yesyoucan

When people complain about their car and mechanical reliability.... better to try to resolve it with dealer/manufacture/nhtsa rather then just post half information on car forums. Here is an example of the types of complaints that are listed on nhtsa.gov (seems like they will take any type of complaint and post it for all to see).

1 Complaintsfor 2018 FERRARI 488 GTB

FILTER COMPLAINTS BY AFFECTED COMPONENTS

All (1)UNKNOWN OR OTHER (1)

April 1, 2019 NHTSA ID NUMBER: 11193117
Components: UNKNOWN OR OTHER
NHTSA ID Number: 11193117

Incident Date March 31, 2019

Consumer Location PORTLAND, OR

Vehicle Identification Number ZFF79ALA5J0****

Summary of Complaint

CRASHNo

FIRENo

INJURIES0

DEATHS0


THE TWO HORN "BUTTONS" ARE LOCATED IN THE STEERING RIM AT 9 AND 3. IT IS NOT A NORMAL LOCATION FOR THE HORN BUTTON WHICH IN ALL OTHER CARS IS IN THE CENTER OF THE STEERING WHEEL. TWO TIMES IN THE LAST 3 WEEKS I HAVE NEARLY HAD SOMEONE TURN INTO ME WHEN I CANNOT WARN THEM WITH MY HORN, DUE TO THE ILLOGICAL LOCATION OF THE "BUTTONS".

ranger22

Would you please quit posting that NHTSA stuff? It's really irrelevant and does nothing to further your argument. All it does is clog the thread.

bigskyGT3

Thanks for the posts CJ. Useful information based on real world experience. Hard to find sometimes...

A/S

Porsche is cheating, plain and simple. You can't buy a GT3RS or GT2RS equipped with Cup2R.

So the Woking support team in U.S. should show up with an extra set of wheels on Hoosier R7 (yes, the 600LT can run these tires on the stock wheels). If Porsche puts the press car on DOT-R tires that are not a factory option, then put the Hoosiers on the 600LT and proceed with the test. This will stop the cheat on the Cup2R stuff.

Dodge did the same with the Kumho V720 (ACR edition), it is such a cheater tire that Viper guys switching from V720 to R7 were running about the same lap times.

I have run plenty of Trofeo R, and they stick a little better than the MPSC2 N-spec, but the 600LT also runs on skinny 225/285, so narrower and a little stickier tires could still be at a disadvantage to fat 265/325 still sticky tires. By the way a vertical stack of my stock 285/335 C7Z06 (the 4 tires) had the same height as my 991.1 GT3 RS tires, so Porsche is running some pretty wider than normal 265/325. In fact, my 295 Hoosiers are barely wider than my stock 265, and my 345 Hoosiers are actually narrower than my stock 325.

On equal rubber, the 600LT will win. The GT3RS on stock tires would lap in 1:25-1:26 and not 1:23s. Cup2R are gaining 1.5 to 2 secs per minute over the Cup2 N-spec, the gap is bigger on turn intensive tracks, and smaller on track with lots of straights, but the gap is significant.

zmangt3

Went with hre. They are slightly heavier but much wider.

C.J. Ichiban

I'm speaking of race car variants.

Take COTA as a track we can all agree on, as a relative lap...it has every kind of radius corner and a lot of them, and a super fast straight with two other places to hit 140+ in a fast car.

A Gt3 cup runs a 2:10-2:11 or so depending on compound and weather.

A GT4 imsa racer with BOP will run 2:16-2:17

The only street car faster than a GT4 car will be a Senna, or maybe a Gt2RS MantheyR.

Breaking 2:20 in a STOCK road car is difficult.

And any car that can run a 2:16 (p1, viper acr maybe?, 918??,) is a BEAST of a car and either so miserable or track focused (new zr1, acr, senna i'm looking at you) that it's not an easy car to live with.

Broadly- in private hands on Cup 2 and Trofeo tires (which are close enough) the driver will make more difference over 20 turns in Austin vs the cars (3RS vs 600LT).

Cup 2R tires are EVERY BIT 1 second per minute faster.

Something to consider for aero cars like Senna, ACR, etc:

Most cars are similar through most corners, but eventually aero allows you to take a corner FLAT on the gas that you have to lift on otherwise. This is an example at Daytona on the kink, watkins glen on the uphill esses, buttonwillow at Riverside corner, road atlanta turn 12, sebring at bishop's (??) ,turn 8 at willow springs, turn 1 at sonoma, etc

You really gain massive amounts of time when you take a corner flat. It's 2-3 seconds per instance of that- the 675LT vs the ACR at buttonwillow comes down to that one corner, the acr is easy flat. The P1 is easy flat at willow springs and you take turn 8 at 140-150 mph, stay flat, bottom out, keep in it. If you slow down you are going 20-30mph slower for the whole corner.

In a way, the Cup2R is the same- but every corner you can carry 3-4-8 more mph so you brake 40-50 feet deeper on every 40-100mph corner. After 10-20 turns that's 1/8+ mile of distance spent rolling or still on the gas...

zmangt3

I agree..I love hearing about all the mac models when I have been a Porsche guy for years and I have a hard time keeping up with all of the 991 variants. The resale comments are comical as well. Looks at hard numbers not hear say. 3 year old mac sells for about 60 % of pp which is right in line with Porsche except for GT cars. However there have been some recent postings of guys taking big hits selling their 991.1 rs so I guess that's changing. The LT mac's being limited runs have shown to be a little stronger than the other macs

yesyoucan

Very odd... Thread is going in one direction then people start introducing other topics and don't expect people to respond to it.

Back on topic;

Who here has actually tracked a gt3rs.1 or 2 and a 600 LT more then 4 times that can share their impressions. Real owners and not some magazine test?

For a typical track day (20 to 25 cars on track).

600 LT will probably over power more cars then a gt3rs (point by's aren't going to be required)
higher risk of crashing a gt3rs as you will have to get closer to cars before the higher speed areas of a track and you run the risk of getting too close to them and lifting
600 LT is more exotic looking
Go after market with brakes/rotors on a 600 LT and consumables are going to be comparable between the two
You can get away with yo-yo acceleration out of turns with a mid engine car but harder to do in a rear engine car (much easier to do a 180 degree spin in an RS then a 600 LT)
You can take turns off in a 600 LT and still out accelerate people. You can't take turns off in a gt3rs if you want to pass people
Specifically for our tracks (laguna seca); option is available to not have sound violation in an rs but one has to lift or manipulate on track with a 600 LT.
600LT is warrantied on track (no wink/wink look aways by dealer)

Above; are my impressions after having more than 4 track days each with 600 LT and an RS. I consider myself non pro and a decently quick amateur driver.

Real life feedback from people of how they are making their decision:

1) person who isn't cost sensitive; he didn't think it was a big enough bump difference between .1 and .2 rs. Might as well try something different and 600 LT is the closest price option when new
2) person who is cost sensitive; I'll go with gt3rs because it is cheaper

zmangt3

Good info. Thanks

J9277655

I feel this arm chair bickering is kinda pointless, but for what it's worth I had a 991.1 GT3 I tracked all the time, sold it after a year w/ 9k miles for a 991.1 RS. Did 16k miles in two years w/ half at the track. Now have a weissach 991.2 RS that i've begun to track.

I bought a used 675LT w/ roof scoop in January. I love my porsche RS's, but this car has a lot more on offer for the overall experience than any P car except a 918. Honestly my old man has a 918 and i feel i got a similar experience at a quarter of the price.

I cant say the 675LT is faster than a GT3 RS, but it certainly feels like it is, and it certainly feels like way more fun when i'm not driving 10/10ths as well.

Love my RS and wont be getting rid of it, but definitely a v different experience in my opinion

whojoemama

i’m sorry sir, we’re going to have to ask you to leave....

br911

I have never tracked a Mac, so can't contribute much on the comparo, but If I may, recent financials published this week clearly indicate that people are not moving away from the Mac brand at all. 2018 revenues were GBP 1.1 billion, almost double GBP 650 MM revenues in 2017. 45% more cars sold in 2018.

So there is a clientele that does appreciate the Macs and some clients might buy several of them, who knows. We all tend to magnify the impact of the negative stories we hear., but I am pretty sure Woking feels they are doing the right thing with their cars and marketing (perhaps apart from F1).

zmangt3

Wow that is some serious growth. They must be doing something right

360MVA

The 675 LT is a keeper. It is a beautiful car and with incredible performance. The Senna is in another league.

360MVA

The truth is that Mclaren is building some exciting cars and they are taking customers from Ferrari & Lambo, maybe not so many from Porsche as it is a different price point. They still have some things to sort out but overall they are building some hot cars BUT haters are always going to hate.