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-   991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r-229/)
-   -   Andreas Preuninger Car Interview (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/744117-andreas-preuninger-car-interview.html)

aussie jimmy 03-06-2013 08:22 PM

i'm emotional

aussie jimmy 03-06-2013 08:27 PM

991 gt3 - poetry in emotion.

maybe i can get a job in advertising?

pcar964 03-06-2013 09:12 PM

haha so what he said is basically "I'm an enthusiast... but we had to ditch the analog in favor of gizmos because all our competitors are doing it."

axhoaxho 03-06-2013 09:41 PM

As an interview, Andreas Preuninger delivered it very well and smoothly. A little more diplomatic and less enthuse than he used to be years ago, but wouldn't blame him.

Couldn't help but sense a lot of corporate pressure on him though... seems the car was what VW wanted him to build instead of what he really wanted.

kosmo 03-06-2013 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by pcar964 (Post 10279909)
haha so what he said is basically "I'm an enthusiast... but we had to ditch the analog in favor of gizmos because all our competitors are doing it."

Yeah. AP is just waiting for his VW stock to vest then hes outta there.
:surr:

brake dust 03-06-2013 09:59 PM

Still find it odd not to have the new engine in the Cup car? The Carerra Cup and Super Cup are one make series with sprint races. What better venue to test a new engine. Getting the feeling that the new engine won't be utilized in Motorsport. Either the 991 RS gets a different engine or maybe the end of the era for the 911 in GT racing and on to a mid engine 918?

Petevb 03-06-2013 10:01 PM

The engine tentatively looks like a good step forward. I understand they will use it in Cup cars starting next year, which will be the definitive reliability test, but based on the numbers so far it looks quite interesting with clear room left for future expansion.

Based on Preuninger's comment that weight is down "around 25 kg" we can give the engine a preliminary improvement of 21% over the last base GT3. This looks like the biggest improvement in GT3 history, as one would expect, and for a 475 hp car allows the engine weight to be reduced by over 100 lbs vs the 997.2 power to weight standard. Put another way, it looks like the new motor has gained about 115 hp (32%) and lost 90 lbs (15%) vs the first GT3 14 years ago- that's progress for you.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8...920717_b_d.jpg

The valvetrain also sounds very interesting from an engine potential point of view. If they have succeeded in allowing removing the valvetrain as the RPM limitation that would be a major advance. The bottom end has a fairly high mean piston speed of 23.3 meters per second, but Audi has already proven that over 26 meters per second is possible in a production car. If the top end allows it, that might suggest that either an even higher peak RPM (up to 10k?) or perhaps more likely a larger displacement through stroking (to 4.0 seems achievable, 4.2 on the very outside).

I suspect Porsche might offer a stripped down, manual only, no rear-steer car at some point, perhaps called something other than the GT3. However I suspect that if they do, there will unfortunately not be very many takers once the hard numbers are understood. I love a manual transmission, but the era is unfortunately coming to a close. The lack of a manual and sheer size (not weight) of the new GT3 are the hardest pills for me to swallow, however- I think the rear-steer and non-metzger engine will prove themselves will come to be accepted.

Mike in CA 03-06-2013 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by paver (Post 10279444)
Maybe you're right concerning the negative comments about the feel. But regarding track worthiness, buy one and then have them impose the 4200 mi replacement schedule for CL hubs/bearings, etc after you have owned it for a couple of years. Things are a lot less glossy when that happens.

CL's-a complicated system that has not proven positive. It's possible the rear wheel steer thing could ultimately fall into that category too. It's reasonable to cast doubts on the new car's track worthiness.

We don't know what changes have been made to the CL's, just that they've been "optomised", whatever that means. Also, the rear wheel steering is described as a simple steering rod linkage, not a complicated electronic "gizmo" so the "possible" problems are just that, possible. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of assumptions flying around out there with very little factual information to back them up, yet.

Mike in CA 03-06-2013 10:12 PM


Originally Posted by Petevb (Post 10280063)
The engine tentatively looks like a good step forward. I understand they will use it in Cup cars starting next year, which will be the definitive reliability test, but based on the numbers so far it looks quite interesting with clear room left for future expansion.

Based on Preuninger's comment that weight is down "around 25 kg" we can give the engine a preliminary improvement of 21% over the last base GT3. This looks like the biggest improvement in GT3 history, as one would expect, and for a 475 hp car allows the engine weight to be reduced by over 100 lbs vs the 997.2 power to weight standard. Put another way, it looks like the new motor has gained about 115 hp (32%) and lost 90 lbs (15%) vs the first GT3 14 years ago- that's progress for you.

The valvetrain also sounds very interesting from an engine potential point of view. If they have succeeded in allowing removing the valvetrain as the RPM limitation that would be a major advance. The bottom end has a fairly high mean piston speed of 23.3 meters per second, but Audi has already proven that over 26 meters per second is possible in a production car. If the top end allows it, that might suggest that either an even higher peak RPM (up to 10k?) or perhaps more likely a larger displacement through stroking (to 4.0 seems achievable, 4.2 on the very outside).

I suspect Porsche might offer a stripped down, manual only, no rear-steer car at some point, perhaps called something other than the GT3. However I suspect that if they do, there will unfortunately not be very many takers once the hard numbers are understood. I love a manual transmission, but the era is unfortunately coming to a close. The lack of a manual and sheer size (not weight) of the new GT3 are the hardest pills for me to swallow, however- I think the rear-steer and non-metzger engine will prove themselves will come to be accepted.

What I also find interesting is AP's comment that they are being very conservative with the HP numbers, and that if they said the engine had 500HP they would be very comfortable with that number for homologation puposes.

Guest89 03-06-2013 10:28 PM


Originally Posted by Mike in CA (Post 10280089)
We don't know what changes have been made to the CL's, just that they've been "optomised", whatever that means. Also, the rear wheel steering is described as a simple steering rod linkage, not a complicated electronic "gizmo" so the "possible" problems are just that, possible. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of assumptions flying around out there with very little factual information to back them up, yet.

And yet it draws so much current that it prevented use of the old lightweight battery...? I think he's being obtuse.

jumper5836 03-06-2013 11:37 PM

Yeah or neigh

Andreas Preuninger: PDK and Paddles ( what he said at the Gen 2 RS Launch in 2010 )
no heavy, flappy paddle gearbox (Preuninger: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging")
Source Top Gear


But Preuninger didn't burden us with the technicalities. Instead he said, "First, the PDK weighs 66 pounds. Second, PDK does not have a clutch you can control, and if you want to do really big drifts, sometimes you need a clutch."

Then he said, "The manual gearbox in the GT3 is the best match for the purist."
Source Porsche 911 GT3 First Drive Video. | October 01, 2009 | Edmunds

Mike in CA 03-06-2013 11:49 PM


Originally Posted by Guest89 (Post 10280168)
And yet it draws so much current that it prevented use of the old lightweight battery...? I think he's being obtuse.

Obviously there must be electric motors which draw current to operate the RWS control rods, and some level of programming which correlates steering wheel movement and RWS activity. That doesn't necessarily mean, though, that the movement of RWS is programmed per se, nor does it mean that the system can't be robust enough for the track which was the original point we were discussing.

Veloce Raptor 03-07-2013 09:08 AM

..

Tacet-Conundrum 03-09-2013 01:39 PM

I've like many others have been.waiting for this day. And I figured, just like many others again, that there would be tonnes of butthurt individuals out there if the 3 had no manual transmission. Alas, that day has come.

I dunno, i like flappy paddles and am grateful that they are finally a reality. That comes from my halcion high school days playing Super Monico GP in the arcades.

And Im also confused about going to electronic steering? Makes good sense for a front engine layout where it would be beneficial to.eliminate the steering assembly from around the engine.

Mike in CA 03-09-2013 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by Tacet-Conundrum (Post 10287451)
I've like many others have been.waiting for this day. And I figured, just like many others again, that there would be tonnes of butthurt individuals out there if the 3 had no manual transmission. Alas, that day has come.

I dunno, i like flappy paddles and am grateful that they are finally a reality. That comes from my halcion high school days playing Super Monico GP in the arcades.

And Im also confused about going to electronic steering? Makes good sense for a front engine layout where it would be beneficial to.eliminate the steering assembly from around the engine.

The steering assembly has not been eliminated. There is still a mechanical connection, with conventional steering linkages and a steering rack all the way from the steering wheel to the front hubs. The difference is that there is now an electric motor integral with the steering rack that provides power assist instead of the previous hydraulic system. This eliminates all of the hydraulic lines, hydraulic fluid, and the parasitic hydraulic pump running off of the engine. Supposedly the software controlling the electric assist has been completely redone for the GT3 and the claim is that steering feel is as good as the previous system. TBD.


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