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Nannies?

 
Old 05-15-2019, 11:57 PM
  #31  
Petevb
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Originally Posted by montoya View Post
^ off for autocross, although all I experience is understeer!
Lol. I definitely don’t have that problem.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:01 AM
  #32  
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I keep them all on when on track. Yesterday I was at Sonoma, it was cold, cloudy and my tires are pretty heat cycled out.

Was pretty easy to slide the back out due to the low traction, under power or under break, nannies didn't take away from that fun (although my track times were abmissmal until later in the day).

Once things warmed up the back end stayed more planted, nannies occasionally kicked in when cresting the hill on corner 3 and into 6. But the cars pretty unweighted.

I use it as a signal that I'm on edge and need to get smoother, find a better line etc.

I turn it off when I want to destroy tires and drive sideways.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by montoya View Post
^ off for autocross, although all I experience is understeer!
What tires do you have? I autox with the stock Michelin Cup 2's, and they work great until they get worn. After 10,000 miles and about 10 autox's, they need replacing. They also need a couple of turns to get heat into them.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:05 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by krell View Post
Yessir, was a regular on M3F for a good 8-10 years. Learned a lot and while I still have the M3 I'm learning another German language . . . Porsche-eese.

Same and the Porsche-eese is new for me too. Just don't forget the E46 dialect though, it's still my favorite...for now.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:11 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Chris88 View Post
What tires do you have? I autox with the stock Michelin Cup 2's, and they work great until they get worn. After 10,000 miles and about 10 autox's, they need replacing. They also need a couple of turns to get heat into them.
This was with stock Dunlops, pretty fresh. They also need heat, more than the first gen. I also have a set of 19s for Hoosiers but I have yet to run them.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:59 AM
  #36  
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ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver. Let's you rotate the car in turns but would protect from spinning.
If it's really wet I switch everything off just to have fun on track but would not dare to go for a quick time.

IMHO nanies are too intrusive as they have to be in order to work properly in 100% situations. I have not seen yet a time attack of a pro driver having nannies ON. That means something but doesn't mean that a very good driver needs to have them off, too.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:10 AM
  #37  
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Porsche Nannies.. My mind goes offtopic fast on this one.

On-topic; Totally agreed with qbix: "ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver."


Originally Posted by Einmalig View Post
I gave considerable thought to hiring a nanny, but my wife was opposed the idea, mostly because we don’t have kids.
Do you usually speak with or to your wife?
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:17 AM
  #38  
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Lars Kern‘s setup for the Nordschleife GT2RS record lap:
ESC OFF
TC ON
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:55 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Chris88 View Post
What tires do you have? I autox with the stock Michelin Cup 2's, and they work great until they get worn. After 10,000 miles and about 10 autox's, they need replacing. They also need a couple of turns to get heat into them.
Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
This was with stock Dunlops, pretty fresh. They also need heat, more than the first gen. I also have a set of 19s for Hoosiers but I have yet to run them.
I ran the standard Cup2 that came with the car. We run in a very tight parking lot at PIR so YMMV. I'm sure I was pushing a little too hard, but my time wasn't too far off from the top time of the day. I just couldn't get any rear end rotation and probably should have been less aggressive with the throttle. I'm sure there is some setup too, I ran everything as it came from the factory. If you guys get some rotation with a different setup (other than tire pressures) I would love to know...
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:04 AM
  #40  
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Andrie Hartanto, one of the most talented drivers here in the Bay Area, has told me that he can drive just as fast of a lap with the system off or on. The only difference is that he has to slightly alter his driving style. This is a guy who knows how to maintain slip angle at corner entry, mid, and exit like it's nothing. We are talking about road courses, though, not autocross. I can't speak for autocross.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:20 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by qbix View Post
ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver. Let's you rotate the car in turns but would protect from spinning.
If it's really wet I switch everything off just to have fun on track but would not dare to go for a quick time.

IMHO nanies are too intrusive as they have to be in order to work properly in 100% situations. I have not seen yet a time attack of a pro driver having nannies ON. That means something but doesn't mean that a very good driver needs to have them off, too.
So disabling ESC, and just running TC still has some degree of yaw control? I was thinking TC only would just prevent wheel spin during accel. I'll probably just leave them both on for COTA this weekend, but I'd like to try this on a more open track.

Originally Posted by orthojoe View Post
Andrie Hartanto, one of the most talented drivers here in the Bay Area, has told me that he can drive just as fast of a lap with the system off or on. The only difference is that he has to slightly alter his driving style. This is a guy who knows how to maintain slip angle at corner entry, mid, and exit like it's nothing. We are talking about road courses, though, not autocross. I can't speak for autocross.
Agreed. That guy is fun to watch drive in an M3. He ran for Bimmerworld in the Conti series for a bit as well.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:50 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by montoya View Post
I ran the standard Cup2 that came with the car. We run in a very tight parking lot at PIR so YMMV. I'm sure I was pushing a little too hard, but my time wasn't too far off from the top time of the day. I just couldn't get any rear end rotation and probably should have been less aggressive with the throttle. I'm sure there is some setup too, I ran everything as it came from the factory. If you guys get some rotation with a different setup (other than tire pressures) I would love to know...
More tail happy is easy to dial in with the bars, obviously- just soften the front and/ or stiffen the rear. That said I get easy rotation without changing anything on a number of corners. It's course/ corner dependent, but driving style could also be the key depending on what you're doing. One guaranteed way to get the tail out is to trail brake into a tighter, longer corner to weight the front and lighten the rear. You'll get some amount of slip angle at the back depending on how aggressive you are, then transition to the throttle and dial in your desired angle.

Coming from older semi-trailing arm 911s this all feels very natural because it's practically the only way early cars get around tight corners quickly. With the 991's multi-link, rear steer, PTV, etc it's very quick regardless, but I do find those systems make dialing in the desired amount of drift relative child's play once the rear starts to slide. It's almost as if some invisible magnet helps prevent the rear from getting too far out of shape under power- it certainly flatters compared to even the 997 GT3 RS, etc.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:52 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Jickel180 View Post
So disabling ESC, and just running TC still has some degree of yaw control? I was thinking TC only would just prevent wheel spin during accel. I'll probably just leave them both on for COTA this weekend, but I'd like to try this on a more open track.
TC does only prevent the rear wheels from spinning under power. The only yaw control is that it prevents lighting up the rear tires and the resulting sliding of the rear.

The ESC's yaw control is more important (to me). If someone were to lift in a fast corner resulting in the beginning of a spin, it will independently brake one or more wheels to bring the car back in line (this is where it can save you a trip to the wall).
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by montoya View Post
I ran the standard Cup2 that came with the car. We run in a very tight parking lot at PIR so YMMV. I'm sure I was pushing a little too hard, but my time wasn't too far off from the top time of the day. I just couldn't get any rear end rotation and probably should have been less aggressive with the throttle. I'm sure there is some setup too, I ran everything as it came from the factory. If you guys get some rotation with a different setup (other than tire pressures) I would love to know...
I believe we were at the same recent PCA autocross, or there was another Pastel Orange GT3 there that day.

I had the car aligned to these settings and found the rotation to be almost on par with the 718s, especially with trail braking + throttle method: 2.5 camber all around, 0 toe front, .2 toe in rear, bar in middle front and rear. You can adjust bars to suit your style but I left them at the factory setting. Stock Cup 2s at 32/34 pressure. I run with the sport PASM mode also but found it too stiff for the street and would probably have done worse at PIR with it on had it not been repaved.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:23 PM
  #45  
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A lot of good comments here—particularly regarding the excellence of Porsche's PSM/ESC systems and the lack of upside in turning them off vs the risks. And yes, agree on the need to defeat them in BMWs vs no need to defeat them in Porsches. Generally speaking, if I am doing something that triggers these systems, I probably am not doing it right—and yes the later versions are pretty liberal if they sense you know what you're up to.

I can really only think of two instances in 20 years where I found myself reaching for PSM/ESC off: Once in a modified 987 Cayman S without LSD that was crimping down on the run due to inside wheel spin 10~ years ago, and then last week in the Speedster, in an experiment to see if the PTV (or?) would sharpen things up with ESC off. I can see where some defeat the system in autocross to get the car to pivot more easily, or on track to avoid rear brake wear, but Porsche has long set the standard with these systems. YMMV, but turning them off is, IMO, a bad idea in 95-99% of cases. The safety net is fantastic, with little if any cost to forward progress or fun.
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