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991 GT3 Weight Gain

 
Old 03-07-2013, 01:15 AM
  #16  
StirlingMoss
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
I agree.
Me too
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:33 AM
  #17  
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In the "Preuninger video," he says the 997.2 GT3 is "only" 30 Kg lighter than the 991 GT3. It seems to me that Porsche is holding some lightweight parts bin engineering for the RS. This GT3 could readily have composite carbon fibre parts for the front fenders, frunk, engine cover and wing. Cost is neither here not there -- that's a misdirection from what the car could have had or been offered as an option. Remove the "mandatory" PCM and centre console stack along with all the associated creature comfort stuff that didn't exist as of the 996 GT3. Take a simplified version of the inevitable 918 Spyder seats. Don't put in heavy LED headlights and tail lights, instead, take those out and offer pathetic incandescent assemblies. Who drives the track in the dark? If so, get some targa rally lights and clamp them onto the nose of the car. Go with humble 19's and offer 396mm PCCB rotors (I know they fit inside forged 19's from OZ Racing Superforgiatta wheels ... nothing too complex there.)

So a "stock" 991 GT3 could well end up being pretty light. Aftermarket wheels, tires, brake rotors, calipers, seats, PCM "rip out" delete along with various cabin trim, tools and front trunk trim, maybe a lightweight battery still capable of serving the rear steer brushless motors, and a composite frunk lid, engine deck lid and wing. What's all that? 300 lbs? 400lbs? I remember some folks gutting the 997.1 GT3 when it arrived. Maybe Rennlisters should start some sort of indiegogo crowd-funded "add lightness" start-up to deliver a kit of parts to reduce the weight of the 991 GT3.

I think it's feeble to insist upon PDK and rear steer, but let's just take those as necessary "advances" and not ask for those 15 Kg's of rear steer or who knows, 15 Kg's more of miscellaneous "product content."

I think of this overweight GT3 in the context of a Range Rover that built an entirely new car, 700lbs+ lighter than the previous model. Over 10% reduction. That would make for a 2700lb GT3. Round figures.

Where's my crowd-funded add-lightness 2500lb GT3?!
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:31 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Mvez View Post
+100.



Porsche (uh, I mean VW) dropped the ball. Hopefully they will redeem themselves with the RS.

Andreas knew after 2012, he would be VW's bitch, hence why we even got the 4.0. Then he could make the calls, but now, clearly somebody else is in charge of final decisions on the GT cars, and it shows, big time. It was even admitted that the gimmicky 4-wheel steering was originally intended for the 991 Turbo, but some corporate douche had to ruin the GT3, and try to make it the void filler in the Porsche lineup to try and steal sales from upmarket buyers of the 458, MP412C, and Audi R8 V10's.

I never thought I'd say this, but kudos to Audi for at least still offering a 6spd manual in the R8.
The R8 is old tech with a 2003 lambo chassis so the 6 speed has been around.

That is precisely how I see the 991 GT3.... 458 and12C at a 50% discount..... but that's how porsche is positioning themselves. offering lots of tech, speed, noise and let non-track flash car buyers some to that conclusion.

It works on me (on the non-track front, that is)
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:21 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
Listen to prior Prueninger release videos of GT3/RS/4.0 and paring weight comes across as religion with the GT3. That's not the case with this car and the stats confirm it:

2009 GT3 1395kg

2010 GT3 RS 1370kg

2011 GT3 RS 4.0 1360kg

2014 Carrera S w/Auto 1415kg

2014 991 GT3 1430kg

So the new GT3 not only weighs well more than its predecessors, it also weighs more than the underlying Carrera on which it's based. And this with a 9A1 engine claimed 25kg (55lbs) lighter than the Mezger it replaces and a body in white claimed 13% lighter than the 997 shell it replaces.

So where did all the weight come from?

We know at least the following:

Automatic transmission (PDK) + 30kg (66lbs).

Rear Steering +15kg (32lbs) incl hardware and larger battery.

GT2 vs CGT seats are about +10kg (22lbs).

Center console? Extra sound deadening?


The other interesting observation is the disconnect from racing and the Cup car with this release. Rewatch the prior-gen GT3/RS/4.0 release videos and you hear constant references to the Cup car, how the GT3 is as close to a race car as it's possible to get, yadda, yadda, yadda. That's totally muted with this latest release.

Strikes me that the sales guys raided the hen-house with the 991 GT3.
Over the 991 Carrera S that it is based on:

- Adding Dry Sump to an engine adds weight.
- The e-diff adds weight
- 380mm rotors front and rear, vs. 991 340mm/330mm rotors (near 20 lbs added)
- 6-pot front calipers
- 9" and 12" wheels are wider and larger
- Bigger (heavier) tires
- heavier body parts (wide body, heavier bumpers)
- PDK-S
- RWS
- Bigger mufflers

Weight Savings:
- rear seats delete

In the past, the Carrera/Boxster/Cayman came with steel doors, and the aluminum doors were reserved for the TT/GT2/GT3/RS/BoxSpyder/CaymanR. But now all the cars come with aluminum doors.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:51 AM
  #20  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by NJ-GT View Post
Over the 991 Carrera S that it is based on:

- Adding Dry Sump to an engine adds weight.
- The e-diff adds weight
- 380mm rotors front and rear, vs. 991 340mm/330mm rotors (near 20 lbs added)
- 6-pot front calipers
- 9" and 12" wheels are wider and larger
- Bigger (heavier) tires
- heavier body parts (wide body, heavier bumpers)
- PDK-S
- RWS
- Bigger mufflers

Weight Savings:
- rear seats delete

In the past, the Carrera/Boxster/Cayman came with steel doors, and the aluminum doors were reserved for the TT/GT2/GT3/RS/BoxSpyder/CaymanR. But now all the cars come with aluminum doors.
I agree with almost all of this except that I believe PDK-S is 2KG lighter than PDK in the S and the S already has e-diff standard.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:55 AM
  #21  
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Deja Vu. The 996.1 GT3 was 30-35 kg heavier when it launched than the base 996 C2 it was based one....

Nothing new here sorry gents.

Given the tech they've packed into the 991 GT3 and the fact they had to weigh it with the heavier chairs then I say they've done pretty good. Ill have some fixed bucket Recaro PPs covered and installed in mine and wine around 35Kg back again making it 1395Kg again....
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:13 AM
  #22  
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quote=Nizer;10277598]Listen to prior Prueninger release videos of GT3/RS/4.0 and paring weight comes across as religion with the GT3. That's not the case with this car and the stats confirm it:

2009 GT3 1395kg

2010 GT3 RS 1370kg

2011 GT3 RS 4.0 1360kg

2014 Carrera S w/Auto 1415kg

2014 991 GT3 1430kg

So the new GT3 not only weighs well more than its predecessors, it also weighs more than the underlying Carrera on which it's based. And this with a 9A1 engine claimed 25kg (55lbs) lighter than the Mezger it replaces and a body in white claimed 13% lighter than the 997 shell it replaces.

So where did all the weight come from?

We know at least the following:

Automatic transmission (PDK) + 30kg (66lbs).

Rear Steering +15kg (32lbs) incl hardware and larger battery.

GT2 vs CGT seats are about +10kg (22lbs).

Center console? Extra sound deadening?


The other interesting observation is the disconnect from racing and the Cup car with this release. Rewatch the prior-gen GT3/RS/4.0 release videos and you hear constant references to the Cup car, how the GT3 is as close to a race car as it's possible to get, yadda, yadda, yadda. That's totally muted with this latest release.

Strikes me that the sales guys raided the hen-house with the 991 GT3.[/quote]





hi nizer,

thanks...without hijacking the thread, why is there between 2009 and 2010 a 25Kg difference...?

PS: 60kg differnce between 2010 GT3 RS and and 2014 GT3..is a lot. Take an old beetle ant put three sacks of cement in there...it wont move anymore..[
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:17 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
Deja Vu. The 996.1 GT3 was 30-35 kg heavier when it launched than the base 996 C2 it was based one....

Nothing new here sorry gents.

Given the tech they've packed into the 991 GT3 and the fact they had to weigh it with the heavier chairs then I say they've done pretty good. Ill have some fixed bucket Recaro PPs covered and installed in mine and wine around 35Kg back again making it 1395Kg again....
You are fully correct..this happened in the past already. But its against Porsches own philosophy of making every new generation lighter..

Fact is however also, that Porsche is still the leader when it comes to lightweight..even with the new "heavier" 991 GT3..if you compare the weight of a 997GT3RS to the weight of the MP4-12..and that one is using full carbon chassis (!)...or the Nissan GTR...its like a "fat truck"..
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:16 AM
  #24  
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What I find most startling regarding weight is that the GT2s were always considered heavyweights for track use by GT3 owners, when I owned 996 and 997 GT2s, yet now the new 991GT3 now weighs a similar amount and is actually 10kg heavier than a late 996 GT2!
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:50 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by GuyR View Post
What I find most startling regarding weight is that the GT2s were always considered heavyweights for track use by GT3 owners, when I owned 996 and 997 GT2s, yet now the new 991GT3 now weighs a similar amount and is actually 10kg heavier than a late 996 GT2!
It takes a real man to drive a 996 GT2.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:32 AM
  #26  
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Default Weight?

Anyone know the official weight of this car? Isn't this one of the most important things about our P cars? I love the light feel of mine.
Jim
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:44 AM
  #27  
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Someone should delete this....
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:31 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 96redLT4 View Post
Anyone know the official weight of this car? Isn't this one of the most important things about our P cars? I love the light feel of mine.
Jim
Sorry guys. I didn't see this thread when I tried to start the topic. What I do see is that the new GT3 weighs almost the same as my 997.1S with 120 more normally aspirated hp. This sounds pretty good to me!
Jim
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:05 PM
  #29  
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Sorry Jim. Didn't mean to be rude....
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