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Ferrari F1 vs new version PDK?

 
Old 03-17-2013, 04:57 PM
  #16  
Bill_C4S
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The Pagani Huayra - single clutch - must be getting close as well....~1000 NM and a 96 kg transmission...and from EVO "such is the Huayra’s stability that very quickly you use Sport mode as the default setting. This reduces shift times to a scarcely believable 20 milliseconds, further improves throttle response...."
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:14 PM
  #17  
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PDK, F1, whatever the name it is a way to replace seeking excellence with measuring time.

Living well is fundamentally about excellence.

Use fishing as an analog;

PDK = bobber and super bait with a spinning reel on a casting rod.

Manual = fly rod with a dry fly on a 3 weight in crystal clear water.

Gonna catch A LOT more fish with the first example... but there is excellence only with the second example.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:52 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBahamas View Post
Use fishing as an analog;

PDK = bobber and super bait with a spinning reel on a casting rod.

Manual = fly rod with a dry fly on a 3 weight in crystal clear water.

Gonna catch A LOT more fish with the first example... but there is excellence only with the second example.
Using evolution as an analog;

PDK = mammals

Manual = dinosaurs

We all know what happened to the dinosaurs...
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:23 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
Doc. It is true what you say. There will be no manual GT car by the end of the 991 model run. The turbo and GT2 will be PDK only as well. Within a few years like you say it will become normal. Like water cooled is now. This is why I believe Porsche will not offer manual and PDK-S - it totally defeats the point of taking this path. Then we will be talking about electric hybrid GT cars in horror. The world turns and life goes on. I don't hear any F car owners complain about the 458 Italia...
Another part of the equation is CAFE. WIth PDK in automatic and such they can work on milage as required and at the same time provide a dual clutch which will enable drivers to focus on other aspects of skill development.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:56 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by StirlingMoss View Post
Using evolution as an analog;

PDK = mammals

Manual = dinosaurs

We all know what happened to the dinosaurs...


call us what you will - - but

choice = Happy customers
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:27 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by -eztrader- View Post
call us what you will - - but

choice = Happy customers
Choice ≠ Maximum Profits
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:13 AM
  #22  
ShakeNBake
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Originally Posted by Bill_C4S View Post
The Pagani Huayra - single clutch - must be getting close as well....~1000 NM and a 96 kg transmission...and from EVO "such is the Huayra’s stability that very quickly you use Sport mode as the default setting. This reduces shift times to a scarcely believable 20 milliseconds, further improves throttle response...."
It's 89KG, and they use an electric brake motor to synchronize input/output shaft speeds, so they don't need to wait for the synchros to do their work. They have some pretty smart ***** working in that hanger.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:51 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ShakeNBake View Post
They have some pretty smart ***** working in that hanger.
Given the extent to which Pagani draws on the road car/F1/aerospace supply/support businesses around Modena, that is a very apt...description.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #24  
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Some choices in life are soooooooo difficult
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:17 PM
  #25  
mdrums
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Originally Posted by StirlingMoss View Post
Using evolution as an analog;

PDK = mammals

Manual = dinosaurs

We all know what happened to the dinosaurs...
LOL
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:55 AM
  #26  
cgomez
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Originally Posted by ShakeNBake View Post
It's 89KG, and they use an electric brake motor to synchronize input/output shaft speeds, so they don't need to wait for the synchros to do their work. They have some pretty smart ***** working in that hanger.
So true!
I personally prefer the feel and most importantly lower weight of the ingle clutch automated clutch manuals (still a manual because you "manually" can select any gear you choose). PDK and double clutch are becoming the preferred choice only because they work better as full automatic (mode) and do better in Fuel Economy tests (in auto mode).
If companies were building track/race cars from scratch with disregard for Auto mode, they will certainly all come to single clutch automated solution (the RSR, and all GTE cars already are).
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:11 AM
  #27  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by cgomez View Post
So true!
I personally prefer the feel and most importantly lower weight of the ingle clutch automated clutch manuals (still a manual because you "manually" can select any gear you choose).
Never owned a single clutch automanual and I'm unfamiliar with that capability. How is manual gear selection with a single clutch different from PDK in manual mode, for example?
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:31 AM
  #28  
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two different animals..... no comparison.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:10 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Never owned a single clutch automanual and I'm unfamiliar with that capability. How is manual gear selection with a single clutch different from PDK in manual mode, for example?
I had smg on my e46...actually a couple transmissions in that car...smg in its fastest mode was pretty hard on synchros...and 10s of thousands of track miles at tws wore out the 3-4 synchro.

Single clutch vs dual clutch really is just about speed and everything that follows that. Single clutch is very violent given that the slack in the drivetrain is allowed to unwind and then torques up again, resulting in neck snapping gear changes under power. I That's about it in manual mode.


In auto mode, single clutch is terrible - the unexpected disruption in power flow lead to driver head bobbing.

Overall, single is more of an experince...and I can see why Toyota left it in the lfa.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:42 PM
  #30  
Mike in CA
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Thanks, but my specific question was in response to the statement by cgomez that with a single clutch automanual it was still a "manual" because "you could manually select any gear your choose". Is a single single clutch manual somehow different in that respect from PDK in manual mode?
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