Advice needed: I’m on the fence on trading my 997.2 Turbo S for a 991.1 GT3
07-12-2019, 12:44 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
By way of your ID "Red9114Me", I believe you know what you really desire. I would privately sell the turbo S and search for the perfect red GT car the meets all your wants and needs. Having owned a 997 turbo, which I cherished, I knew its limitations. A complete rocket ship in a straight line via the boost and torque. Completely capable for what it is and very understated compared to the cars it competes against. I take it from this post, you're ready to try something different. The 991.1 is an excellent car and you may numb yourself reading through the myriad of issues posted. Naturally, the 991.2 evolved, as does every Porsche model that follows, but it doesn't mean the 991.1 isn't a great car. Spend some time talking to the folks who work on these. Go to dealers and speak with their head mechanic. I was enlightened when I did my research. I never came across one mechanic who didn't rave about the car. Rather, they would say... here is one with 15k, there is one with 20k and another with 30k. There is a dedicated track car and one that is not. Again, never did I meet anyone certified to work on these who mentioned it was a bad car and this includes one of the most reputable aftermarket providers that is 5 minutes from me.
It ultimately boils down to what you want out of your 911 and the driving experience you desire. Porsche has mastered this with all the variants they offer. IMHO, what you sacrifice in speed is returned in double from the sound and handling. And of course, it looks the part too!
Have fun searching, you won't regret buying a GT3. Instead of freeway pulls you'll be seeking the twisties to harness some of its potential.
It ultimately boils down to what you want out of your 911 and the driving experience you desire. Porsche has mastered this with all the variants they offer. IMHO, what you sacrifice in speed is returned in double from the sound and handling. And of course, it looks the part too!
Have fun searching, you won't regret buying a GT3. Instead of freeway pulls you'll be seeking the twisties to harness some of its potential.
07-12-2019, 12:57 AM
#32
Been there, I made the switch in Oct 2017 from a 997.2 turbo S (rare aerokit edition coupe) to my current 991.1 GT3. Here are my thoughts on switching;
PROS:
- Steering - Sharper & more precise in the GT3. The drive-by-wire electric steering is very well calibrated although a bit numb. Also RWD in the GT3 means that the front wheel are unencumbered by drivetrains and are solely focused on steering
- RWS - makes cornering incredibly quick in the 991 GT3 (rotation in slow corners is marvelous, less understeer feel)
- Stability - longer wheelbase and wider track makes the GT3 feel much more comfortable than I expected around town and really potent on the track.
- Weight - the GT3 feels so much lighter than the turbo S (best felt on the track, especially in braking where I brake so much later in the GT3). The brakes and tires don't get as hot on track as the turbo S
- Suspension: significantly less body roll in the GT3 likely due to the much better GT3 suspension. The stock turbo S suspension is WAY TOO soft, even in Sport mode (had to get a DSC module)
- Character: this is highly subjective but to me, the GT3 feels much more how I expected a Porsche 911 to be. Raspy engine, precise steering, throatier exhaust (center muffler is a must regardless) and most importantly requiring you to pay attention to it while driving. The turbo S could feel a bit numb (point & shoot/blast). A Europipe exhaust woke things up a bit but I felt a little detached from the turbo S at times on the road.
CONS:
- miss the hydraulic steering feel of the 997 platform (it's in the feedback it communicates)
- miss the low-end torque (and still do). Once you experience 516 Lb-ft at 1,750 rpm going to 324 lb-ft at 5,000rpm feels incredibly SLOOOOOW. You've got to get above 5,000 rpm to relish the GT3
- Miss the rear seats. I actually had my youngest in the rear seat of the turbo S (7yrs old at the time) with my oldest (10 yrs) in the front seat a few times for quick pick-ups and trips to the store etc. Can't do that in the GT3
- miss the instant acceleration and pull of the turbo S (mine was COBB tuned) and the GT3 doesn't come close to stuffing me in the seat and top end pull
- miss the better rear visibility of the turbo S. although I had the aerokit rear decklid, I still had 100% rear visibility. The GT3 wing blocks out half of the rear window
- miss the better road manners in the turbo S (it was a much better cruiser)
Conclusion: Both were PDK so no real edge (the GT3 PDK feels snappier and quicker but its really a wash on the street). The turbo S was way more "mod friendly" if you're into that. On the engines, the 9A1 in the turbo S was supple and fantastic. Never gave me any issues. The GT3 3.8 DFI has its documented issues but I looked for & bought a 2016 MY which should be fine (either way I have the 10 yr engine warranty so beyond any inconvenience for possible downtime during engine replacement, its a non-issue as Porsche has stood behind every engine replacement claim to-date.
They are two very different cars and the primary purpose/intent of ownership should be deciding factor in your decision. If primarily street, I would keep the turbo S. If moderate track with some street use then the 991.1 GT3 fits the bill perfectly. Both are great cars and I can see myself in a 997.2 turbo S again. You shouldn't get hung up on the 918 edition thing, it's really only a few neon-lime green colored accents and nothing more. If your issue is residual value, then the GT3 should hold its value better than the turbo S anyway, with similar miles driven. Good luck.
PROS:
- Steering - Sharper & more precise in the GT3. The drive-by-wire electric steering is very well calibrated although a bit numb. Also RWD in the GT3 means that the front wheel are unencumbered by drivetrains and are solely focused on steering
- RWS - makes cornering incredibly quick in the 991 GT3 (rotation in slow corners is marvelous, less understeer feel)
- Stability - longer wheelbase and wider track makes the GT3 feel much more comfortable than I expected around town and really potent on the track.
- Weight - the GT3 feels so much lighter than the turbo S (best felt on the track, especially in braking where I brake so much later in the GT3). The brakes and tires don't get as hot on track as the turbo S
- Suspension: significantly less body roll in the GT3 likely due to the much better GT3 suspension. The stock turbo S suspension is WAY TOO soft, even in Sport mode (had to get a DSC module)
- Character: this is highly subjective but to me, the GT3 feels much more how I expected a Porsche 911 to be. Raspy engine, precise steering, throatier exhaust (center muffler is a must regardless) and most importantly requiring you to pay attention to it while driving. The turbo S could feel a bit numb (point & shoot/blast). A Europipe exhaust woke things up a bit but I felt a little detached from the turbo S at times on the road.
CONS:
- miss the hydraulic steering feel of the 997 platform (it's in the feedback it communicates)
- miss the low-end torque (and still do). Once you experience 516 Lb-ft at 1,750 rpm going to 324 lb-ft at 5,000rpm feels incredibly SLOOOOOW. You've got to get above 5,000 rpm to relish the GT3
- Miss the rear seats. I actually had my youngest in the rear seat of the turbo S (7yrs old at the time) with my oldest (10 yrs) in the front seat a few times for quick pick-ups and trips to the store etc. Can't do that in the GT3
- miss the instant acceleration and pull of the turbo S (mine was COBB tuned) and the GT3 doesn't come close to stuffing me in the seat and top end pull
- miss the better rear visibility of the turbo S. although I had the aerokit rear decklid, I still had 100% rear visibility. The GT3 wing blocks out half of the rear window
- miss the better road manners in the turbo S (it was a much better cruiser)
Conclusion: Both were PDK so no real edge (the GT3 PDK feels snappier and quicker but its really a wash on the street). The turbo S was way more "mod friendly" if you're into that. On the engines, the 9A1 in the turbo S was supple and fantastic. Never gave me any issues. The GT3 3.8 DFI has its documented issues but I looked for & bought a 2016 MY which should be fine (either way I have the 10 yr engine warranty so beyond any inconvenience for possible downtime during engine replacement, its a non-issue as Porsche has stood behind every engine replacement claim to-date.
They are two very different cars and the primary purpose/intent of ownership should be deciding factor in your decision. If primarily street, I would keep the turbo S. If moderate track with some street use then the 991.1 GT3 fits the bill perfectly. Both are great cars and I can see myself in a 997.2 turbo S again. You shouldn't get hung up on the 918 edition thing, it's really only a few neon-lime green colored accents and nothing more. If your issue is residual value, then the GT3 should hold its value better than the turbo S anyway, with similar miles driven. Good luck.
If one had chosen CXX for the welted seats, carbon fiber everywhere and yes, neon green accents on calipers, decals and stiching, you’d be looking at $35k plus. Porsche threw it in with no upcharge to the 918 buyers. Plus the fact it is a badged car and one of the most limited series Porsche has produced. Over time, the 997 series will hold up very well, with certain models doing better, such as the Edition Spyder. I’m not a flipper, so I just drive it fast.
07-12-2019, 06:49 AM
#33
Get a 991.2 GT3/RS or 997.2 GT3/RS - those are the keepers.
07-12-2019, 11:54 AM
#34
If one had chosen CXX for the welted seats, carbon fiber everywhere and yes, neon green accents on calipers, decals and stiching, you’d be looking at $35k plus. Porsche threw it in with no upcharge to the 918 buyers. Plus the fact it is a badged car and one of the most limited series Porsche has produced. Over time, the 997 series will hold up very well, with certain models doing better, such as the Edition Spyder. I’m not a flipper, so I just drive it fast.
07-12-2019, 12:30 PM
#35
From your sig and comment, it appears you own one. Not trying to start anything but there is nothing ‘special’ about the 918 edition turbo S. We all understood at the time that it was merely a marketing gimmick by Porsche, hence the ‘numbered’ car, and neon green bits. It’s value arc is no different than any highly optioned 997.2 turbo S. Sellers may try to convince people that it’s a special ‘numbered’ car but savvy Porsche buyers know better. That said, the 997.2 turbo S is a phenomenal car, best all around understated supercar IMHO, but like I said don’t get caught up in the 918 spyder edition thing...enjoy the car for what it is.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0817-30...pyder-edition/
Sold for $180k. We'll never know if it would have brought a higher # had Mecum known its limited production run. That said, I'm not selling mine so I'm not trying to pimp it's value here.
You're blowing a sad trombone to all those claiming "special" for optioning PTS in GT cars...lol
07-12-2019, 12:33 PM
#36
From your sig and comment, it appears you own one. Not trying to start anything but there is nothing ‘special’ about the 918 edition turbo S. We all understood at the time that it was merely a marketing gimmick by Porsche, hence the ‘numbered’ car, and neon green bits. It’s value arc is no different than any highly optioned 997.2 turbo S. Sellers may try to convince people that it’s a special ‘numbered’ car but savvy Porsche buyers know better. That said, the 997.2 turbo S is a phenomenal car, best all around understated supercar IMHO, but like I said don’t get caught up in the 918 spyder edition thing...enjoy the car for what it is.
Don't know or care as it relates to it's current or future value, but I find these very cool bits (that would have needed to be CXX like houndstooth, green dials, fuch wheels, special paint etc etc) bring some sort intangible charm to the car and again I find it quite special!
YMMV of course, just my opinion
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WernerE (07-12-2019)
07-12-2019, 12:44 PM
#37
I can only speak to my own experience and no one else's, but the little limited edition bits in my 991.1 50th truly make the car a very special one in my eyes and that's compared to my "standard" 991.2 C4 and 991.2 GT3 that I had
Don't know or care as it relates to it's current or future value, but I find these very cool bits (that would have needed to be CXX like houndstooth, green dials, fuch wheels, special paint etc etc) bring some sort intangible charm to the car and again I find it quite special!
YMMV of course, just my opinion
Don't know or care as it relates to it's current or future value, but I find these very cool bits (that would have needed to be CXX like houndstooth, green dials, fuch wheels, special paint etc etc) bring some sort intangible charm to the car and again I find it quite special!
YMMV of course, just my opinion
Here's mine:
07-12-2019, 01:00 PM
#38
07-12-2019, 01:01 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Go drive that Red car.
Then decide.
That 997 Turbo is almost apartment building money in some towns. That'll make you money.
What's special is putting a smile on your face every time you walk out to your GT3.
Blah blah how much warranty is left... doesn't matter.
Drive it and if you like it, buy it. Trust me you will.
Just remember, that Turbo is made to cruise the autobahn for 150 mph at an hour at a time in comfort.
That GT3 was made to wring it's neck at 8-9k rpm for hour, after hour, after hour on a track. A slightly different experience if you ask me and that's what you need to ask yourself.
Good luck amigo!
Then decide.
That 997 Turbo is almost apartment building money in some towns. That'll make you money.
What's special is putting a smile on your face every time you walk out to your GT3.
Blah blah how much warranty is left... doesn't matter.
Drive it and if you like it, buy it. Trust me you will.
Just remember, that Turbo is made to cruise the autobahn for 150 mph at an hour at a time in comfort.
That GT3 was made to wring it's neck at 8-9k rpm for hour, after hour, after hour on a track. A slightly different experience if you ask me and that's what you need to ask yourself.
Good luck amigo!
07-12-2019, 02:08 PM
#40
I agree , let’s not derail the OPs thread. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...after all the value in anything is in what the buyer is willing to pay for it. Enjoy!
07-12-2019, 02:26 PM
#41
Instructor
I had a 15 turbo that I modified to over 650 wheel hp. I traded it in for a GT3 and then an RS. The GT3 and RS are similar in overall experience and I dont know if I would go back to a turbo but I OFTEN miss my turbo. There is nothing that will give you the light to light experience. GT3/RS is like nothing else between 7-9k. If you are a canyon driver or track nothing will replace a GT3/RS but If you are a cars and coffee or around the town keep the Turbo.
07-12-2019, 03:32 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
The 918 edition is cool and I'm totally not a turbo guy. It's in between a crazy collector car as one person commented and complete gimmick as another did, it will always hold a healthy but not crazy premium over another turbo S.
That being said, I would only replace it with another "special" Porsche. If you are all about the 997 and don't need something "newer", get a 997.2 gt3rs no doubt. If you need a 991 as it is much newer and has some good amenities, I wouldn't worry about warranty much. Once the car is out of 10 years, I am sure whatever engine it is on is probably good to go for years to come.
and THAT being said, I would say if your going to go 991 and spend 125k on a 991.1 gt3, just go find a a 991.1 gt3rs for 160k. For 35k you get an engine thats not going to break, a car that is a year newer, and a more special drive and special car for something that will always be worth around 35k more than the slightly lemony (still awesome!) 911.1 gt3 So if ur budget is indeed locked at 125k, that red one is VERY cool! I just think ur getting more value with the 16rs and replacing special with special
Thats my 2 cents
(p.s. I have a 19 gt3rs I daily in LA, u can easily daily the 16 gt3rs as I hear that suspension is much more forgiving and I don't have a problem with mine)
That being said, I would only replace it with another "special" Porsche. If you are all about the 997 and don't need something "newer", get a 997.2 gt3rs no doubt. If you need a 991 as it is much newer and has some good amenities, I wouldn't worry about warranty much. Once the car is out of 10 years, I am sure whatever engine it is on is probably good to go for years to come.
and THAT being said, I would say if your going to go 991 and spend 125k on a 991.1 gt3, just go find a a 991.1 gt3rs for 160k. For 35k you get an engine thats not going to break, a car that is a year newer, and a more special drive and special car for something that will always be worth around 35k more than the slightly lemony (still awesome!) 911.1 gt3 So if ur budget is indeed locked at 125k, that red one is VERY cool! I just think ur getting more value with the 16rs and replacing special with special
Thats my 2 cents
(p.s. I have a 19 gt3rs I daily in LA, u can easily daily the 16 gt3rs as I hear that suspension is much more forgiving and I don't have a problem with mine)
07-12-2019, 06:52 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the comments. I’ve decided to sell my 918 edition outright.
ps. There are 110 gt3 rs 991.1 on mkt. I feel they will lose too much value to go that route.
i feel the same way about 991.1 gt3
ps. There are 110 gt3 rs 991.1 on mkt. I feel they will lose too much value to go that route.
i feel the same way about 991.1 gt3