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Old 03-12-2013, 11:52 AM
  #1  
DrJay
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Default 2013 GT3 Technical features video...

"... it's a lot more similar to the cup cars gearbox than the carreras PDK..."

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:53 AM
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a lot of you disagree, but I think this car will be flippin awesome.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:11 PM
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"car more involving and more fun to drive than ever"?????

how can he say this?

This car is either going to convert us all, or we are all going to hate it - - no in between
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by -eztrader- View Post
"car more involving and more fun to drive than ever"?????

how can he say this?

Ahhh he's driven it?

Now where's my Kool-Aid
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
a lot of you disagree, but I think this car will be flippin awesome.
+1
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:13 PM
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No question it will move the performance bar forward. Now if Porsche would just offer a warranty that backed up the marketing spin.....
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:36 PM
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Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by Bill_C4S View Post
Ahhh he's driven it?
+1 You beat me to it, Bill.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by -eztrader- View Post
This car is either going to convert us all, or we are all going to hate it - - no in between
+1
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:48 PM
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BTW, I'm not a Fiat expert but isn't the 430 Scuderia shift time around 60ms?
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
BTW, I'm not a Fiat expert but isn't the 430 Scuderia shift time around 60ms?
This is what I could find quickly on Audiboost forum, not sure about the source of this info

The average manual car driver: 500 ms - 1 s
Aston Martin Vanquish: 250 ms
Ferrari 575M: 220 ms
BMW M3 E36 with SMG I: 220 ms
Ferrari 360: 150 ms
Enzo Ferrari: 150 ms
Lexus LFA: 150 ms
Ferrari FXX: Under 100 ms
Nissan GT-R: 100ms
BMW M3 E46 with SMG II: 80 ms
Ferrari 430 Scuderia & FXX Evoluzione: 60 ms
Volkswagen Golf GTI (Direct Shift): 8 ms
Bugatti Veyron (Direct Shift): 8 ms
All Volkswagen DSG Gearbox (Direct Shift): 8 ms
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:11 PM
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Really enjoyed the video. My name is on the list and hope to get this next spring - like someone on here already said. Its either going to win me over completely or I am going to flip it real fast!

Last edited by uhn2000; 03-12-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mike2727 View Post
This is what I could find quickly on Audiboost forum, not sure about the source of this info

The average manual car driver: 500 ms - 1 s
Aston Martin Vanquish: 250 ms
Ferrari 575M: 220 ms
BMW M3 E36 with SMG I: 220 ms
Ferrari 360: 150 ms
Enzo Ferrari: 150 ms
Lexus LFA: 150 ms
Ferrari FXX: Under 100 ms
Nissan GT-R: 100ms
BMW M3 E46 with SMG II: 80 ms
Ferrari 430 Scuderia & FXX Evoluzione: 60 ms
Volkswagen Golf GTI (Direct Shift): 8 ms
Bugatti Veyron (Direct Shift): 8 ms
All Volkswagen DSG Gearbox (Direct Shift): 8 ms
Duh. PDK is a dual-clutch as opposed to single-clutch sequential. Don't really understand the 100ms boast now. DCT's have virtually no lag in shift time as you show above. It'll be interesting to see what's leading to the very slow shift times for this PDK.

Here's a C&D review of the current PDK. Note the 67lb weight gain over the manual, which is dead in-line with what's being quoted for the PDK in the 991 GT3.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-pdk-tech-dept

"Rummaging through the parts bin to build several cars out of the same basic bits is nothing new and, in rare cases, can even result in cars with distinct personalities. Porsche’s Boxster, Cayman, and 911 don’t suffer from sharing a multitude of body, chassis, and powertrain components. Now Porsche’s transmission engineers have moved parts-sharing down to the micro level to reap two transaxles from one blueprint. The world’s first seven-speed manual gearbox is an offshoot of the seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic introduced three years ago for the 997-series 911. Both are available in the 2012 991-series 911 Carrera and Carrera S.

Porsche and ZF have been collaborating on the design and development of these transaxles—code-named the DT11 (PDK) and the MT11 (manual)—since 2003. From the start, the two companies planned on sharing the maximum number of parts and manufacturing tools. Credit ZF engineer Dr. Michael Ebenhoch with inventing the twofer shift kinematics.

Each gearbox is comprised of three aluminum castings—a front section, a rear section, and one removable cover. While those castings are different to suit each transaxle’s functional distinctions, roughly one-third of the internal parts are common [see above]. The main shaft, output shaft, differential, some of the gears, and the *synchronizer mechanisms are shared. The PDK ’box has two input shafts versus the manual transaxle’s single shaft. A drive flange added to the output shaft sends torque to the front axle in four-wheel-drive models.

While the manual transaxle is lubricated with 3.5 quarts of hypoid-gear oil, the PDK requires two types of lubricant. Gears and shafts run in 3.7 quarts of hypoid-gear oil. Another 5.7 quarts of  hydraulic oil keep the PDK’s wet clutches and control circuit happy. Naturally, the PDK trans is the heavier unit. Including its lubricants and oil cooler, it weighs 256 pounds. The manual transaxle weighs 189 pounds, not counting its clutch components.

Breaking a long-standing tradition, the new 911’s top speed (ranging between 178 and 189 mph) occurs in sixth, not top, gear. The overdrive seventh-gear ratios—0.617:1 (PDK), 0.711:1 (manual)—help maximize highway mileage while minimizing driveline commotion. Third- and seventh-gear ratios are specific to each gearbox; the rest are shared between the two transaxles.

One minor hitch is the manual’s five-gate shift pattern. According to Porsche, this is a necessity. First and reverse gears had to be in close proximity for convenience, and moving first from its traditional 911 upper-left location was not an option. That leaves seventh all by its lonesome in the extra gate.

Our hats are off to Porsche for both *saving a manual and for improving the 911’s functionality by adding a seventh gear ratio."
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:43 PM
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I don't know I don't know I don't know... I'm going back and forth on the fence...

The decision is either:

C4S with X51

or

GT3
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:56 PM
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Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
Duh. PDK is a dual-clutch as opposed to single-clutch sequential. Don't really understand the 100ms boast now. DCT's have virtually no lag in shift time as you show above. It'll be interesting to see what's leading to the very slow shift times for this PDK.

Here's a C&D review of the current PDK. Note the 67lb weight gain over the manual, which is dead in-line with what's being quoted for the PDK in the 991 GT3.
I remember reading that review; good comparison of the two transmissions. With regard to the 100ms claim, in the interview Preuninger uses the 100ms number, the phrase, "less than" 100ms, and also says that it's the fastest shifting DCT available to the public. Something lost in translation? Otherwise hard to explain.

Something seems a little strange with the numbers above, though. Audi/VW DCT boxes shifting at 8ms? My wife has a DCT in her Audi and it certainly doesn't bang off shifts like PDK in my CS. They are very quick, and the new box is supposed to be even faster. I don't think "very slow" is a particularly accurate description.

Also, FWIW, the new PDK-s is supposed to weigh 2.5 KG less than the previous version, which shaves 5.5 lbs off the difference to the manual.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:07 PM
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The weight gain of the PDK was comparing to 6-speed manual in the prior GT3, not the 7-speed PDK-derived manual offered in current 991 Carreras. The gain was quoted as 30kg (66lbs).

On a separate note, some interesting details here: http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911...l/?gtabindex=1

In addition to new 410mm front diameter for PCCBs, the rears are now 390mm.
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