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What not to like about 991 GT3....

 
Old 03-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by neanicu View Post
There you go! So by your own statement,they could not have used the new engine in this year's season!
yes..but what do I want to say with that? Porsche completely messed this one up..why the hell has the new engine not been put in the CUP, RSR etc? Because they wasted years where they had the time to develop the new engine..now they just get it ready for the new GT3..but they had no time to gain experience on the track..so they are forced to use the old engine since they have simply no other choice..or do you see another option?

PS: keep in mind that in 2007 Porsche tried to put the 9A1 engine in the 3.8 GT3 - didnt work. This was 6 years ago..so why 6 six later - we still dont see a new engine in the race car?
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:45 PM
  #47  
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I dont think the 20in wheels wil be a big deal as the after mkt will more than likely offer 19s.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:46 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
yes..but what do I want to say with that? Porsche completely messed this one up..why the hell has the new engine not been put in the CUP, RSR etc? Because they wasted years where they had the time to develop the new engine..now they just get it ready for the new GT3..but they had no time to gain experience on the track..so they are forced to use the old engine since they have simply no other choice..or do you see another option?
Agreed!
Though I suspect they didn't trust the 9A1 like they've trusted the Mezger for racing.
But I believe that after they made the RS 4.0,they've realized they can not make more power and have higher revs from the Mezger. They did realize that they can get more out of a direct injection engine and keep the displacement. That combined with new heads with motorcycle style rockers changed the game to a whole new level.
So I believe that switching to direct injection was a huge move for Porsche,a move that requires careful small steps,which take time.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:54 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by neanicu View Post
Agreed!
Though I suspect they didn't trust the 9A1 like they've trusted the Mezger for racing.
But I believe that after they made the RS 4.0,they've realized they can not make more power and have higher revs from the Mezger. They did realize that they can get more out of a direct injection engine and keep the displacement. That combined with new heads with motorcycle style rockers changed the game to a whole new level.
So I believe that switching to direct injection was a huge move for Porsche,a move that requires careful small steps,which take time.
Fully agree..but how can one defend Porsche in such a case..they introduced in 2008 DFI..5 years ago. 458 etc are racing since years DFI ..what are all these engineers doing at Porsche? You cant tell me that they found out this after the 4.0L. The new GT3 engine has probably been developpped since 2-3 years..but it wasnt enough. They were literally sleeping..I hope the 991 RSR can turn around things..if not, they just have to blame themselves.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:20 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
hmm...you know that 100% of GT3s so far were manual? So I suppose that those thousands of customers since 1999..were more or less happy with it. this doesnt mean that some wanted a PdK..but suddenly abolshing manual ones...is from a business opportunity a desaster..

It would be comparable if Apple would tell you from tomorrow on, they would stop production of i-phones- and as a replacement you are now forced to buy a pink tablet. Would you be happy? No company would do somethimg like this...except Porsche in this case..
That's a good point about only manual's in the past. I hadn't considered that even though I knew it to be true. I still hold firm with my statement. The majority of folks buying GT3's aren't buying them for the manual tranny, they're buying them b/c of the look at the "rawness" of the car and experience. They don't track them.

I disagree with your example. Its much too extreme. More appropriate would be if Apple suddenly stopped production of all iPhones except 32gig black ones. Alot of people prefer white, and some don't need that much storage space...some need more. They'd be taking out their market's opinion (be it a majority opinion or not) and just going with what works best for them, whatever their motivation is.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
It would be comparable if Apple would tell you from tomorrow on, they would stop production of i-phones- and as a replacement you are now forced to buy a pink tablet. Would you be happy? No company would do somethimg like this...except Porsche in this case..
Or that Siri was going to be renamed Phil and was going to start asking the questions for you.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by zirrah View Post
I wouldn't be so sure that don't understand their market. Yes, the GT3 is aimed at enthusiasts who the majority of prefer a manual. But I have a feeling Porsche knows what is likely to move more cars.
For sure they understand their market. This market is not just a bunch of diehard purists. If it was, then Porsche would be bankrupt a long time ago (and they almost were because of exactly this reason). The Boxster and Cayenne saved them and without these cars there would have been no GT3s, ever. I think the main driver for the controversial advances in the GT3 is mostly down to the competitors. Porsche could have built a RS 4.0ish car with manual, no gizmos and a 991 shell, but it would not stand up to the competition in the near future. Since they take great pride at being market leader there was no choice really.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
Or that Siri was going to be renamed Phil and was going to start asking the questions for you.
...or that they would change the proven connector which needs manual intervention and offers great involvement of the owner to disconnect... to a new, sleeker and faster connector. Oh hang on, they did
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
Fully agree..but how can one defend Porsche in such a case..they introduced in 2008 DFI..5 years ago. 458 etc are racing since years DFI ..what are all these engineers doing at Porsche? You cant tell me that they found out this after the 4.0L. The new GT3 engine has probably been developpped since 2-3 years..but it wasnt enough. They were literally sleeping..I hope the 991 RSR can turn around things..if not, they just have to blame themselves.
Ok,let's get technical a bit here...my favorite part.
I'm sure most people here know how a direct injection engine works,but for those that don't an explanation wouldn't hurt...
The Mezger engine was using regular injection,which means the fuel injectors were spraying fuel into the intake,where it mixed with air and being sucked into the combustion chamber thru the intake valves where the spark plug fired.
A direct injection engine is not new technology,it has been used many years ago but proved unreliable. This was due to the old technology it was using.
Today's direct injection engines are a different story.
A direct injection engine has the fuel injectors spraying high pressure fuel directly into the combustion chamber,where mixed with air and spark plugs firing produces combustion.
Today's direct injection engines are a lot more reliable due to the technology advancement. High heat resistant injectors,due to their placement directly into the combustion chamber,new and improved ECU mapping,the use of new high pressure fuel lines combined with 2 or even 3 high pressure fuel pumps etc.
I'm sure you have a valid point with other manufacturers using direct injection,but for a flat 6 Porsche engine that needs to be reliable,fuel efficient and make a stand in racing,it was a really HUGE move IMO. A move that will take more than a few years to adapt in all applications,especially in a racing car!
The good news : a direct injection engine has HUGE potential in terms of power and torque! We're talking 600-700 HP easy from a high revving NA engine.
One last point! Porsche can not rely only on their engineers,they are using lots and lots of parts from different manufacturers that sometime prove to be the weak link.
So IMO,Porsche is very smart for not jumping and putting this new engine in a Cup car right away.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:25 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
Fully agree..but how can one defend Porsche in such a case..they introduced in 2008 DFI..5 years ago. 458 etc are racing since years DFI ..what are all these engineers doing at Porsche? You cant tell me that they found out this after the 4.0L. The new GT3 engine has probably been developpped since 2-3 years..but it wasnt enough. They were literally sleeping..I hope the 991 RSR can turn around things..if not, they just have to blame themselves.
Andreas, you forget the fact that things at Porsche have been in a state of flux for the last several years with regard to their financial situation, the botched VW takeover, the economy in general, etc. Once things began to stabilize in those areas, they could think about doing things like expanding the product line, expanding the racing program to include a LeMans prototype, and developing a new GT engine. It probably made sense to soldier on with the tried and true Mezger for a while in the meantime. I'm guessing engineers at Porsche don't spend a lot of time sleeping, but I could be wrong.....
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by StirlingMoss View Post
...or that they would change the proven connector which needs manual intervention and offers great involvement of the owner to disconnect... to a new, sleeker and faster connector. Oh hang on, they did
Google will soon offer the perfect car for you: http://transportationblog.dallasnews...n-austin.html/
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:38 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
Google will soon offer the perfect car for you: http://transportationblog.dallasnews...n-austin.html/
Only in the US. Meanwhile I will enjoy my foldable bucket seats and clubsport package
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:55 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
hmm...you know that 100% of GT3s so far were manual? So I suppose that those thousands of customers since 1999..were more or less happy with it. this doesnt mean that some wanted a PdK..but suddenly abolshing manual ones...is from a business opportunity a desaster..
This could be said about virtually every advance in human history. People are satisfied with what they have because they don't know that there is something better before it's invented. Sometimes it takes a while to let go of the past and realize the advantages of new technology, and some people never want to let go (sound familiar?), but that's the up and downside of progress.

It may be true that Porsche will lose some customers over this decision, although I still believe once the car is out and gets driven and reviewed many of those customers who say they are leaving will be back. For the rest, I suppose this is a disaster, and I honestly can understand that POV and sympathize with their sentiment. But a business opportunity disaster for Porsche? Hardly. They will sell every GT3 they can build.

I have to say, it's ironic that some people are complaining about corporate VW and their focus on profit motive, their stockholders, tailoring their cars to reach a given customer base, and maximizing production efficiencies. I mean, that's a big part of the capitalist system, right? We may not always like it, but surely we all knew how it worked when we signed up for it.

Just playing the devils advocate.....
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:02 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
They will sell every GT3 they can build.
I think it would be more accurate to say that they will build every car they think they can sell.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:05 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by StirlingMoss View Post
Only in the US. Meanwhile I will enjoy my foldable bucket seats and clubsport package
Being US-based, I can't compete with that
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