Who is getting one.? First official poll - Page 5 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

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991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R
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View Poll Results: Who is getting a 991 GT3?
I have a 996 GT3 and will buy one because my car is old and rattles.
0.51%
I have a 997 GT3 and will get one because it will be faster and I want to win my local DE race
3.59%
I have a 4.0. Leave me alone!
4.10%
I never had a GT3 but will order one now because it's the first one that I can actually drive ..
2.05%
I won't be getting one, will wait for the 991 RS
21.54%
I will buy one because this is a helluva car.
24.62%
I won't buy one. I like everything but the PDK
11.79%
I won't get one. I loathe its gismos and I dunno if I can't turn them OFF
9.23%
What GT3? This is a just a Carrera on steroids.
10.77%
I will wait to see if these CLs fly and what's the maintenance schedule before ordering
9.74%
open to suggestions
7.18%
A GT3 without bucket seats? No thanks, I'll buy a Vette.
2.05%
I guess I'll take one for the team this time..
0
0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

Who is getting one.? First official poll

 
Old 03-09-2013, 08:42 PM
  #61  
fbirch
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Originally Posted by Carrera GT View Post
In other words, we’ll sit on the sideline and watch as a large sample group of early adopters buys the damn car, drives it till the wheels fall off, then we'll know it's a real GT3.
Pardon my editing, but I suspect many GT3 fans will be watching to see how these cars hold up in the hands of owners who track them frequently, vigorously, for 2-3 years.

Based on specs alone, the car will be an exceptional performer. “Feel” can’t be judged based on specs, but it’s hard to imagine anything spinning at 9000 RPM’s, putting out nearly 500 HP, stiffly sprung, and turning sub – 7:30 laps on the Ring feeling anything other than sensational. The motoring press will get their hands on the car soon enough, so there will be lots of firsthand feedback on feel pretty soon.

The big question mark for me is longevity of all the new content in “heavy use” track environments. Just for starters, this car has a totally new engine, based on a 9A1 case. The 9A1 itself seems to be a pretty good motor, but looking at internal photos of 9A1’s that have been tracked hard, it’s not as robust as the Mezger. Will this new motor with its revised internals be a robust track tool? Only time will tell. I admire those of you with deep enough pockets and enough sense of adventure to answer that question for the rest of us.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:56 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by fbirch View Post
Pardon my editing, but I suspect many GT3 fans will be watching to see how these cars hold up in the hands of owners who track them frequently, vigorously, for 2-3 years.

Based on specs alone, the car will be an exceptional performer. “Feel” can’t be judged based on specs, but it’s hard to imagine anything spinning at 9000 RPM’s, putting out nearly 500 HP, stiffly sprung, and turning sub – 7:30 laps on the Ring feeling anything other than sensational. The motoring press will get their hands on the car soon enough, so there will be lots of firsthand feedback on feel pretty soon.

The big question mark for me is longevity of all the new content in “heavy use” track environments. Just for starters, this car has a totally new engine, based on a 9A1 case. The 9A1 itself seems to be a pretty good motor, but looking at internal photos of 9A1’s that have been tracked hard, it’s not as robust as the Mezger. Will this new motor with its revised internals be a robust track tool? Only time will tell. I admire those of you with deep enough pockets and enough sense of adventure to answer that question for the rest of us.
My sentiments exactly...
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:20 PM
  #63  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by fbirch View Post
Will this new motor with its revised internals be a robust track tool? Only time will tell. I admire those of you with deep enough pockets and enough sense of adventure to answer that question for the rest of us.
Over on the "GT3 good news" thread it was just posted that Porsche has announced improvements to the new CL's. It was suggested that the 997.2 guys had taken one for the team so that 991 GT3 buyers wouldn't have to. Guess it's time to return the favor!
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:57 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by fbirch View Post
Pardon my editing, but I suspect many GT3 fans will be watching to see how these cars hold up in the hands of owners who track them frequently, vigorously, for 2-3 years.

Based on specs alone, the car will be an exceptional performer. “Feel” can’t be judged based on specs, but it’s hard to imagine anything spinning at 9000 RPM’s, putting out nearly 500 HP, stiffly sprung, and turning sub – 7:30 laps on the Ring feeling anything other than sensational. The motoring press will get their hands on the car soon enough, so there will be lots of firsthand feedback on feel pretty soon.

The big question mark for me is longevity of all the new content in “heavy use” track environments. Just for starters, this car has a totally new engine, based on a 9A1 case. The 9A1 itself seems to be a pretty good motor, but looking at internal photos of 9A1’s that have been tracked hard, it’s not as robust as the Mezger. Will this new motor with its revised internals be a robust track tool? Only time will tell. I admire those of you with deep enough pockets and enough sense of adventure to answer that question for the rest of us.
I simply meant to make the wise crack that GT3 centerlock wheels fall off.

As for early adopters, that's what they are: the suckers who go first and have the greatest reward or the worst failure. I think that's it in a nutshell: "feel can't be judged from specs." The early adopter will either rejoice in leaping off the cliff and landing on the other side of the chasm or fall to the canyon floor holding an umbrella and the sign "Not again ..." wearing a Wile E Coyote cosplay outfit, only to rise from the dust cloud to do it all over again when the RS comes along. I was one of the suckers who did exactly the same thing when the 997.1 came along and I loved the look of the thing, but couldn't quite let go of the 996 without being damn sure. The same thing when the 996 came along, only I ended up keeping the 993 Turbo when the "wet one" was clearly more fun on track, but never came close to the experience of the 993. I had the same thing one more time prior (!) when moving on from the 964 RS America. I wish I had the dollars and garage space to have kept that 964. I rue the day I let that one go. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Now, I have the RS 3.8. It was clearly the better proposition for me than the RS 4.0, and I've never regretted giving up the RS 4.0 (other than the prospect of perhaps tinkering with it, then selling it now for a higher price than the MSRP I would have paid.) But I know I'll be kicking myself to the grave if I sell the RS and the 991 ends up being ho hum. I just don't see how the 991 can possibly replace the RS. Anything's possible. A day at the track will shed light. The 991 GT3 is a helluva surprise to me. The 991 RS could be truly spectacular. Both of them could turn out to be the nails in the rich man's coffin on the camel's back.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:52 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by mike2727 View Post
Can you add, "Will not buy if Bucket seats are not a factory option"

Thanks
Mike
Originally Posted by Carrera GT View Post
.. I conclude this poll should include two additional votes:

* I'll buy it, but I'm not convinced I'll keep it.

* The C7 Vette is preferable. .. "
Done. I hope you don't mind me mixing the new options a bit.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:27 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by fbirch View Post
Pardon my editing, but I suspect many GT3 fans will be watching to see how these cars hold up in the hands of owners who track them frequently, vigorously, for 2-3 years.

Based on specs alone, the car will be an exceptional performer. “Feel” can’t be judged based on specs, but it’s hard to imagine anything spinning at 9000 RPM’s, putting out nearly 500 HP, stiffly sprung, and turning sub – 7:30 laps on the Ring feeling anything other than sensational. The motoring press will get their hands on the car soon enough, so there will be lots of firsthand feedback on feel pretty soon.

The big question mark for me is longevity of all the new content in “heavy use” track environments. Just for starters, this car has a totally new engine, based on a 9A1 case. The 9A1 itself seems to be a pretty good motor, but looking at internal photos of 9A1’s that have been tracked hard, it’s not as robust as the Mezger. Will this new motor with its revised internals be a robust track tool? Only time will tell. I admire those of you with deep enough pockets and enough sense of adventure to answer that question for the rest of us.
I suspect that Porsche has hit a home run with the engine and even the transmission

I suspect they've left a lot on the table with suspension, weight, and tire. I say this because by going to 20's that obsoleted all MPSC, Trofeo, Kumho, RE etc users. Only Dunlop. So the car chassis/suspension is probably nowhere near its potential. Plus all the weight. Ugh.

All of the above is just IMO of course.... and based on almost nothing.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:35 AM
  #67  
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Actually just got off the phone with Pirelli GM here in the UAE. Trofeo R's are going in production in June delivery starting in July. so by the time most of us start getting our cars we should have the option of switching once the factory Dunlops are shredded
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
Over on the "GT3 good news" thread it was just posted that Porsche has announced improvements to the new CL's. It was suggested that the 997.2 guys had taken one for the team so that 991 GT3 buyers wouldn't have to. Guess it's time to return the favor!
The "take one for the team" beta testing of the CL's....sounds like such a repetition of the first (and maybe second gen) PCCB's.....

Both were (are?) answers in search of a problem....
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by 911SLOW View Post
Done. I hope you don't mind me mixing the new options a bit.
Thanks, no go ahead mix them up

Only problem I have I voted already on the CL's, but would like to vote now on the buckets/Vette LOL

Mike
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:43 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by mdrums View Post
I'm stuck in my GTS for awhile and the economy isn't helping matters. Sales for me are rather dull right now.
Sales of what?
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:50 PM
  #71  
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Please add another option for multiples issues with the new car:

1. No Metzger engine
2. 9A1 engine. If Porsche won't race it, is it really the right engine for a GT3 (Porsche is still using the Metger in the race cars)?
3. Street PDK. If Porsche won't race it, is it really the right transmission for a GT3 (Porsche is still using the Getrag 6-sp and sequential manuals in the race cars)?
4. A transmission with an auto driving mode in a GT3, WTF? Why not the sequential manual from the race cars instead?
5. No feel power steering in a car that's supposed to be all about the driving experience
6. A parking brake with a mind of its own
7. CLs still here after 2 recalls and the GT3 community not really wanting them
8. No decent seats
9. No confidence in the new rear steering. It has failed in every system in the past (Honda, Mazda and Nissan used it and abandoned it), so why should we think Porsche got it right?

I doubt most like me who would be the potential buyers for the new version are skipping it for just one reason. If Porsche becomes confident enough in the 9A1 engine and street PDK that they would put confidence in it, but until then this is the deal breaker for me.

One other thing to think about is economics. Not the economics of buying the car, rather the economics of building it. Does the new 9A1 GT3 engine cost less or more than the Metzer engine it replaces? Does the PDK cost less or more than the Getrag transmission it replaces? When you know the truth to these questions, you will know who is making the decisions for Porsche.

BTW, if all you want to do is get fast track times without any driver's skill, why are we talking about GT3s at all? That is the entire reason why the Nissan GTR exists...and its less than a GT3. I got a good laugh from the 'winning your DE' in the poll.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:42 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by 10 GT3 View Post
Please add another option for multiples issues with the new car:

1. No Metzger engine
2. 9A1 engine. If Porsche won't race it, is it really the right engine for a GT3 (Porsche is still using the Metger in the race cars)?
3. Street PDK. If Porsche won't race it, is it really the right transmission for a GT3 (Porsche is still using the Getrag 6-sp and sequential manuals in the race cars)?
4. A transmission with an auto driving mode in a GT3, WTF? Why not the sequential manual from the race cars instead?
5. No feel power steering in a car that's supposed to be all about the driving experience
6. A parking brake with a mind of its own
7. CLs still here after 2 recalls and the GT3 community not really wanting them
8. No decent seats
9. No confidence in the new rear steering. It has failed in every system in the past (Honda, Mazda and Nissan used it and abandoned it), so why should we think Porsche got it right?

I doubt most like me who would be the potential buyers for the new version are skipping it for just one reason. If Porsche becomes confident enough in the 9A1 engine and street PDK that they would put confidence in it, but until then this is the deal breaker for me.

One other thing to think about is economics. Not the economics of buying the car, rather the economics of building it. Does the new 9A1 GT3 engine cost less or more than the Metzer engine it replaces? Does the PDK cost less or more than the Getrag transmission it replaces? When you know the truth to these questions, you will know who is making the decisions for Porsche.

BTW, if all you want to do is get fast track times without any driver's skill, why are we talking about GT3s at all? That is the entire reason why the Nissan GTR exists...and its less than a GT3. I got a good laugh from the 'winning your DE' in the poll.
Hi 10GT3,

Perfect post...point 9 is one of my main concerns with the 991 GT3:
a) it it has nothing to do there...not in a sportscar. 458, MP4-12, aventador, P1, etc - all dont have it. and
b) To make things even funnier...in racing its forbidden and thus the 991 CUP doesnt have it either..

Last edited by P_collector; 03-10-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:31 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by 96redLT4 View Post
Sales of what?
chicken drumsticks
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:52 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by 10 GT3 View Post
9. No confidence in the new rear steering. It has failed in every system in the past (Honda, Mazda and Nissan used it and abandoned it), so why should we think Porsche got it right?
Originally Posted by Porsche.collector View Post
Hi 10GT3,

Perfect post...point 9 is one of my main concerns with the 991 GT3:
a) it it has nothing to do there...not in a sportscar. 458, MP4-12, aventador, P1, etc - all dont have it. and
b) To make things even funnier...in racing its forbidden and thus the 991 CUP doesnt have it either..
It's not worth taking issue with all of this stuff, again. But before passing judgement on RWS you should read this excellent post on the RWS concept. Good analysis and specific data, as opposed to generic speculation....

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/....#post10283833

BTW, andreas, ABS and adaptable suspensions like PASM aren't allowed in racing nor are they they on the 991 Cup. Should those be eliminated from the GT3 as well?

Best,
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:45 AM
  #75  
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If my stocks keep going sky-high like they have been... I might buy a GT3 as a DD. More likely to be a Boxster or a Cayman though.
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