Where's Rad?
03-06-2013, 08:38 AM
#31
Apparently the 993 wasn't really the involving drivers car everyone remembered being. CAR test drove every 911 model from the beginning a few issues ago and the 993 didn't get a good rating. The 964 was the show stopper and believe it or not the 996 was also up there too.
S
S
03-06-2013, 08:38 AM
#32
Sebring is destructive. The super soft sprung Aero Beetles do not survive Sebring either. Lots of blown engines and transmissions on 3.8 aero beetles in the past 2 years with nowhere near my track miles in the fiat, and two 4.0rs with kaboom engines too.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
This is the one true win for the 991 GT3
Price a Carrera S with powerkit (still not 475 hp), aerokit and PASM...you'll be north of $131k.
wsh
03-06-2013, 10:39 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
03-06-2013, 12:39 PM
#34
Race Director
03-06-2013, 04:15 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
As for Sebring, yes I do know a bit my way around the track, and only to scheduled to have around 20 hrs of tracktime there next week.
The 991 is on paper a great car and as Rad points out the value it brings at a cost of $131k is amazing. I'm just dissapointed of so much whinning and rant in this board just because it is a proper modern (with adequate technology) car that can hold its own at the track. And all those comments on "feel" without having driven the car at all are just plain BS (applies to comments in the Scud without having driven one either...)
as for Porsche GT cars and Cup cars: The great thing about the Porsche Cup is its value. its the only real racecar that is mas produced, and hat has allowed Porsche to make it commercailly viable to have a GT3 version for the street that shares a lot of components with the Cup Car. The Porsche GT3 Cup is the Ford Model T of racecars. you get a lot of racecar for what it costs, but by no means is the best racecar out there. Not even if you scale it up to GTE (fka GT2) level (Porsche RSR), other manufacturers cars are equivalent or better at that cost. Just drive both (Porsche vs Ferrari, or vs Merc or BMW at FiA GT3 levels) and you will see there are massive differences and the Porsche felt clearly dated.
03-06-2013, 04:23 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Sebring is destructive. The super soft sprung Aero Beetles do not survive Sebring either. Lots of blown engines and transmissions on 3.8 aero beetles in the past 2 years with nowhere near my track miles in the fiat, and two 4.0rs with kaboom engines too.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
Had a chance to buy this same spec about three years back for $65k:
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...s/1525512.html
Care to guess the ask on this one?
http://sloancars.com/3147/1995-993-c...k-30900-miles/
Personally think Porsche has given 997 GT3/RS owners a gift by breaking the direct connection between GT3 street and race cars. My guess, values for the best examples (low mile 3.8 and 4.0 RS) could decline for a period but then hold steady and rise. High probability the 4.0s never drop at all. Even post the 991 GT3 release there are zero 4.0's on Cars.com and Porsche.com sites and only two 3.8 RS's. Will more show up when deliveries start? Sure. But don't expect a market flood and we won't know the final verdict for 10ish years.
Of course all the above gets reset if the Fed takes the punchbowl away.
03-06-2013, 05:33 PM
#38
I wouldn't run out and sell my RS if I loved it. At he end of the 3.8RS run they sat for awhile on showroom floors. So I guess we will see.
03-06-2013, 06:17 PM
#39
CAR magazine is British they tested euro models not US models.
People just over emphasized the "fantasticness" of the 993 in 1998/99 since it was the last air cooled model and conversely treated the 996 as the bastard son.
People just over emphasized the "fantasticness" of the 993 in 1998/99 since it was the last air cooled model and conversely treated the 996 as the bastard son.
03-06-2013, 06:31 PM
#40
Tells you how subjective and individual the term "involving" is.
03-06-2013, 07:43 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
LaFiat !!!
A wannabe GT3 is not interesting at all. Nothing special.
Lots of Scuderia wannabe features in this new VW: getting neutral by pulling both flappy paddles, e-diff, multiple stability control settings, and 100ms gear shifts (not yet the 60ms in my Fiat).
The only awesome feature is the standard VTS (Vehicle Tracking System), so now VW can void your warranty automatically, by using the GPS coordinates of every single racetrack and autoX lot around the World.
In the meantime, GM is preparing a track day event at Sebring to present the C7, and I'm going.
A wannabe GT3 is not interesting at all. Nothing special.
Lots of Scuderia wannabe features in this new VW: getting neutral by pulling both flappy paddles, e-diff, multiple stability control settings, and 100ms gear shifts (not yet the 60ms in my Fiat).
The only awesome feature is the standard VTS (Vehicle Tracking System), so now VW can void your warranty automatically, by using the GPS coordinates of every single racetrack and autoX lot around the World.
In the meantime, GM is preparing a track day event at Sebring to present the C7, and I'm going.
997 break also, just less and cheaper to fix than the rest.
When is the Corvette day? How do I get on the list, I will go also!!
I don't blame you to like racing more than DE or anything else, but my point is that either you don't track your Scuderia, or you most likely cruise around, because they don't last full session at Sebring.
My point is, that even feeling great, you can't track a car that doesn't last. Same as the GTR, fast ... in this case no feel, and not track worthy around here.
Your point was also to say that the Cup steering system is 'similar' than the 991GT3, when they have nothing similar, besides being a steering system.
I'm not the one to say that the car is crappy before I drove it. That's why I ordered one, but does the specs look amazing ??? Hell No !
The stupid flappy pedals suck in my opinion, and that's why this won't be my main track car, don't even know if I'll like it or not, but I see it as a street car more than a track car now.
If It goes thru 3 weekends at Sebring in the summer without flaws, most likely I'll keep it.
Same as the Chevy .... if it survives, It will probably be the car to have for DE guys.
Unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough to Race a Cup. Buying the car and driving is the easiest part.
My point is, that even feeling great, you can't track a car that doesn't last. Same as the GTR, fast ... in this case no feel, and not track worthy around here.
Your point was also to say that the Cup steering system is 'similar' than the 991GT3, when they have nothing similar, besides being a steering system.
I'm not the one to say that the car is crappy before I drove it. That's why I ordered one, but does the specs look amazing ??? Hell No !
The stupid flappy pedals suck in my opinion, and that's why this won't be my main track car, don't even know if I'll like it or not, but I see it as a street car more than a track car now.
If It goes thru 3 weekends at Sebring in the summer without flaws, most likely I'll keep it.
Same as the Chevy .... if it survives, It will probably be the car to have for DE guys.
Unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough to Race a Cup. Buying the car and driving is the easiest part.
+1 We're double testing, instead of both getting one after the other Eddie and I are going to see what dies first; The Corvette that I will buy or Eddie's 991 GT3. We're both reasonably fast, both very gently on equipment and well its Sebring. So it should be a good test..
Sebring is destructive. The super soft sprung Aero Beetles do not survive Sebring either. Lots of blown engines and transmissions on 3.8 aero beetles in the past 2 years with nowhere near my track miles in the fiat, and two 4.0rs with kaboom engines too.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
03-11-2013, 08:37 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Some good clips for those that still think Modern Real Sportcars drive by themselves just because they use proper contemporary technology.
Clearly those Ferrari 458 have autopilot and the 2 driver goons have nothing to with it. Enjoy:
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013...passenger.html
Clearly those Ferrari 458 have autopilot and the 2 driver goons have nothing to with it. Enjoy:
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013...passenger.html
03-11-2013, 09:23 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Some good clips for those that still think Modern Real Sportcars drive by themselves just because they use proper contemporary technology.
Clearly those Ferrari 458 have autopilot and the 2 driver goons have nothing to with it. Enjoy:
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013...passenger.html
Clearly those Ferrari 458 have autopilot and the 2 driver goons have nothing to with it. Enjoy:
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013...passenger.html
Those videos are awesome!!!!!!
Interesting how Alonso shufflesteers & Massa does not
03-11-2013, 09:35 PM
#44
Drifting
If you own a GT3 RS 4.0, mark this day. You just made $50,000 overnight.
The most successful Porsche racing engine, the Mezger flat-6, the last manual transmission GT3, in the last of the Analog Porsches.
VW owns Porsche, the 991 GT3 just gave a nice bump on resale to the 997.2 GT3/RS/4.0.
The most successful Porsche racing engine, the Mezger flat-6, the last manual transmission GT3, in the last of the Analog Porsches.
VW owns Porsche, the 991 GT3 just gave a nice bump on resale to the 997.2 GT3/RS/4.0.
03-11-2013, 09:55 PM
#45
Race Director
I have to shuffle some due to not being able to get my hands past my knees.
