Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban

I The 718 GT4 and 570GT4 will be faster than any of these streetcars. And cheaper.

Originally Posted by groundhog

CJ care to elaborate on the 718 GT4 - reason, I am extremely close to finalising a deal on a .2 RS and have been on the books for a 982 718 GT4 for two years - if I go the RS I will not be getting the GT4 (due to space) and am presuming quite a few things e.g. RS more robust engine, suspension, gear box etc - am I mistaken (note RS to be used for tarmac rallying e.g. needs to have been road registered at point of sale as part of supp regs.), are Porsche throwing the works at the 718 GT4? (not clubsport).

Originally Posted by yesyoucan

I've seen your postings with Mac experience... I'll post this again. This is from NHTSA.Gov website when it talks about recalls/manufacture communications/customer complaints.

38 Manufacturer Communicationsfor 2018 PORSCHE 911 GT3

FILTER MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATIONS BY AFFECTED COMPONENTS

All (38)AIR BAGS (3)BACK OVER PREVENTION (2)ELECTRICAL SYSTEM (5)ENGINE (2)ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING (4)EQUIPMENT (7)EQUIPMENT ADAPTIVE (1)FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE (3)POWER TRAIN (1)SERVICE BRAKES (1)SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC (1)STRUCTURE (5)SUSPENSION (1)VISIBILITY (4)WHEELS (5)





February 25, 2019 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-J5W5T-03
Components: VISIBILITY
NHTSA ID Number: 10155086

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-J5W5T-03

Summary

Rear View Mirror Falls Off the Windshield

3 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

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December 14, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-C7B2H-01
Components: EQUIPMENT, WHEELS
NHTSA ID Number: 10153562

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-C7B2H-01

Summary

Subject: Magnesium wheels

Information: The demand for the equipment option "Weissach package" was significantly higher than

originally calculated. This resulted in supply bottlenecks, for example, for the supplier of the

magnesium wheels contained in this package.

1 Affected Product
1 Associated Document

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December 12, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-U4G4A-01
Components: EQUIPMENT
NHTSA ID Number: 10153564

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-U4G4A-01

Summary

Subject: Air conditioning

Symptom: Complaint about "knocking noises" from the underbody area.

3 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

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November 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-E6U4B-12
Components: POWER TRAIN
NHTSA ID Number: 10153573

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-E6U4B-12

Summary

Subject: Shift lever

Information: The shift lever can move in longitudinal direction during load changes in 4th gear.

16 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

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November 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-C9S9Q-12
Components: WHEELS, SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
NHTSA ID Number: 10153577

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-C9S9Q-12

Summary

Loose M6 Screws Securing PCCB Rotors to Wheel Hub

4 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

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October 23, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-G6G3Q-11
Components: STRUCTURE
NHTSA ID Number: 10147454

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-G6G3Q-11

Summary

Subject: Moulding for side window

Concern: There is a possibility that the wrong lubricant was used for fitting the side windows.

If this is the case, there may be a chemical reaction and this will damage the coating on the moulding.

2 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)


September 7, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-Q5H6W-10
Components: STRUCTURE
NHTSA ID Number: 10145556

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-Q5H6W-10

Summary

Information: Due to amanufacturing error, there is a possibility that the front screws for securing the rear

axle struts to the body do not meet the required specifications.

As a result, the front fastening screws can break over the service life of the vehicle.

Remedial

Action:

Replace front fastening screws on rear axle struts

2 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

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August 17, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-D4X2J-09
Components: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
NHTSA ID Number: 10148788

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-D4X2J-09

Summary

Customer Concern

The customer receives a call from the Porsche call center as if the airbag has deployed and the vehicle made an e-call. No such airbag deployment or e-call occurred. This is a false alarm.

Technical Background

This issue results from a conflict between the airbag module and Vodafone telematics service. A future additional Porsche AG action may also correct the issue.

1 Affected Product
1 Associated Document

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August 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-Y9K4F-09
Components: WHEELS
NHTSA ID Number: 10148784

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-Y9K4F-09

Summary

Symptom: During and after race track use, loud noises can sometimes come from the wheel assembly on the rear axle - particularly on bends.

Cause: Particles of dirt on the contact surfaces can cause micro-movements in the wheel assembly on the rear axle (rim/brake disc/wheel hub) and this can result in loud noises.

Remedial

Action:

In the event of a customer complaint, clean the wheel assembly on the rear axle as described under "Work Procedure".

8 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)


August 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-D7K9V-09
Components: ENGINE
NHTSA ID Number: 10148783

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-D7K9V-09

Summary

Complaint - Incorrect Allocation of Fault Code (P0153/P0133) for Oxygen Sensor

(upstream of Catalytic Converter): Replacing both oxygen sensors (upstreamof catalytic

converter) (89/18)

8 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)


July 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-W9X4Z-08
Components: SUSPENSION
NHTSA ID Number: 10143833

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-W9X4Z-08

Summary

Customer Concern

The customer states that the front axle lift function is not working.

Technical Background

The front strut leaks air. A tool with minor damage at the supplier was causing minor damages to struts during production.

5 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)




July 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-B2S6Q-08
Components: STRUCTURE
NHTSA ID Number: 10143834

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-B2S6Q-08

Summary

Technical Background

Bubbles are caused by contamination during the paint process.

Service Information

There is no paint repair solution. The carbon fiber components with the issue must be replaced.

1 Affected Product
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)


July 5, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-M2N8X-08
Components: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
NHTSA ID Number: 10143830

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-M2N8X-08

Summary

Subject: Electric fuel pump

Information: There is a possibility that a fuel pressure control valve with a characteristic that does notmeet

the required specifications was installed in the fuel pump on the affected vehicles.

If this is the case, the valve will open too early and the fuel pressure will fall below the specified minimum

pressure. This can result in a reduced fuel supply and the Check Engine light may be activated.

1 Affected Product
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)


June 6, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-J7H9T-07
Components: EQUIPMENT, EQUIPMENT ADAPTIVE
NHTSA ID Number: 10143514

Manufacturer Communication Number: 122-J7H9T-07

Summary

Symptom: The plastic rear window can become damaged or part of it can become visibly detached from the body due to different temperatures and tension while driving.

This can cause wind noise.

Cause: The components of the rear window ? plastic (polycarbonate), screen print and primer ? are not chemically compatible.

4 Affected Products
1 Associated Document

Request Research (Services fees apply)

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You get the idea?

Originally Posted by isv

And yet the GT race cars don't seem to have an issue putting on far wider front tyres funnily enough....

as far as the article is concerned, it's a non contest given the 3rs was on Cup2R it was always going to be quicker. The Cup2R are just a lot quicker a tyre than a Trofeo albeit one that wears even faster than the Pirelli.

not saying Mclaren are perfect as the cars are in general more fragile and less suited to being hammered on track even if they were built properly which isn't always the case but the cars are very very quick and imo do drive very well.

Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban

I just beat on a 600LT at Laguna yesterday and did not incur any gremlins or issues. That being said- I did properly bed in the pads and rotors beforehand, and I drive with minimal driver aids.

Having owned every recent mclaren and every GT car, and having tracked all of each

( no really every one: Porsche: Boxster Spyder, Carrera GT, GT4, 997 GT3, 997.1 RS, 997.2 RS, 997GT2RS, 991.1, 991.2, 911R, 991 GT2RS AND the GT4 clubsport, Gt3 cup...all owned at one point and all tracked except 997 2RS)

(mcLaren 12c, 650, 675, p1, 600LT, 570 spider, 720, incoming senna, 570 GT4)

There are a lot of generalities floating around but as a McLaren insider, and a Porsche fanboy...the mclaren cars are like roulette- it is possible to get a car that is bad. Porsche has cars that get bought back as well, but my theory is that like the AMG 'one man one engine' thing...you either get a Good McLaren (no issues unless you hit something) or a BAD McLaren.

If new guy Felipe builds your car, it's not as good of a car as Thomas the 7 year assembler. We would have some cars come in PERFECT. And some would consistently have niggling issues. They are a fast growing, fast evolving brand. Porsche is incredibly established. They do build the most durable cars, and the most tested and tortured cars during development are from
stuttgart. Porsche makes 80,000 911's a year worldwide. McLaren makes ~4500 cars.


I have owned and tracked the 2019 3RS and 2019 600LT. Both are great. I have driven the 718 GT4 racer and the 570 Gt4 race car. Both are easy and approachable.

Looks are subjective, as is color choice.
The 600LT is prettier to me, the 3RS sounds better and has more grip. The 600LT is more playful and slides around more. The 3RS is easier to get serviced in more locales.

These are champagne issues and caviar arguments. The 718 GT4 and 570GT4 will be faster than any of these streetcars. And cheaper.

Originally Posted by Waxer

No. I don’t.

First, your premise is totally misleading. This is not the first time you posted this type of info as if this brings Porsches down to the same level of unreliablity issues and complaints as Mac.

Originally Posted by Waxer

Second, These are service items. In and out burgers for the most part. Further many of these item are common to all models. PAG produces WAY more cars than Mac and there were only 38 items?

Originally Posted by Waxer

Third- these are not items and issues that have owners running from the brand with horror stories and banging the walls in frustration.

Originally Posted by Waxer

Fouth- very rare do you hear issues with Porsche service or responsiveness to customer issues.

Originally Posted by Waxer

Can you post post the same info for Mac? Let’s take a look.

Originally Posted by Waxer

[Bottom line. Seems like it’s pot luck with Mac. You could pick a good one off the lot or...to many times for comfort (at least for what I’ve seen and read) you end up with a problem child. Mac resale is abysmal for a reason or reasons and no doubt reliability issues play a role. You can put as much mustard on that hotdog you want but there is still gonna be a hot dog under there.

Originally Posted by Waxer

Cup R and Trofeo R are pretty damn close in performance with edge to Cup R.

Mac also had a 100 hp advantage and weight advantage by 150lbs.

Looked like a fair fight to me.

Originally Posted by 99Gdzra

I DO realize this is Rennlist... a Porsche biased forum... also realize y’all drink the Porsche koolaid... but compare your top track car to their sport series is comical. Put an RS on the track with a 675LT, or a 720S and see what you get? A liiiiiittle better test results I’ll bet.

I came from McLaren cars back to Porsche and I’m not impressed with this car compared to my Mclaren on any level. Straight line performance isn’t even in the same ballpark, and as far as “turning” corners, whatevs. To me, a car that can pin you back in the seat until you get scared and not puff out in power is equally as exciting as turning corners.. and McLaren is the car that delivers on that.

As as far as McLaren service sucking.., well... depends on where you take it. Their cars aren’t perfect, but even Porsche’s aren’t perfect either. I fancy the perfect unicorn car is the one in each of our minds that we fashioned “perfect” in our lil world. I owned a 650S that WAS a pos.., but I loooooved that car! I’ve owned multiple Porsche’s that aren’t perfect but I love them too. I’m a car guy, and I HAAAATE when people make their brand of choice the “IT” must have best car ever kind of car... truth is, if you pick a platform I’ll show you a way to beat said car.

Originally Posted by 360MVA

I love when people talk about what they "think" as opposed to actual experience. I have had about 20 Porsches over the years starting in 99' and they have all been wonderful ( I started young). I have had 2 McLarens within 24 months and so far so good, same for numerous friends of mine. I wouldn't drop 350K to $400k on a car if it was as you described.

Originally Posted by .dee

the gap between Cup 2 to Trofeos is much narrower than Cup 2 to Cup R's, so no, these are not "that" close.
.

Originally Posted by Ducati1199

It's normal to express a negative, personal experience but the current crop of Mac Sport and Super series cars do not have inherent reliability issues. MacSF held a track day in May at Sonoma and again at Laguna Seca in June with 35+ Macs both days and no issues.

Originally Posted by catdog2

I would have expected that with a 570S but isn't the 600 lt supposed to be the track special version? With that engine and turbos should have smoked the rs.

Problem with mclaren is too many models and too many iterations and segmentations of the same basic engine. They tune it differently with software and come up with too many model variants too quickly. They also artificially hold back some of their lower range models with suboptimal tires sizing.

Gets boring after a while and kills resale value for their customers.

Originally Posted by zmangt3

Variety is the spice of life. I drove the 600 and decided it was time to get rid of the rs. I have had porsches for the last 15 years but I have to say the 600 is at another level at least for me. Can really feel it on the track. I have changed the exhaust and gone to a 325 in the rear which really made even more difference

Originally Posted by 360MVA

Porsches are very reliable but considering how many they build and for how long you would hope there would be fewer issues. Fact is these are mechanical products and no matter how much testing there will be problems. How the problems are resolved are what's important and Porsche has generally stepped up.



Similar to the Mac issues, they are generally service items although I know of a few that had problems that were recurring. No different than any other brand I've owned.



Who is running from the brand? "Most" Mac owners are ordering newer models. Sure there might be an occasional defector but that is not the norm. I do love how people make this sh it up though.



This is by dealer. I will say that McLaren corp needs to do a better job in certain areas. I hope they work it out as they grow. They are still a relatively new company building road cars. Having said this they do a lot of things very well.




Since people are running from the brand it should be easily enough for you to find a list of all the issues. You know how people love to complain on forums.



What have you actually experienced yourself? I am assuming nothing. I am on my 2nd car with no issues whatsoever.

You speak about resale, Try buying a new 911, Cayenne or Pan - they drop like a rock. Worse than any car(s) I have ever owned. I lost 10% retailing my last 720 after 18 months, try that with a 911.

I love when people talk about what they "think" as opposed to actual experience. I have had about 20 Porsches over the years starting in 99' and they have all been wonderful ( I started young). I have had 2 McLarens within 24 months and so far so good, same for numerous friends of mine. I wouldn't drop 350K to $400k on a car if it was as you described.