itrsteve

Lol. Exactly.

I was waiting for something funnier than “what’s the best rollbar for a 991.2?”, now I’ve found it.

docjohnM

noted some intake drone in the touring, so moved my order to winged. Otherwise, they seemed identical. The touring tests slower, but both felt the same to me.

welikethetrack

I am surprised no one mentioned the ram air the wing has, Andreas Preuninger mentioned it at one of the events you can watch online and if I remember correctly said it makes up to +20hp at speed....So on the highway it probably feels like its got a little more juice with the winged version.

Someone probably recalls the exact video....

welikethetrack

4:30-5:30 he talks about it. "at least additional 20hp at top speed"

I mean the details on these cars are so crazy, great video.

ThEnder

My understanding is that the scoops on the winged car are necessary because the wing creates turbulence that prevents enough air from entering the engine at speed. I believe the touring is able to achieve the same effect without the scoops because the air flows smoothly over the deck lid.

Agent_Orange

Yes, winged cars need a row of vortex generators riveted on the roof like a Subaru WRX for better intake flow - hehehe
</ducking>

GrantG

Do you have any evidence of that? I'd be curious to see it. Everything that I have seen indicated positive intake pressure created by the scoops that cannot be generated by the Touring.

ThEnder

I'd read it in one of the articles on the touring, trying to find it again. Peak power can't be that far off between the two versions - their top speed is only ~2mph apart.

GrantG

It takes a fair amount of additional power to go slightly faster at those speeds (and drag has a big effect, if there is a difference).

One of the videos explains the sound difference of the two cars by mentioning the venturi effect of the wing, but no mention of diminishing intake efficiency.

Do you not believe AP in the video posted above? Don't know why an article would be more accurate (though it's possible)...

ThEnder

Not a question of believing AP or not. He didn't mention the touring variant in the video at all, nor does the possible necessity of the scoops negate their benefit at speed. I could very well be wrong, just reporting what I read.

According to Car and Driver the touring version actually creates more drag at speed than the standard car with the wing, which would account for the difference in top speed if power is similar.

Holdens

WHAT?

How is that possible? The wing is the only difference on the exterior. How can there be less drag when you have a wing - whose entire function is to create downward pressure (by using drag/airflow)...

GrantG

I've heard that too, since the Touring has a smaller wing that extends at an acute angle (so it has both less downforce and more drag). I'm not sure what the actual drag & downforce figures are, nor am I certain that the published top speeds are perfectly accurate.

Some info here:

Downforce at top speed: GT3 Touring: 110 pounds; GT3 Winged: 342 pounds.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

ThEnder

There's a pretty big difference between slow speed and top speed. Don't forget that the touring has a retractable spoiler that raises above 75 mph, it's entirely possible that the design of that spoiler and the gurney flap create a higher drag coefficient than the wing on the standard car. Here's the article, unfortunately they don't provide the drag coefficients for each version so there's no hard proof. It's certainly possible to increase downforce without increasing the drag coefficient, AP even said so in the video above.

GrantG

Here's a question for you: Why does the 911R have a published top speed of 199 mph when the GT3 Touring's is 196mph when they have the same power and aero (although in practice the Touring should have more power, based on dyno's of the .2 4.0L motor). I'm thinking that the published Vmax is just an estimate and not necessarily the result of a road test.

ThEnder

Not positive it's the only reason, but the 911R weighs less thanks to carbon fiber hood, wheel arches, and magnesium roof that neither GT3 version get.

I have no idea how they determined top speed, and frankly, the entire power vs. aero discussion is pretty academic since it only applies to top speed conditions anyway.