4.2 liter for new GT3RS?
#61
Rennlist Member
Nothing to do with exhaust sound. You're making a false equivalency. BTW, the new RSR is mid-engine...
My point is that the sound of the car is purely a result of function. They don't care about wasting time/energy/money to force the car to sound a certain way. They build the car to perform and how it sounds is just how it sounds.
My point is that the sound of the car is purely a result of function. They don't care about wasting time/energy/money to force the car to sound a certain way. They build the car to perform and how it sounds is just how it sounds.
#62
Racer
Not faulting Porsche. They are doing what they need to do for shareholders, that's their job. But, I expect cars to become less driver focused and more influencer focused over time so long as they make more profit.
So even more reason to get out and drive, track, autox our amazing cars that we have today.
#63
I donno...they didn't want to go back to MT but did so due to pressure from the real drivers vs the "influencers". Certainly going MT is no longer a mass market, profit-driven option, but really just someting for a relative few.
#64
Racer
Sure they listen to their customers but if that can't be turned into profit it will go nowhere.
#65
I believe Porsche’s marching orders are simple: if it doesn’t pay for itself don’t offer it. We haven’t seen sales figures but between 911Rs, 991.2 manuals and GT4s they’re likely around a billion dollars worth of sales on the latest manual GT cars? If that’s a niche it’s one most manufactures would kill for. So I agree it’s no longer mass market, but I strongly disagree that it’s not profit driven.
#66
Drifting
GT3
Carrera T
Cayman
GT4
718 and all sub models
Boxster and sub models
718 GTS and sub models
A bunch of 911 models
Dude... there's like 20 cars they make that come with a MT.
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JMartinni (07-10-2019)
#67
Rennlist Member
I dunno. They have a LOT of cars with manual transmissions considering it's just for the "relative few" and not for the mass market. The GT3 isn't the only MT car they have...
GT3
Carrera T
Cayman
GT4
718 and all sub models
Boxster and sub models
718 GTS and sub models
A bunch of 911 models
Dude... there's like 20 cars they make that come with a MT.
GT3
Carrera T
Cayman
GT4
718 and all sub models
Boxster and sub models
718 GTS and sub models
A bunch of 911 models
Dude... there's like 20 cars they make that come with a MT.
That eliminates almost all 911 and cayman/Boxster models, leaving only the GT3, GT4, and the Spyder (which is now basically a convertible GT4)
So with that criteria (excluding crazy rare numbered cars), the only true drivers cars that Porsche still makes are GT3/GT3T and the GT4/Spyder.
#68
Drifting
No because a real drivers/enthusiasts car is 4 things, 1-NA, 2- manual, 3- RWD, 4- relatively light weight.
That eliminates almost all 911 and cayman/Boxster models, leaving only the GT3, GT4, and the Spyder (which is now basically a convertible GT4)
So with that criteria (excluding crazy rare numbered cars), the only true drivers cars that Porsche still makes are GT3/GT3T and the GT4/Spyder.
That eliminates almost all 911 and cayman/Boxster models, leaving only the GT3, GT4, and the Spyder (which is now basically a convertible GT4)
So with that criteria (excluding crazy rare numbered cars), the only true drivers cars that Porsche still makes are GT3/GT3T and the GT4/Spyder.
#69
As of last year 2/3 of US 991.2 GT3s were ordered with a manual. I have not seen more recent numbers but that’s not an insignificant amount of profit.
I believe Porsche’s marching orders are simple: if it doesn’t pay for itself don’t offer it. We haven’t seen sales figures but between 911Rs, 991.2 manuals and GT4s they’re likely around a billion dollars worth of sales on the latest manual GT cars? If that’s a niche it’s one most manufactures would kill for. So I agree it’s no longer mass market, but I strongly disagree that it’s not profit driven.
I believe Porsche’s marching orders are simple: if it doesn’t pay for itself don’t offer it. We haven’t seen sales figures but between 911Rs, 991.2 manuals and GT4s they’re likely around a billion dollars worth of sales on the latest manual GT cars? If that’s a niche it’s one most manufactures would kill for. So I agree it’s no longer mass market, but I strongly disagree that it’s not profit driven.
Its surprising how different markets can react - certainly down here there is a price point perception with manuals (rightly or wrongly).
However, I am 100% certain Porsche would stop making manuals if the revenue stream was not sufficient to meet the production investment/ROC case.
Last edited by groundhog; 07-10-2019 at 03:22 AM.
#70
According to Christophorus edition 391, just over 75% of all 911s and 718s are PDK.
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groundhog (07-10-2019)
#72
#73
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The development lead time on the manual gearbox can be measured in years and PAG management is made up of German engineers with MBAs... So there is a less than zero chance that it wasn't planned for from the start based on sales forecasts that also drove the final development of the PDK. PAG telling "influencers" and DE world champions otherwise was a marketing exercise.
#74
Drifting
The development lead time on the manual gearbox can be measured in years and PAG management is made up of German engineers with MBAs... So there is a less than zero chance that it wasn't planned for from the start based on sales forecasts that also drove the final development of the PDK. PAG telling "influencers" and DE world champions otherwise was a marketing exercise.
Car companies know what engines and gearboxes and tech will go into the next model like 2-3 model-years in advance. Do people really think the next model-year car is actually designed/built when rumors about it start to circulate? Porsche already has the 993 planned (or whatever it's gonna be called). New models aren't designed in real time. They are planned years in advance.
#75
No because a real drivers/enthusiasts car is 4 things, 1-NA, 2- manual, 3- RWD, 4- relatively light weight.
That eliminates almost all 911 and cayman/Boxster models, leaving only the GT3, GT4, and the Spyder (which is now basically a convertible GT4)
So with that criteria (excluding crazy rare numbered cars), the only true drivers cars that Porsche still makes are GT3/GT3T and the GT4/Spyder.
That eliminates almost all 911 and cayman/Boxster models, leaving only the GT3, GT4, and the Spyder (which is now basically a convertible GT4)
So with that criteria (excluding crazy rare numbered cars), the only true drivers cars that Porsche still makes are GT3/GT3T and the GT4/Spyder.
and by your own definition a gt3 will not be 'a real drivers car' either as point (4) relatively light weight absolutely does not apply given the modern gt3 is almost 1500kg....