TRAKCAR

I'm dipping the torch.

zirrah

Agreed. My concern is that they are tired of the GT-R beating gt-3's around the ring with ease. PDK helps even the playing field a bit. I have a feeling the RS will be more of the same.

Hopefully they offer a manual in the RS. That way maybe 997 RS's will go down so I can afford one in a few years lol

consolidated

Got a light?

I have a feeling the pendulum will start swinging the other way when we find out how capable this car is. 3.3 seconds to 60 is phenomenal, some pretty rare air.

DrJay

I wonder... Considering you have not driven it, on what are you basing your conclusion that the GT3 has gone soft?

the PDK lever in the GT3 has been reversed to mimic the sequential...

shizzle

Apparently so few cars were bought with bucket seats in North America that they just decided to drop them altogether.

Z356

Not the whole story, my friend. Who told you that? Let me take a wild guess - your friendly local dealer?

Saludos,
Eduardo

savyboy

Ain't that just a big 'ole Goatse? Haha...how things change, oh my.

shizzle

Not the dealer. A person with a CGT and 918 coming soon. Not that it makes the rumours any more authoritative.

Sounds like you might know more, care to share?

I know! It's so odd to think adaptive sport seats are more preferable to sport bucket seats in a GT3.

Horstair

I've been biting my tongue, or in internet lingo, cupping my finger tips on this seat issue. While I couldn't agree more that we should have a CHOICE of racing vs casual DE seat (sport buckets vs sport or *** seats), let's not bash those *** seats altogether, okay? While the RS crowd wants and probably should have the GT2 seats, they just need to wait for the RS. The GT3 has ALWAYS come standard with NON-RACING seats.
As far as the *** seats are concerned, I've tracked for two years now, over 40 track-days, with my *** seats and it's really not a problem on short tracks as far as fatigue goes (and they are absolutely a dream on long drives!). Yes, my shoulders are tired at day's end from holding on to the steering wheel a little too much because of the lack of a harness but if you're of small to medium (i.e. not AMERICAN) frame, you're good. Besides, like someone mentioned earlier, if you have a long upper torso like I do, you DO NOT FIT into the racing seats. I "test-sat" with my helmet on and it didn't work plus the headrest (top portion of the GT2 seat is angled forward) is extremely uncomfortable, at least for me, to seat in a car like this. And if you're approaching the latter stage of your life (when you most can afford your GT3 :-), lumbar support and various adjustments is HEAVEN...and adjusting, i.e. "leaning" the seat backwards to gain headroom doesn't work for people with bad backs...
As far as safety goes, that's all relative to your risk management strategy. If I were good enough to drive ***** out, I would have a 6-point, HANS, and a FULL cage but I'm not, like most GT3 drivers and for us, the *** seats are not that bad.
What we should have, like the Aston Martins, the new Corvette, and others come standard with is comfortable, adjustable, somewhat light-weight seats with pass through at the shoulders and the seat bottom so the customer can decided what to do. Unfortunately, Porsche hasn't figured this out yet...
Again, I think *** seats in a "regular" GT3 are good. I rest in peace, no flames please.
Horst.

orthojoe

True. However, they were always an option in the past. In fact, they were an option for any sports car in the prior Porsche lineup until the new generation of cars arrived. Those seats are still available to any 991 or 981 outside of the US. However, it has completely disappeared for the USDM. It sounds like it won't be available in the RS either. Horrible.

Z356

From an earlier post I made recently on a different thread on this forum:

"There is one thing that is beginning to concern me here. As many of you know, US dealers have never been big fans of the optional gt2-type 'sport bucket seats'. They claim it was hard to sell any Porsche on their lot that had them. They rarely ordered them on any gt3, Spyder or Cayman R bought on speculation for inventory (as opposed to a pre-ordered by an enthusiast customer). Dealers even object to having them offered at all by PCNA because, they figure, sooner or later (trades, lease returns, etc), all of these gt2 sport bucket Porsches will have to be resold via their dealer network! And it will make their work that much harder! The horror! So, could US dealers have secretly & successfully lobbied PCNA to NOT to offer the gt2 buckets on the 991 gt3? Certainly possible and indeed plausible!

Which gets me back to the ominous statement of FJones, who is extremely well connected at PCNA and a gt3 owner himself. His statement was "The option 'P03 - Sport Bucket Seats' will not be available for the US". If true, that is indeed very sad news. It means that PCNA is saving the gt2 type sport bucket for ONLY the RS in our market! That policy is doing a disservice to many prospective 991 gt3 customers in the US and shows a kind of hubris on the part of PCNA & its dealer network which is going to be hard to accept...or forgive in the long run!"

****************

I also have some empirical evidence to show you how dealers vs customers ordered seating on recent Porsche models where the gt2 seats were offered here in the US as a no-cost option. I studied closely the MY2012 Spyders that were the manufactured in July of 2011 and sent to the United States. These were the last Spyders ever built! These were my conclusions:

"So here is my analysis of the data I posted above...Background: the Boxster Spyder arrived as an early '11 in the spring of 2010 and over 600 sold in the past 1 1/2 years (US). By the time these US Porsche dealers are ordering their last batch of allocations for the '12 Spyder (say late April or May of 2011), they should have known what is most desirable and in demand for this model...or did they?

Our test sample includes 18 cars with very late Vin #'s. Of these, only four appeared to be ordered to owner's custom specs - z356's 5187, 5188, JSF's 5189, Jabbey's 5195 & 5202. Three of these cars had manual transmissions and sport buckets. Only one had PDK and (probably) sport leather seats. On the other hand, of the 13 other cars ordered on spec by dealers, 8 were ordered with PDK and 10 with Sport Leather Seats. So you see here that dealers are inclined to order PDK and the easier to get in/out sport leather seats (regardless the desirability of 6-speed & the carbon fiber buckets from enthusiasts posting in our forums).

It seems like nearly all of these 18 cars were ordered with A/C, Bi-Xenons and optional Sound Pkg Plus (except #5188), so it came with either standard radio or PCM. Only one individual, JSF101, ordered his car without a Radio or Bi-Xenons, although he made a concession to A/C (Texas heat!). Most dealers ordering PDK went with Sport Chrono and optional Sport Design paddle shifter. But not all, two dealers stuck to the standard wheel with button shifters. Even manuals were mostly ordered with Sport Chrono. The latter seems to rule, regardless the negativity often heard about the 'wart' at the forums. A few cars were ordered with Sport Exhaust. Fewer still with Sport Shifter. Only 5 cars were ordered with full leather, of which 3 were special ordered. Three interiors were done in Carrera Red and one in Sand Beige. Only one person - JSF101's - ordered full leather with his black interior. So bottom line, dealers shy away from full leather, especially when ordering black interiors. Only one dealer forgot to order the heat option with his sport leather seats - the Autobahn store in Forth Worth. Even in Texas, you have cool nights for three seasons. This is a ordering mistake, in my opinion.

Six cars were ordered Black. Two cars were ordered in each of these colors - Carrara White, Guards Red, Platinum Silver & Aqua Blue. One was done in Basalt Black Metallic. None were ordered in the special color (extra $3K+) that few seem to like - Cream White - and almost no one has paid to have it on their Spyder during the two year production run for this model. Three cars were done PTS which were, by design, all bunched up for production at the very end of the run. The standard black interiors (mostly in vinyl except for the leather in the seats) ruled. Only one car has the expensive ($2.6K) DBA Alcantara pkg (wheel, shifter, e-brake), although mine has the $655 'Additional Alcantara Pkg' (door panels & arm rests).

I think it is an interesting analysis of the way dealers ordered Spyders vs how individuals did their specs. Very few took advantage of the unique possibilities available to them via Porsche Exclusive. Only one, JSF101, was able to get PTS approved as an individual customer. The other two PTS were ordered by well-connected dealers experienced in ordering PTS in their other models. I hope this changes in the future and both dealers & individual customers get more creative with their sport car builds."

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...to-the-us.html

******************

Shizzle, if you make a similar study of what seats were ordered by customers vs dealer (for spec inventory) on the .2 gt3's and even some .2 gt3 RS, you will find the same degree of dealer bias in favor of ordering the more comfortable 'sport seats' rather than the gt2 sport buckets! That is PART of the bigger story here! The US dealer network has played (in my opinion) a major role in convincing PCNA not to allow the gt2 seats to be offered on the 991 gt3!

BUT PCNA was easily convinced not to offer gt2 sport buckets seats on the 991 gt3 because they (and their lawyers) want to see LESS 991 gt3's at the track than more. That is the SECOND part of this story. Not having the proper seat is an obstacle and gives them some legal cover ('not intended to be taken to the track'), a sort of unsigned waiver! Most 991 gt3's that are going to be used hard at the track will need to change seats and the lawyers think this 'extra step' will help them down the road should a legal case surface. The reason for this 'shift' is due to the real issues that recent .1 & .2 gt3's have suffered under intense track usage (CL, faulty hoses, etc). The fact is that our US laws offer more protection of the customer (and injured parties) than in other world market. So any adverse gt3 incidents here (e.g. deaths caused by fault of the car) will have real legal & financial consequences for PAG and PCNA in our US jurisdiction!

This is a major 'shift' in marketing and reality for the 991 gt3 in the US and it will have major consequences for our hobby here! I think PAG is hoping that the upcoming 991 gt3 RS will be bullet-proof and thus be designated as the proper 'track' car for the US enthusiasts. That is the model they will want to 'push' us to use on the track as 'amateurs'. That is what the PCNA's lawyers are praying will happen! We will see. But 'caveat emptor'.

Saludos, z356

mooty

delete, politically incorrect post.
get ppl's knickers all tied up.

mooty

delete

Horstair

I still think the *** seats are not that bad even though a CHOICE between (racing and non-racing) seats would be nice like in the past...

Horstair

Just wait a few years, Mooty... You'll change your mind :-)