Where's Rad?
03-05-2013, 11:32 PM
#16
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Seriously, My view is that the AWS being there is probably good news, meaning the longer wheelbase and front suspesnsion setup is so aggressive (lots of caster like in a Cup car or any real racecar) that the turning radius would be totally inpractical if it didnt have he AWS system for low speed turns.
On the high speed stuff it probaly avoids the need for insufferable stiff suspesnion bushings.
Its all very clever and good engineering. Again, my only big regret is that hey didnt use a lighter single clutch tranny, just for the benefit of an Auto mode thats smoother.
03-05-2013, 11:32 PM
#17
My point is and was, that no matter how the system works the only real important fact is how it actually drives and lets you the driver interact with the car. The example of the cup car electric rack is to point out that the system had no detriment just formthe act of having an electric component.
Another example: As sophisticated as they are, the Ferrari rear differentials are miles ahead of what Porsche cars use, and despite the high tech, they do allow you to have a more direct connection between throttle pedal and torque tansferred at each rear wheel, which makes it (feel?) more analog and direct. Drive one and try to deny it...
All this rant is like having complained about fuel injection or variable cam timing, because real drivers had to mastered cautious throttle openning to avoid bogging the engine with fuel, or live with only using a narrow band of high revs to get max hp-torque b/c the was no torque due to valve opening being excessive in the mid range
Real drivers, drive, can get the cars to the limit, get decent times, and report back. Others just comment on bench race specs, and buy based on perceived collectors specs of uniqueness, but never get those cars anywhere near to what they can perform.
I have never met a Supercup driver who would say the prior model was better than the new one....
Another example: As sophisticated as they are, the Ferrari rear differentials are miles ahead of what Porsche cars use, and despite the high tech, they do allow you to have a more direct connection between throttle pedal and torque tansferred at each rear wheel, which makes it (feel?) more analog and direct. Drive one and try to deny it...
All this rant is like having complained about fuel injection or variable cam timing, because real drivers had to mastered cautious throttle openning to avoid bogging the engine with fuel, or live with only using a narrow band of high revs to get max hp-torque b/c the was no torque due to valve opening being excessive in the mid range
Real drivers, drive, can get the cars to the limit, get decent times, and report back. Others just comment on bench race specs, and buy based on perceived collectors specs of uniqueness, but never get those cars anywhere near to what they can perform.
I have never met a Supercup driver who would say the prior model was better than the new one....
It does matter how does it work, because the way it works makes it a different system.
Exactly ... Once it becomes closer to a Ferrari, maybe it will act like one, therefore brake.
I drove more than a few of them, and the Scuderia is a fantastic STREET car, but that's all it is.
A lot guys here are not in the search of the ultimate lap, otherwise we wouldn't be driving GT3. Feel has a lot to do with it, while a race car only needs to go fast no matter how it feels, as it's just a tool. For those that pay to drive their own cars and are not pros, a lot of them care about how the car feels...
03-05-2013, 11:34 PM
#18
03-05-2013, 11:36 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Because they dont have to park it! Or do a U turn!! They just it leave it to the team to push the car back into the paddock/ trailer!
Seriously, My view is that the AWS being there is probably good news, meaning the longer wheelbase and front suspesnsion setup is so aggressive (lots of caster like in a Cup car or any real racecar) that the turning radius would be totally inpractical if it didnt have he AWS system for low speed turns.
On the high speed stuff it probaly avoids the need for insufferable stiff suspesnion bushings.
Its all very clever and good engineering. Again, my only big regret is that hey didnt use a lighter single clutch tranny, just for the benefit of an Auto mode thats smoother.
Seriously, My view is that the AWS being there is probably good news, meaning the longer wheelbase and front suspesnsion setup is so aggressive (lots of caster like in a Cup car or any real racecar) that the turning radius would be totally inpractical if it didnt have he AWS system for low speed turns.
On the high speed stuff it probaly avoids the need for insufferable stiff suspesnion bushings.
Its all very clever and good engineering. Again, my only big regret is that hey didnt use a lighter single clutch tranny, just for the benefit of an Auto mode thats smoother.
Got it wrong one more time....
It does matter how does it work, because the way it works makes it a different system.
Exactly ... Once it becomes closer to a Ferrari, maybe it will act like one, therefore brake.
I drove more than a few of them, and the Scuderia is a fantastic STREET car, but that's all it is.
A lot guys here are not in the search of the ultimate lap, otherwise we wouldn't be driving GT3. Feel has a lot to do with it, while a race car only needs to go fast no matter how it feels, as it's just a tool. For those that pay to drive their own cars and are not pros, a lot of them care about how the car feels...
It does matter how does it work, because the way it works makes it a different system.
Exactly ... Once it becomes closer to a Ferrari, maybe it will act like one, therefore brake.
I drove more than a few of them, and the Scuderia is a fantastic STREET car, but that's all it is.
A lot guys here are not in the search of the ultimate lap, otherwise we wouldn't be driving GT3. Feel has a lot to do with it, while a race car only needs to go fast no matter how it feels, as it's just a tool. For those that pay to drive their own cars and are not pros, a lot of them care about how the car feels...
03-05-2013, 11:37 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Got it wrong one more time....
It does matter how does it work, because the way it works makes it a different system.
Exactly ... Once it becomes closer to a Ferrari, maybe it will act like one, therefore brake.
I drove more than a few of them, and the Scuderia is a fantastic STREET car, but that's all it is.
A lot guys here are not in the search of the ultimate lap, otherwise we wouldn't be driving GT3. Feel has a lot to do with it, while a race car only needs to go fast no matter how it feels, as it's just a tool. For those that pay to drive their own cars and are not pros, a lot of them care about how the car feels...
It does matter how does it work, because the way it works makes it a different system.
Exactly ... Once it becomes closer to a Ferrari, maybe it will act like one, therefore brake.
I drove more than a few of them, and the Scuderia is a fantastic STREET car, but that's all it is.
A lot guys here are not in the search of the ultimate lap, otherwise we wouldn't be driving GT3. Feel has a lot to do with it, while a race car only needs to go fast no matter how it feels, as it's just a tool. For those that pay to drive their own cars and are not pros, a lot of them care about how the car feels...
03-05-2013, 11:53 PM
#21
I don't blame you to like racing more than DE or anything else, but my point is that either you don't track your Scuderia, or you most likely cruise around, because they don't last full session at Sebring.
My point is, that even feeling great, you can't track a car that doesn't last. Same as the GTR, fast ... in this case no feel, and not track worthy around here.
Your point was also to say that the Cup steering system is 'similar' than the 991GT3, when they have nothing similar, besides being a steering system.
I'm not the one to say that the car is crappy before I drove it. That's why I ordered one, but does the specs look amazing ??? Hell No !
The stupid flappy pedals suck in my opinion, and that's why this won't be my main track car, don't even know if I'll like it or not, but I see it as a street car more than a track car now.
If It goes thru 3 weekends at Sebring in the summer without flaws, most likely I'll keep it.
Same as the Chevy .... if it survives, It will probably be the car to have for DE guys.
Unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough to Race a Cup. Buying the car and driving is the easiest part.
My point is, that even feeling great, you can't track a car that doesn't last. Same as the GTR, fast ... in this case no feel, and not track worthy around here.
Your point was also to say that the Cup steering system is 'similar' than the 991GT3, when they have nothing similar, besides being a steering system.
I'm not the one to say that the car is crappy before I drove it. That's why I ordered one, but does the specs look amazing ??? Hell No !
The stupid flappy pedals suck in my opinion, and that's why this won't be my main track car, don't even know if I'll like it or not, but I see it as a street car more than a track car now.
If It goes thru 3 weekends at Sebring in the summer without flaws, most likely I'll keep it.
Same as the Chevy .... if it survives, It will probably be the car to have for DE guys.
Unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough to Race a Cup. Buying the car and driving is the easiest part.
03-05-2013, 11:54 PM
#22
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One thread; in one thread alone we needed VR's famous facepalms and he decided to be PC and all polite.
Where the world is going.. Go figure.
: )
Where the world is going.. Go figure.
: )
03-05-2013, 11:58 PM
#23
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03-05-2013, 11:59 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I don't blame you to like racing more than DE or anything else, but my point is that either you don't track your Scuderia, or you most likely cruise around, because they don't last full session at Sebring.
My point is, that even feeling great, you can't track a car that doesn't last. Same as the GTR, fast ... in this case no feel, and not track worthy around here.
Your point was also to say that the Cup steering system is 'similar' than the 991GT3, when they have nothing similar, besides being a steering system.
I'm not the one to say that the car is crappy before I drove it. That's why I ordered one, but does the specs look amazing ??? Hell No !
The stupid flappy pedals suck in my opinion, and that's why this won't be my main track car, don't even know if I'll like it or not, but I see it as a street car more than a track car now.
If It goes thru 3 weekends at Sebring in the summer without flaws, most likely I'll keep it.
Same as the Chevy .... if it survives, It will probably be the car to have for DE guys.
Unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough to Race a Cup. Buying the car and driving is the easiest part.
My point is, that even feeling great, you can't track a car that doesn't last. Same as the GTR, fast ... in this case no feel, and not track worthy around here.
Your point was also to say that the Cup steering system is 'similar' than the 991GT3, when they have nothing similar, besides being a steering system.
I'm not the one to say that the car is crappy before I drove it. That's why I ordered one, but does the specs look amazing ??? Hell No !
The stupid flappy pedals suck in my opinion, and that's why this won't be my main track car, don't even know if I'll like it or not, but I see it as a street car more than a track car now.
If It goes thru 3 weekends at Sebring in the summer without flaws, most likely I'll keep it.
Same as the Chevy .... if it survives, It will probably be the car to have for DE guys.
Unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough to Race a Cup. Buying the car and driving is the easiest part.
I have more track miles on mine than street miles. Rad any opinions?
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...97-gt2-vs.html
03-06-2013, 12:12 AM
#25
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LOL
Much better
( And that's probably how a moderator gets his first infraction for subtle trolling.
Let's hope that Bob's still busy moving threads to the new forum. )
Much better
( And that's probably how a moderator gets his first infraction for subtle trolling.
Let's hope that Bob's still busy moving threads to the new forum.
)
03-06-2013, 12:29 AM
#26
Not sure about what you mean by the Scud not lasting....?
I have more track miles on mine than street miles. Rad any opinions?
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...97-gt2-vs.html
I have more track miles on mine than street miles. Rad any opinions?
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...97-gt2-vs.html
You probably don't drive Sebring much, do you ?
Also probably don't know much about Rad's car...
The day a Fiat does 3 full weekends at Sebring without braking, and driven properly, I'll give a lot more credit to it, in the mean time, they will still be great looking and fun cars to drive on the street.
But this doesn't matter, this thread is about the 991, and not the FIAT...
Back on topic guys
03-06-2013, 01:15 AM
#28
http://www.porsche.com/international...hideintro=true
However, I heard a rumor that Porsche convinced DofD to loan them an Air Force drone to overfly Florida racetracks on certain dates to try detecting early CL failures & the like!
http://www.petersen.org/about-us/new...ut-at-petersen
I was in the area but it conflicted with the annual Porsche LA Lit & Memorabilia Meet I was attending!
Saludos,
Eduardo
03-06-2013, 01:48 AM
#29
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Sebring is destructive. The super soft sprung Aero Beetles do not survive Sebring either. Lots of blown engines and transmissions on 3.8 aero beetles in the past 2 years with nowhere near my track miles in the fiat, and two 4.0rs with kaboom engines too.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
Fiat has broken just twice on its f1 transmission components, the newer dct in the 458 is longer lasting but it lost its soul, i would rather fix the f1 system every 3 years, than live with the soul-less tranny in the 458, new r8, and the 991 aero beetle.
Only weak part in fiat is lack of brake cooling, easy fix.
I do a lot of drag racing, autocross, these two activities eat axles, drivetrain mounts, suspension bushings, and kill transmissions, clutches, diff, yet the Fiat still is on the original clutch, tranny, diff and engine.
Aero Beetles break much more with my use, i had two of them and they broke too often. The 997.2 is the less reliable of all.
Fortunately, the 991 aero beetle wannabe will be a much more reliable car, faster too, good looking, and given the base price, it is the best equipped Carrera S wide body.
$131k is a bargain.
03-06-2013, 06:51 AM
#30
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I don't see anything here. I mean, not lasting.... brake, tow out of the track, don't make it home.
You probably don't drive Sebring much, do you ?
Also probably don't know much about Rad's car...
The day a Fiat does 3 full weekends at Sebring without braking, and driven properly, I'll give a lot more credit to it, in the mean time, they will still be great looking and fun cars to drive on the street.
But this doesn't matter, this thread is about the 991, and not the FIAT...
Back on topic guys
You probably don't drive Sebring much, do you ?
Also probably don't know much about Rad's car...
The day a Fiat does 3 full weekends at Sebring without braking, and driven properly, I'll give a lot more credit to it, in the mean time, they will still be great looking and fun cars to drive on the street.
But this doesn't matter, this thread is about the 991, and not the FIAT...
Back on topic guys
