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Old 03-06-2013, 04:38 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by 911rox View Post
I had already answered your question with regards to the german engineer! The 991S isn't track focussed so why would guys buying track cars buy it?

As for the laptime, even at 7.27sec, the 991 is just matching the old 4.0rs dispite pdk and new, improved chassis... So what have they achieved other than to cut the cost of manufacturing and charge the customer an extra 15%???
First of all, a more accurate comparison to the 4.0 would be a 991 GT3 RS...

Second, do you have an official time for the 991 GT3?

Third, what they have accomplished is make the GT3 as fast as the last models top dog special edition RS... What will the new RS do?
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:43 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
First of all, a more accurate comparison to the 4.0 would be a 991 GT3 RS...

Second, do you have an official time for the 991 GT3?

Third, what they have accomplished is make the GT3 as fast as the last models top dog special edition RS... What will the new RS do?
Missed my point... Even IF the 991 gt3 runs it in 7.27 what has it achieved? Its just matched a car with a stick, older chassis and 25hp more... It certainly won't be running low 20's or they wouldn't quote the 7.30ish mark...
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:46 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by 911rox View Post
It certainly won't be running low 20's or they wouldn't quote the 7.30ish mark...
You assume...

What did the old GT3 do, not the 4.0 RS but the plain GT3.

edit: the old plain GT3 is listed at 7:40. So is the new 991 C2S. Compare this GT3 to the old GT3 and save the RS lap times consideration for when the new GT3 RS comes out.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:47 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by 911rox View Post
Missed my point... Even IF the 991 gt3 runs it in 7.27 what has it achieved? Its just matched a car with a stick, older chassis and 25hp more... It certainly won't be running low 20's or they wouldn't quote the 7.30ish mark...
In the right hands, don't bet on it.....
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:50 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
You assume...

What did the old GT3 do, not the 4.0 RS but the plain GT3.
So you're willing to compare your new 991 gt3 to a car with 45hp less but not to one that has 25hp more dispite the 991 having trans and chassis advantages?
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:54 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by 911rox View Post
So you're willing to compare your new 991 gt3 to a car with 45hp less but not to one that has 25hp more dispite the 991 having trans and chassis advantages?
I am saying that this is a GT3, not an RS. Lets make equal comparisons. Second, the new 991 C2S has less hp than the old GT3 and matches its 'Ring times. The new GT3 has more hp and beats the old GT3 by ~10 seconds. If I had to guess I would guess that the new RS will handily beat the old RS.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:40 PM
  #22  
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Porsche is playing catchup, and playing it poorly (although not from a financial standpoint). The 996 and 997 GT3's were on par if not ahead of the Corvette's, Vipers etc. of the time. You had a tough time finding a car that was faster. Jump ahead to 991 and they are releasing a car slower than the previous generation of those cars as well as being only slightly faster than Mustangs and Camaro's now.

The problem is the marriage to 6 cylinders.

What we see here is SPEED (not technology) moving faster than Porsche can keep up with. What happens when you are behind the competition and handicapped? You throw in some gimmicks. You can blame the rear engine all you want, but I don't see any non force fed 6 cylinders at the front of the pack. On the street, or on the track.

Porsche needs to wake up. NA 6 cylinders aren't going to cut in in 2013 and beyond. And all the P-gadgets in the world won't fix it. So guess what, you get a 2013 GT3 with lots of gadgets that's still slower than C6, R35, Gen IV etc.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:46 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Porsche is playing catchup, and playing it poorly (although not from a financial standpoint). The 996 and 997 GT3's were on par if not ahead of the Corvette's, Vipers etc. of the time. You had a tough time finding a car that was faster. Jump ahead to 991 and they are releasing a car slower than the previous generation of those cars as well as being only slightly faster than Mustangs and Camaro's now.

The problem is the marriage to 6 cylinders.

What we see here is SPEED (not technology) moving faster than Porsche can keep up with. What happens when you are behind the competition and handicapped? You throw in some gimmicks. You can blame the rear engine all you want, but I don't see any non force fed 6 cylinders at the front of the pack. On the street, or on the track.

Porsche needs to wake up. NA 6 cylinders aren't going to cut in in 2013 and beyond. And all the P-gadgets in the world won't fix it. So guess what, you get a 2013 GT3 with lots of gadgets that's still slower than C6, R35, Gen IV etc.
I thought speed was not the ultimate consideration for GT3 purchases? Is that not what all the manual transmission whiners are saying?
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:00 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
I thought speed was not the ultimate consideration for GT3 purchases? Is that not what all the manual transmission whiners are saying?

No. You got it completely backwards.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:01 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
No. You got it completely backwards.
Are we reading the same forum?
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:08 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
But how do you know that? Have you driven the new GT3?
Dont need to. The PDK is enough of a deciding factor. I dont care how quick it shifts, its not the trans for me. Ive driven the 12C and 458 and neither trans is what I would want in a P-car.

If you go to the dealer and tell him you want a new 991S and he offers you a Panamera V6, are you really going to buy it because its a "better street car"? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Porsche is playing catchup, and playing it poorly (although not from a financial standpoint). The 996 and 997 GT3's were on par if not ahead of the Corvette's, Vipers etc. of the time. You had a tough time finding a car that was faster. Jump ahead to 991 and they are releasing a car slower than the previous generation of those cars as well as being only slightly faster than Mustangs and Camaro's now.

The problem is the marriage to 6 cylinders.

What we see here is SPEED (not technology) moving faster than Porsche can keep up with. What happens when you are behind the competition and handicapped? You throw in some gimmicks. You can blame the rear engine all you want, but I don't see any non force fed 6 cylinders at the front of the pack. On the street, or on the track.

Porsche needs to wake up. NA 6 cylinders aren't going to cut in in 2013 and beyond. And all the P-gadgets in the world won't fix it. So guess what, you get a 2013 GT3 with lots of gadgets that's still slower than C6, R35, Gen IV etc.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
I thought speed was not the ultimate consideration for GT3 purchases? Is that not what all the manual transmission whiners are saying?
Its not about speed for many, its about the driving experience. If I wanted the quickest track car I certainly wouldnt buy a GT3 to meet the goal. I have a couple that will run circles around even the 991 GT3 on a track.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #27  
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But the 991 S is a perfect street car...

And you may want to let wanna911 know that your main concern is not speed...
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:42 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
But the 991 S is a perfect street car...

And you may want to let wanna911 know that your main concern is not speed...
Perfect for some, sure. To me, the PDK is boring, the suspension too soft, the response not sharp enough, doesnt have enough power, the exhaust note boring, the steering a bit numb, etc... I havent driven a manual version yet, but I will soon enough and I can come to my own conclusions on that. The 991S is a great street car, and most the things that bother me can be fixed, but a .2 GT3 is still a better choice for me.

I know what he was getting at, and its also an area I dont agree with Porsche. The GT3 doesnt need to be the quickest car on the track (like Porsche seems to think). Its about a pure driving experience which is quickly disappearing, much to my chagrin.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:45 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Joe S. View Post
And then you would have a Cayman.

Now it seems it won't be too difficult to put a GT3 motor in a Cayman. Can't wait to see someone do this and see what the Cayman can do! And with no CL's or rear wheel steering!
BBi (custom shop in huntington beach) has already put a GT3 engine in a cayman. transmission was the fun part
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:48 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 911rox View Post

FYI, if pdks are fasest, why is the 4.0 RS faster around the NBR with its slow 6 speed? It only has a 25hp advantage yet carries disadvantages in chassis and transmission according to you... Or are we just hoping to win the traffic light drag races with tech loaded wannabe GT3s?... Maybe they can throw in seat warmers as it can get cold at the track too???....
Aero, and almost 150 lbs lighter.
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