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What not to like about 991 GT3....

 
Old 03-10-2013, 10:35 PM
  #16  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by 911SLOW View Post
Mike, it took me 5 minutes with a '99 GT3 to give up on the 993RS. Yes that RS. And yes it was that good, probably the best car to ever leave a factory.

And I only post about it sporadically.

You haven't driven a 991GT3 (none of us has) and yet you have posted more pros about the car than anybody including Porsche's marketing team.

There's always a flip side.

Besides, let us act like forum kids now that we can.
Perhaps AP was right and this IS the best GT3 to date.. I'll let you know in about 12 months..
John, the overwhelming majority of my posts have been in response to people making negative comments when they really knew nothing about the car; and to some extent still don't. I've consistently taken a wait and see attitude, while trying to counter some of the more obvious unsupported opinions and misinformation that are constantly being repeated. If that makes me "pro" for the car, then I admit to that.

One thing I've never done is to mock anyone who has a different opinion with generic insults, unlike the folks who so cleverly throw out the Cars and Coffee, latte sipping, boulevard racer, poseur, etc. references to describe those who might have an interest in buying the car. I've been trying to act like an adult; didn't mean to spoil the kids fun.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:44 PM
  #17  
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Personal insults are not welcome in Rennlist! If we missed one, please feel free to point it out. OTOH, humor and dry wit are.

For the time being, better bring Mike the kid here to enjoy the show.
After all, these are just toys.. expensive, but toys nevertheless.

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Old 03-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #18  
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From "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert M. Pirsig; p.165 -

(Pirsig speaking ) "The test of the machine is the satisfaction if gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquillity it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed. The test of the machine's always you own mind. There isn't any other test."

DeWeese asks, "What if the machine is wrong and I feel peaceful about it?"

Laughter.

I reply, "That's self-contradictory. If you really don't care you aren't going to know it's wrong. The thought'll never occur to you. The act of pronouncing it wrong's a form of caring"
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:50 PM
  #19  
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Mike, with respect, discussing doubts, misgivings, and concerns is not being "negative" or "mocking". And as John pointed out, a dash of humor, sarcasm, and feeble attempts (at least in my case) at wit sort of make it fun!

Lighten up. You're right--no one has driven the car. But some of us HAVE seen parts of this movie before...
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:56 PM
  #20  
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1-5 agree
6. Not a problem
7. Unknown maintenance costs
8. More subtle rear wing option ala ducktail
9. Corny race track button ... one push and you're an F1 driver and your warranty is voided
10. Porsche marketing watching too many Fast and Furious movies, drinking Redbull, and playing Forza Mortorsports on their PSPs.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:09 PM
  #21  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Haven't you guys tired of this yet?
Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Well sure, but let's at least hear some complaints or POV's that haven't already been expressed, like, 500 times. Something original; hold my interest......
Originally Posted by 911SLOW View Post
OTOH, humor and dry wit are.
For the time being, better bring Mike the kid here to enjoy the show.

And here I thought my comments above "complaining about the complaining" were a bit of my own little dry wit! Sorry if it missed it's target. I'll sit quietly and learn....

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:15 PM
  #22  
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They are good 'ole dry wit Mike...

Some of us had different expectations for the car and are having a bit of a sook and a laugh at the expense of the new car... If the car is right for you, just stir us right back and enjoy it when it arrives!!! Don't let the opinions of others influence your feelings on the new gt3...

Just my opinion as adult Chris before the kid returns
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:39 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by gtdoggie View Post
1. No manual tranny offered.
Agree, should have been an option. As much as I understand the reasoning, Germans either still do not understand their biggest market (the US) or they don't care. No question the decision not to offer a good, manual, zero cost 6 speed option lost them credibility in the US, even if it would have cost them a little money. Hubris- 90% of the time the engineers do know best, 10% of the time they miss. Here they missed- at least one model of transition to the new PDK was needed, and Porsche should have upped the development budget to offer it.

2. Newly designed unproven for racing 9a1 engine currently has no connection to Porsche racing and for the first time is a take off of the production engine. Bye bye Mezger.
Goodbye and good riddance to the Mezger. The major mistake, I believe, was the decision (or schedule slip) that saw the first year 991 cup released with the old motor. Porsche: test on your own dime, not the customer's. Otherwise we were long overdue for modern technology, as I've said before. The 100+ lb weight advantage vs the old power to weight standard will keep the 911 in the game a while longer.

4. No sport bucket seats for a track car!?
This does seem an unnecessary insult to enthusiast customers in the US (again). Like the manual transmission the option uptake might be small, but the people who check the box actually care about cars (and sway opinion). Sure one could get an aftermarket bucket with perfect fit and custom covering for less than Porsche would charge for the bucket seats, but if you're buying a new car you want factory options.

5. Weighs more than we all expected
The weight issue is blown way out of proportion by enthusiasts IMHO. These are just numbers on a page, and frankly Porsche has been lying about its weights for years. The GT3 R/ RS/ RSRs have steadily gotten heavier, and today they are heavier than many street cars, and yet they have gotten steadily faster and better. Hell, my 911 uses a modern motor and brakes and has hundreds of lbs of weight advantage on a modern cup car (~2150 lbs). But the point is that for all that extra weight in the modern car you're getting performance, and it makes the overall package a better tool for going fast (though maybe not more fun). The 4% weight the added (pretty much entirely explained by rear steer and PDK) will make the car much faster, not slower. So, do care about the weight on the specs on a page, or do you want to care about the best car?

It's the same story every time a new 911 is introduced. "It's lost what makes it a 911, it's too civilized, too many creature comforts and too heavy." Seriously, you'll find articles from the early '70s saying the exact same thing.

Yes the base platform is not hard-core enough for some, which has again been the pattern since the 911 introduced. It's called "progress", like it or not. If you don't approve, you have almost 50 years worth of used models to choose from, you can build something much more fun and involving, or you can wait for an RS.

I will personally not buy a 991 GT3. Unfortunately I feel Porsche, as usual, is leaving something in reserve and not making the best car they can, or listening to me as a customer (though I understand I'm not their target customer, it'd be nice to get some love). Perhaps the RS will address these issues.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:02 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
RWS

Faux centerlocks
Not sure if this has been posted, but quoting from a 106 page "confidential" product news PDF a dealer friend shared:

Central locking

The central locking on the new 911 GT3 is a completely new development with higher load limits and improved suitability for track use. The new 911 GT3-specific central lock is identi- fied by a more robust wheel hub for a significantly improved camber stability and carrier bolts that are now fixed to the wheel hub (997 GT3 II: fastened to the brake chamber).

The significantly improved connection system is enhanced by larger bearing journals and larger wheel bearings that are now identical to the 911 GT3 Cup racing cars. The central screws have a friction-optimised trapezoidal screw thread and a thread runout with reduced notch effect. The new central screws can be recognised visually by the revised ring gear. The dimensions and the basic shape of the central screws have been retained and the teeth re-accented by distinctive spaces between them. The central screws are anodised black on the new 911 GT3 and have a black wheel hub cover with a silver-coloured “GT3” logo.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:44 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by luffe View Post

Not sure if this has been posted, but quoting from a 106 page "confidential" product news PDF a dealer friend shared:
"...now identical to the 911 GT3 Cup racing cars."

Oh, after having read the posts on this forum I was led into belief that this new GT3 is no longer race derived *tongue in cheek*

Had the pleasure to read this document too. A lot of very interesting information. Nice to see some facts for a change after all the whining going in.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:53 AM
  #26  
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They are referring just to a bearing.... Hardly an achievement...
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:02 AM
  #27  
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I'd hold off on that judgment....you'd need to see the dynamic finite element analysis for the force distribution corroborated by the test logs....before dismissing the new design...and I doubt that will be forthcoming...

small changes in design can elicit some marked advances in robustness.

Pity...because it would go a long way to building confidence that - as with the PCCB's - Porsche has iterated/engineered its way (somewhat) out of a problem...
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:17 AM
  #28  
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How much impact did the "faulty" CL have? Were there many vehicles involved in accidents? Or was it mainly a TSB recall?
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:06 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bill_C4S View Post
I'd hold off on that judgment....you'd need to see the dynamic finite element analysis for the force distribution corroborated by the test logs....before dismissing the new design...and I doubt that will be forthcoming...

small changes in design can elicit some marked advances in robustness.

Pity...because it would go a long way to building confidence that - as with the PCCB's - Porsche has iterated/engineered its way (somewhat) out of a problem...
Not dismissing the new design BillC4S, just pointing out that the reference to Cup car like refers to the bearings and not the new CL system as a whole...

ps. don't expect finite analysis data as they have been in denial about the 997.2 system until 3 months ago when seemingly it was decided that the buck would be passed.

Originally Posted by StirlingMoss View Post
How much impact did the "faulty" CL have? Were there many vehicles involved in accidents? Or was it mainly a TSB recall?
SM, there were over a dozen cars that appeared on forums having lost wheels (not known how many others there may be), there have been 2 recalls, several changes and now Porsche have decided they can't be jacked fixing the problem so they have given the hubs a life span of 7000km and have passed on repair bills to customers in the thousands of $$$ as "maintenance" for the system... You should wander over to the 997 gt2/3 forum and read up because it may well be very relevant to the new car... They haven't as yet indicated what the CL maintenance schedule will be for the new car.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:28 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by gtdoggie View Post
While undoubtedly there are many great things to like about the new 991 GT3(chassis, 9k redline, etc)I thought I would put together a list of things we seem to be unhappy about in relation to our beloved older GT3's. Please feel free to comment or add to the list if I forgot something. Also my apologies if this offends anyone who has orderered or covets the new GT3. I actually think it looks good and I'm sure the PDK is cool in a lot of ways.

1. No manual tranny offered. This has to be no 1 on the list and has been covered in other threads to exhaustion.

2. Newly designed unproven for racing 9a1 engine currently has no connection to Porsche racing and for the first time is a take off of the production engine. Bye bye Mezger.

3. Electronic steering feel yet to be determined.

4. No sport bucket seats for a track car!?

5. Weighs more than we all expected

6. Center console?
How many times does it need to be said???!!!
THIS IS NOT A NEWLY DESIGNED 9A1 ENGINE!!!
Racing unproven...YES!
Modified( '' newly designed ''...however you want to call it...)9A1 engine...NOPE!
Unless any of you guys were involved in the engineering process of the new engine,I'll take and believe AP's statement :
'' The only common parts with the 9A1 engine that go in the new GT3 engine are :
1) Crankcase...and here the most important aspect should be mentioned : the raw crankcase is from the 9A1 engine. This means the cast aluminum crankcase block. That goes thru the machining process for the new engine,which most likely will result in new design(oil passages,cooling etc).
2) Heads bolts...?! You're kidding me?! Bolts mean 9A1 engine ?!
3) Drivetrain chains
4) Generator
EVERYTHING ELSE IS NEW ! ''
End quote.
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