chosen to invest on a .2 gt3 instead of your .2 C2S! And we need to stand with them on these issues so that these also get resolved! Think of it as a 'No gt3 Left Behind' sort of political campaign!
c) The decision by PCNA to NOT OFFER an optional sport bucket seat on the US 991 is apparently meant to discourage this vehicle from being taken to the track for recreational use (not racing). That decision raises some level of skepticism among the enthusiasts about how sure Porsche is re: potential catastrophic failures and whether everything has been made 'bullet-proof'!
d) People are posting concerns about other Porsche models across every forum, on a frequent basis, at least here on Rennlist. It is all very helpful and the reason why Rennlist serves so well the interest of its readers!
d) Folks are speculating about Porsche's reliability because they have lost a sense of trust in the brand! That is what happens when you screw up re: certain critical parts of a previous model or when you fail to certify the gt2 sport buckets on your most 'sporting' track-oriented offering for MY2014! People get suspicious...and they have a right to be!
Porsche should be very thankful that folks like us here at Rennlist are bringing up these issues now to their attention! It is a shot across Porsche's bow. Rarely does a company get this type of 'free advice' before they go and release their next big thing! This conversation we are having is mostly about WHAT Porsche should NOT do with on their upcoming 991 RS! Many of the most strident voices here have .1 or .2 997 gt3 RS's! They will not buy the base 991 gt3 even if it would have been 'perfect'! They are waiting for the RS model. To many, the base 991 gt3 is a loss leader and they can readily accept Porsche's decision to make it a 'street' only vehicle! The RS, however, its a different kettle of fish and they are voicing their concerns to let Porsche know that they don't want to be disappointed!
So this conversation & discussion has been extremely helpful, at least to me and perhaps to some folks at Porsche! It is distilling to a fine essence the thought process of a large cross-sectional group of the devoted Porsche enthusiasts! Especially those that track their vehicles here in the United States. And although my best DE days are behind me, I identify with those that put their vehicles to such use on the track! It's a tradition & ritual that we have all come to value in our cars! Unlike with many other brands, we have been able to readily use our Porsches at DE's with reasonable assurances of reliability & without concerns about catastrophic failures!
These guys here at Rennlist have stated their wants & needs re: the upcoming 991 RS! I find the 'speculation' very worthwhile & extremely interesting. I hope Porsche finds it of great value. Should Porsche ignore our constructive critcism, they do so at their own risk! Sorry for the rant but this is the only box I found this morning to stand on and it might have influenced my thoughts!
:Saludos,
Eduardo
03-28-2013, 04:22 PM
#101
c) The decision by PCNA to NOT OFFER an optional sport bucket seat on the US 991 is apparently meant to discourage this vehicle from being taken to the track for recreational use (not racing). That decision raises some level of skepticism among the enthusiasts about how sure Porsche is re: potential catastrophic failures and whether everything has been made 'bullet-proof'!
I have read through the RT thread on the GT3 and honestly cannot take it either (but this applies to several threads there and the attitude from an unnamed admin). There is a reason I have taken a longer pause from that forum...
The only thing I fail to see the logic behind is the "decision by PCNA" to not offer the seats because potential catastrophic failures. The seats are offered in ALL other countries and recreational track driving is not discouraged by Porsche in Europe (quite the opposite). Hence I don't believe this is the reason.
03-28-2013, 04:42 PM
#103
Race Director
a) You have to read the 24 pages of the 991 gt3 at Rennteam to understand what I am talking about with regards the specific statement I made which you are quoting!
b) Regardless if CL's issues have been solved (jury still out), I do have empathy for the situation that all previous .2 gt3 owners have been put in by Porsche's faulty engineering on those models. My solidarity is with them...not with Porsche! That could have been you, Mike in CA, had you chosen to invest on a .2 gt3 instead of your .2 C2S! And we need to stand with them on these issues so that these also get resolved! Think of it as a 'No gt3 Left Behind' sort of political campaign!
c) The decision by PCNA to NOT OFFER an optional sport bucket seat on the US 991 is apparently meant to discourage this vehicle from being taken to the track for recreational use (not racing). That decision raises some level of skepticism among the enthusiasts about how sure Porsche is re: potential catastrophic failures and whether everything has been made 'bullet-proof'!
d) People are posting concerns about other Porsche models across every forum, on a frequent basis, at least here on Rennlist. It is all very helpful and the reason why Rennlist serves so well the interest of its readers!
d) Folks are speculating about Porsche's reliability because they have lost a sense of trust in the brand! That is what happens when you screw up re: certain critical parts of a previous model or when you fail to certify the gt2 sport buckets on your most 'sporting' track-oriented offering for MY2014! People get suspicious...and they have a right to be!
Porsche should be very thankful that folks like us here at Rennlist are bringing up these issues now to their attention! It is a shot across Porsche's bow. Rarely does a company get this type of 'free advice' before they go and release their next big thing! This conversation we are having is mostly about WHAT Porsche should NOT do with on their upcoming 991 RS! Many of the most strident voices here have .1 or .2 997 gt3 RS's! They will not buy the base 991 gt3 even if it would have been 'perfect'! They are waiting for the RS model. To many, the base 991 gt3 is a loss leader and they can readily accept Porsche's decision to make it a 'street' only vehicle! The RS, however, its a different kettle of fish and they are voicing their concerns to let Porsche know that they don't want to be disappointed!
So this conversation & discussion has been extremely helpful, at least to me and perhaps to some folks at Porsche! It is distilling to a fine essence the thought process of a large cross-sectional group of the devoted Porsche enthusiasts! Especially those that track their vehicles here in the United States. And although my best DE days are behind me, I identify with those that put their vehicles to such use on the track! It's a tradition & ritual that we have all come to value in our cars! Unlike with many other brands, we have been able to readily use our Porsches at DE's with reasonable assurances of reliability & without concerns about catastrophic failures!
These guys here at Rennlist have stated their wants & needs re: the upcoming 991 RS! I find the 'speculation' very worthwhile & extremely interesting. I hope Porsche finds it of great value. Should Porsche ignore our constructive critcism, they do so at their own risk! Sorry for the rant but this is the only box I found this morning to stand on and it might have influenced my thoughts!
:
Saludos,
Eduardo
b) Regardless if CL's issues have been solved (jury still out), I do have empathy for the situation that all previous .2 gt3 owners have been put in by Porsche's faulty engineering on those models. My solidarity is with them...not with Porsche! That could have been you, Mike in CA, had you chosen to invest on a .2 gt3 instead of your .2 C2S! And we need to stand with them on these issues so that these also get resolved! Think of it as a 'No gt3 Left Behind' sort of political campaign!
c) The decision by PCNA to NOT OFFER an optional sport bucket seat on the US 991 is apparently meant to discourage this vehicle from being taken to the track for recreational use (not racing). That decision raises some level of skepticism among the enthusiasts about how sure Porsche is re: potential catastrophic failures and whether everything has been made 'bullet-proof'!
d) People are posting concerns about other Porsche models across every forum, on a frequent basis, at least here on Rennlist. It is all very helpful and the reason why Rennlist serves so well the interest of its readers!
d) Folks are speculating about Porsche's reliability because they have lost a sense of trust in the brand! That is what happens when you screw up re: certain critical parts of a previous model or when you fail to certify the gt2 sport buckets on your most 'sporting' track-oriented offering for MY2014! People get suspicious...and they have a right to be!
Porsche should be very thankful that folks like us here at Rennlist are bringing up these issues now to their attention! It is a shot across Porsche's bow. Rarely does a company get this type of 'free advice' before they go and release their next big thing! This conversation we are having is mostly about WHAT Porsche should NOT do with on their upcoming 991 RS! Many of the most strident voices here have .1 or .2 997 gt3 RS's! They will not buy the base 991 gt3 even if it would have been 'perfect'! They are waiting for the RS model. To many, the base 991 gt3 is a loss leader and they can readily accept Porsche's decision to make it a 'street' only vehicle! The RS, however, its a different kettle of fish and they are voicing their concerns to let Porsche know that they don't want to be disappointed!
So this conversation & discussion has been extremely helpful, at least to me and perhaps to some folks at Porsche! It is distilling to a fine essence the thought process of a large cross-sectional group of the devoted Porsche enthusiasts! Especially those that track their vehicles here in the United States. And although my best DE days are behind me, I identify with those that put their vehicles to such use on the track! It's a tradition & ritual that we have all come to value in our cars! Unlike with many other brands, we have been able to readily use our Porsches at DE's with reasonable assurances of reliability & without concerns about catastrophic failures!
These guys here at Rennlist have stated their wants & needs re: the upcoming 991 RS! I find the 'speculation' very worthwhile & extremely interesting. I hope Porsche finds it of great value. Should Porsche ignore our constructive critcism, they do so at their own risk! Sorry for the rant but this is the only box I found this morning to stand on and it might have influenced my thoughts!
:Saludos,
Eduardo
I also appreciate poster's concerns re: Porsche's direction, the reliability and suitability of their cars, and wish list for the upcoming RS and I find the give and take interesting and worthwhile as well; it's why I fired up this thread last night with some provocative comments and look at all the great stuff that's come out of it, including your post above. I could hope that sometimes there was a bit more balance....I mean, not everything Porsche does is crapola and some complaints and concerns are pretty off the wall, IMO.... but different people have different perspectives. If I'd had the CL on a GT car come off at speed, I'd probably be a bit jaded too. Since I've had pretty much uniformily good luck with Porsches for 30 years, I suppose my POV may be skewed the other way.
Anyway, that was a damn fine box you found to stand on. Kudos!
Best,
03-28-2013, 04:57 PM
#104
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I know z356 personally but he forgot p is just a car company trading on some stk exchange.
look to past, u have t b a fkg nut to buy Porsche
no pwr str
no ac working
u lift u die
just buy a Mbz
if u bought a 911 u bought a Porsche
today Porsche is a car not a passion.
ac works has unite int
dental fillings no longer all out
u no longer emerge from ur car smelling like oil
so when we carry on such conversation, the real questionis r u buying a car or a Porsche. Porsche no longer makes Porsche. they make a cap blur and somewhat fast car that kind of reliable.
if u make more than 10000 cars a yr, u are no longer fueled by passion. u are fueled by $$$. that's the reason for Porsches existence not to,appease RLster which is a tiny population.e wealth is Asia thinks Porsches are too small too loud too cheap and I'm not kidding. if pepper was bigger and cost 100,000 more, it will sell better. if they caled the next rs gt8rs8 it will command a HUGE premium in china.
bottom line RL is about passion and soap box
Porsche is a car company they make cars, not Porsches.
Porsches isn't really engineering company either.
forged piston, have u guys chk s2000 piston or Honda wan mere piston?
s2000 spins at 9000 and usually outlast mezger.
I just like the soap shape of 911
look to past, u have t b a fkg nut to buy Porsche
no pwr str
no ac working
u lift u die
just buy a Mbz
if u bought a 911 u bought a Porsche
today Porsche is a car not a passion.
ac works has unite int
dental fillings no longer all out
u no longer emerge from ur car smelling like oil
so when we carry on such conversation, the real questionis r u buying a car or a Porsche. Porsche no longer makes Porsche. they make a cap blur and somewhat fast car that kind of reliable.
if u make more than 10000 cars a yr, u are no longer fueled by passion. u are fueled by $$$. that's the reason for Porsches existence not to,appease RLster which is a tiny population.e wealth is Asia thinks Porsches are too small too loud too cheap and I'm not kidding. if pepper was bigger and cost 100,000 more, it will sell better. if they caled the next rs gt8rs8 it will command a HUGE premium in china.
bottom line RL is about passion and soap box
Porsche is a car company they make cars, not Porsches.
Porsches isn't really engineering company either.
forged piston, have u guys chk s2000 piston or Honda wan mere piston?
s2000 spins at 9000 and usually outlast mezger.
I just like the soap shape of 911
03-28-2013, 05:13 PM
#105
Rennlist Member
Last I heard, RT was going to change name to RC's Blog.On the second point, I'm not trying to be arrogant. The point of my statement is simply this, some people are in love with the badge and blindly take anything it gives them, place it on a pedestal and think the sun shines out its rear. They are not critical, don't use the car as intended, therefore experience fewer problems and believe everything they are told by Porsche. They are purely label driven.
Some are enthusiasts, buy a car for its intended purpose, use and enjoy it and at the same time are able to identify shotcomings and failures rather than blindly follow the company line... They have the ***** to call foul when Porsche get it wrong! Just like many of the guys here...
Having read the RT thread, you'll hopefully be able to understand why I could sell a Prius with 911 panels to the RT crowd. In general, there are no enthusiasts there I could see, just people blindly preaching the Porsche line... Hell, even CLs were fixed! Why? Porsche said so! So why are you complaining they said...
