What not to like about 991 GT3....
03-11-2013, 03:10 PM
#61
Race Director
03-11-2013, 03:28 PM
#62
[QUOTE]yes..but what do I want to say with that? Porsche completely messed this one up..why the hell has the new engine not been put in the CUP, RSR etc? Because they wasted years where they had the time to develop the new engine..now they just get it ready for the new GT3..but they had no time to gain experience on the track..so they are forced to use the old engine since they have simply no other choice..or do you see another option?
PS: keep in mind that in 2007 Porsche tried to put the 9A1 engine in the 3.8 GT3 - didnt work. This was 6 years ago..so why 6 six later - we still dont see a new engine in the race car?/QUOTE]
I think they wasted their time with the hybrid GT3 that raced a year or two ago. engineers should have made that 9A1 engine work in the gt3 back then, to showcase this technology and new engine being used today.
PS: keep in mind that in 2007 Porsche tried to put the 9A1 engine in the 3.8 GT3 - didnt work. This was 6 years ago..so why 6 six later - we still dont see a new engine in the race car?/QUOTE]
I think they wasted their time with the hybrid GT3 that raced a year or two ago. engineers should have made that 9A1 engine work in the gt3 back then, to showcase this technology and new engine being used today.
03-11-2013, 03:57 PM
#63
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Still reads as unlimited demand, which I don't think either of us believes.
I think it would've been really interesting to see the PDK/Manual breakdown had Porsche offered a manual option. My SWAG guess is that it would've been around 70/30. I suspect that 15-20 of the 30 will still take the car with the PDK. Now look at it differently: how would Porsche (or any car company) feel about an overnight 10% drop in demand (again a SWAG) for one of their products?
Way back when in 2008 there was a loud protest from this forum among others when Porsche delivered the first gen 997 GT3 to the US with a mandatory sunroof. Most are of the opinion it was because some marketing "guru" at PCNA decided that Americans couldn't live without a sunroof in their GT3. That error was subsequently rectified with the 997 Gen2 GT3 and I don't recall many, if any, threads in the intervening years bemoaning the lack of a sunroof in the GT3.
Personally, I pulled my '08/'09 deposit and sat on the sidelines for that offering. A lot of others did as well. Porsche eventually got a sale from me with the Gen2 but it could've been two sales.
Now the PDK decision is worldwide and as such I suspect was primarily PAG/VW cost-driven. On the other hand the Sport Bucket snafu appears again to be the work of PCNA thinking they know their customers better than they do and again the result of the manual/sport bucket issue is a not insignificant number of buyers punting their deposits to the RS, me included.
Will they sell all the GT3's they decide to build and import? Almost certainly. Do they want guys like me punting deposits and skipping purchases? I highly doubt it.
I think it would've been really interesting to see the PDK/Manual breakdown had Porsche offered a manual option. My SWAG guess is that it would've been around 70/30. I suspect that 15-20 of the 30 will still take the car with the PDK. Now look at it differently: how would Porsche (or any car company) feel about an overnight 10% drop in demand (again a SWAG) for one of their products?
Way back when in 2008 there was a loud protest from this forum among others when Porsche delivered the first gen 997 GT3 to the US with a mandatory sunroof. Most are of the opinion it was because some marketing "guru" at PCNA decided that Americans couldn't live without a sunroof in their GT3. That error was subsequently rectified with the 997 Gen2 GT3 and I don't recall many, if any, threads in the intervening years bemoaning the lack of a sunroof in the GT3.
Personally, I pulled my '08/'09 deposit and sat on the sidelines for that offering. A lot of others did as well. Porsche eventually got a sale from me with the Gen2 but it could've been two sales.
Now the PDK decision is worldwide and as such I suspect was primarily PAG/VW cost-driven. On the other hand the Sport Bucket snafu appears again to be the work of PCNA thinking they know their customers better than they do and again the result of the manual/sport bucket issue is a not insignificant number of buyers punting their deposits to the RS, me included.
Will they sell all the GT3's they decide to build and import? Almost certainly. Do they want guys like me punting deposits and skipping purchases? I highly doubt it.
03-11-2013, 04:25 PM
#64
Race Director
Surely they must have analyzed all of this, weighing the variables of sales gained and potential losses, sales trends, production costs, expenditure of additional engineering resource, performance targets, etc. How much they factored in good will lost due to deletion of things like MT's and Sport buckets is an open question.
03-11-2013, 04:37 PM
#65
Personally I don't get the whole manual discussion. If one wants a manual, then get a 964 RS or 993 RS. The 997 RS is already far too refined with PSM, TC, etc.
03-11-2013, 04:49 PM
#66
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03-11-2013, 04:51 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Surely they have. In the end it all comes down to ROI. Loosing a few manual diehards while gaining more PDK customers from other brands and keeping the investment to a minimum.
Personally I don't get the whole manual discussion. If one wants a manual, then get a 964 RS or 993 RS. The 997 RS is already far too refined with PSM, TC, etc.
Personally I don't get the whole manual discussion. If one wants a manual, then get a 964 RS or 993 RS. The 997 RS is already far too refined with PSM, TC, etc.
All the mechanical stuff keeps working if you turn of TC and SC. You drive the car.
So far, I've never paid for a repair it was always honored by Porsche under goodwill. Older cars may be more fun, but they break and you pay.
Chevy seems to find a way to keep the car more analog (On paper) and I cant wait to see if I fit in the new $65K C7 Corvette with track seats and a helmet for a test drive.
The new C7 has a manual, track seats as an option and real dry sump, even with a V8 it may be lighter than a 991GT3!!
If I fit it may be an option when the 4.0 runs out of warranty in 2017. I will also test drive the 991RS of course.
With the 991 GT3 VW just gave in to sales numbers and made the GT3 a GTS, perhaps they will turn the 991RS into a proper fun drivers and track car, but that remains to be seen. It will be faster, of course.
Then again, so will the Corvette....
03-11-2013, 05:10 PM
#70
03-11-2013, 05:25 PM
#71
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This could be said about virtually every advance in human history. People are satisfied with what they have because they don't know that there is something better before it's invented. Sometimes it takes a while to let go of the past and realize the advantages of new technology, and some people never want to let go (sound familiar?), but that's the up and downside of progress.
It may be true that Porsche will lose some customers over this decision, although I still believe once the car is out and gets driven and reviewed many of those customers who say they are leaving will be back. For the rest, I suppose this is a disaster, and I honestly can understand that POV and sympathize with their sentiment. But a business opportunity disaster for Porsche? Hardly. They will sell every GT3 they can build.
I have to say, it's ironic that some people are complaining about corporate VW and their focus on profit motive, their stockholders, tailoring their cars to reach a given customer base, and maximizing production efficiencies. I mean, that's a big part of the capitalist system, right? We may not always like it, but surely we all knew how it worked when we signed up for it.
Just playing the devils advocate.....
It may be true that Porsche will lose some customers over this decision, although I still believe once the car is out and gets driven and reviewed many of those customers who say they are leaving will be back. For the rest, I suppose this is a disaster, and I honestly can understand that POV and sympathize with their sentiment. But a business opportunity disaster for Porsche? Hardly. They will sell every GT3 they can build.
I have to say, it's ironic that some people are complaining about corporate VW and their focus on profit motive, their stockholders, tailoring their cars to reach a given customer base, and maximizing production efficiencies. I mean, that's a big part of the capitalist system, right? We may not always like it, but surely we all knew how it worked when we signed up for it.
Just playing the devils advocate.....
Disaster, in a sense that it is a radical departure..this is a 100% turnaround. In the normal 991 you can at least still choose..and dont forget that in a boxster or cayman you still have the 19th century option of a 6 speed..
For sure it will sell..but if it becomes the best selling GT3 ever..second hand prices will tumble like ..if it doesnt sell well, you will drive something very exclusive.
Ill leave it up to you to choose your option..
..PS: Yes, the engineers have maybe not been sleeping..but their strategy is completely.. have you ever thought about the case if the 991 RSR will not be able to hold up? (no matter which 6 Cylinder it has). Porsche will certainly not run behind for another 3 years..they cant do that. Either the 991 RSR changes a few things (that being said - the 997 RSR is still better than many people claim)..or that will be it.
03-11-2013, 05:33 PM
#72
Burning Brakes
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Nice name..
I dont think 964 or 993 owners will consider the 997 as a gizmo car. I knew a few who sold their beloved 964 and 993 to get a 997.1 GT3 or RS. All of them told me the GT3 offers more thrill, more fun..and they all agreed on one thing. The engine is a different world..since you can rev it much higher. Its like in 356 times..75/90 HP or the Carrera 2 with 130..completely different world.
03-11-2013, 05:44 PM
#73
Hi Striling Moss,
Nice name..
I dont think 964 or 993 owners will consider the 997 as a gizmo car. I knew a few who sold their beloved 964 and 993 to get a 997.1 GT3 or RS. All of them told me the GT3 offers more thrill, more fun..and they all agreed on one thing. The engine is a different world..since you can rev it much higher. Its like in 356 times..75/90 HP or the Carrera 2 with 130..completely different world.
Nice name..
I dont think 964 or 993 owners will consider the 997 as a gizmo car. I knew a few who sold their beloved 964 and 993 to get a 997.1 GT3 or RS. All of them told me the GT3 offers more thrill, more fun..and they all agreed on one thing. The engine is a different world..since you can rev it much higher. Its like in 356 times..75/90 HP or the Carrera 2 with 130..completely different world.
My post was of course full of sarcasm and my point was that everything is relative. The 991 GT3 might seem to refined to some 997 owners, but the same holds true to 993 owners versus the 997.
The 991 GT3 might offer more thrill, more fun and the engine might be a different world too. It revs higher after all
Until anyone has driven it we simply don't know.
03-11-2013, 06:37 PM
#75
Burning Brakes
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