Nannies?
#31
#32
Racer
I keep them all on when on track. Yesterday I was at Sonoma, it was cold, cloudy and my tires are pretty heat cycled out.
Was pretty easy to slide the back out due to the low traction, under power or under break, nannies didn't take away from that fun (although my track times were abmissmal until later in the day).
Once things warmed up the back end stayed more planted, nannies occasionally kicked in when cresting the hill on corner 3 and into 6. But the cars pretty unweighted.
I use it as a signal that I'm on edge and need to get smoother, find a better line etc.
I turn it off when I want to destroy tires and drive sideways.
Was pretty easy to slide the back out due to the low traction, under power or under break, nannies didn't take away from that fun (although my track times were abmissmal until later in the day).
Once things warmed up the back end stayed more planted, nannies occasionally kicked in when cresting the hill on corner 3 and into 6. But the cars pretty unweighted.
I use it as a signal that I'm on edge and need to get smoother, find a better line etc.
I turn it off when I want to destroy tires and drive sideways.
#33
Burning Brakes
What tires do you have? I autox with the stock Michelin Cup 2's, and they work great until they get worn. After 10,000 miles and about 10 autox's, they need replacing. They also need a couple of turns to get heat into them.
#34
Rennlist Member
Same and the Porsche-eese is new for me too. Just don't forget the E46 dialect though, it's still my favorite...for now.
#35
This was with stock Dunlops, pretty fresh. They also need heat, more than the first gen. I also have a set of 19s for Hoosiers but I have yet to run them.
#36
ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver. Let's you rotate the car in turns but would protect from spinning.
If it's really wet I switch everything off just to have fun on track but would not dare to go for a quick time.
IMHO nanies are too intrusive as they have to be in order to work properly in 100% situations. I have not seen yet a time attack of a pro driver having nannies ON. That means something but doesn't mean that a very good driver needs to have them off, too.
If it's really wet I switch everything off just to have fun on track but would not dare to go for a quick time.
IMHO nanies are too intrusive as they have to be in order to work properly in 100% situations. I have not seen yet a time attack of a pro driver having nannies ON. That means something but doesn't mean that a very good driver needs to have them off, too.
#37
Instructor
Porsche Nannies.. My mind goes offtopic fast on this one.
On-topic; Totally agreed with qbix: "ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver."
Do you usually speak with or to your wife?
On-topic; Totally agreed with qbix: "ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver."
Do you usually speak with or to your wife?
#39
Rennlist Member
#40
Nordschleife Master
Andrie Hartanto, one of the most talented drivers here in the Bay Area, has told me that he can drive just as fast of a lap with the system off or on. The only difference is that he has to slightly alter his driving style. This is a guy who knows how to maintain slip angle at corner entry, mid, and exit like it's nothing. We are talking about road courses, though, not autocross. I can't speak for autocross.
#41
Rennlist Member
ESC off, TC on. That is a perfect balance for an intermediate to experienced driver. Let's you rotate the car in turns but would protect from spinning.
If it's really wet I switch everything off just to have fun on track but would not dare to go for a quick time.
IMHO nanies are too intrusive as they have to be in order to work properly in 100% situations. I have not seen yet a time attack of a pro driver having nannies ON. That means something but doesn't mean that a very good driver needs to have them off, too.
If it's really wet I switch everything off just to have fun on track but would not dare to go for a quick time.
IMHO nanies are too intrusive as they have to be in order to work properly in 100% situations. I have not seen yet a time attack of a pro driver having nannies ON. That means something but doesn't mean that a very good driver needs to have them off, too.
Andrie Hartanto, one of the most talented drivers here in the Bay Area, has told me that he can drive just as fast of a lap with the system off or on. The only difference is that he has to slightly alter his driving style. This is a guy who knows how to maintain slip angle at corner entry, mid, and exit like it's nothing. We are talking about road courses, though, not autocross. I can't speak for autocross.
#42
I ran the standard Cup2 that came with the car. We run in a very tight parking lot at PIR so YMMV. I'm sure I was pushing a little too hard, but my time wasn't too far off from the top time of the day. I just couldn't get any rear end rotation and probably should have been less aggressive with the throttle. I'm sure there is some setup too, I ran everything as it came from the factory. If you guys get some rotation with a different setup (other than tire pressures) I would love to know...
Coming from older semi-trailing arm 911s this all feels very natural because it's practically the only way early cars get around tight corners quickly. With the 991's multi-link, rear steer, PTV, etc it's very quick regardless, but I do find those systems make dialing in the desired amount of drift relative child's play once the rear starts to slide. It's almost as if some invisible magnet helps prevent the rear from getting too far out of shape under power- it certainly flatters compared to even the 997 GT3 RS, etc.
#43
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The ESC's yaw control is more important (to me). If someone were to lift in a fast corner resulting in the beginning of a spin, it will independently brake one or more wheels to bring the car back in line (this is where it can save you a trip to the wall).
#44
I ran the standard Cup2 that came with the car. We run in a very tight parking lot at PIR so YMMV. I'm sure I was pushing a little too hard, but my time wasn't too far off from the top time of the day. I just couldn't get any rear end rotation and probably should have been less aggressive with the throttle. I'm sure there is some setup too, I ran everything as it came from the factory. If you guys get some rotation with a different setup (other than tire pressures) I would love to know...
I had the car aligned to these settings and found the rotation to be almost on par with the 718s, especially with trail braking + throttle method: 2.5 camber all around, 0 toe front, .2 toe in rear, bar in middle front and rear. You can adjust bars to suit your style but I left them at the factory setting. Stock Cup 2s at 32/34 pressure. I run with the sport PASM mode also but found it too stiff for the street and would probably have done worse at PIR with it on had it not been repaved.
#45
Rennlist Member
A lot of good comments here—particularly regarding the excellence of Porsche's PSM/ESC systems and the lack of upside in turning them off vs the risks. And yes, agree on the need to defeat them in BMWs vs no need to defeat them in Porsches. Generally speaking, if I am doing something that triggers these systems, I probably am not doing it right—and yes the later versions are pretty liberal if they sense you know what you're up to.
I can really only think of two instances in 20 years where I found myself reaching for PSM/ESC off: Once in a modified 987 Cayman S without LSD that was crimping down on the run due to inside wheel spin 10~ years ago, and then last week in the Speedster, in an experiment to see if the PTV (or?) would sharpen things up with ESC off. I can see where some defeat the system in autocross to get the car to pivot more easily, or on track to avoid rear brake wear, but Porsche has long set the standard with these systems. YMMV, but turning them off is, IMO, a bad idea in 95-99% of cases. The safety net is fantastic, with little if any cost to forward progress or fun.
I can really only think of two instances in 20 years where I found myself reaching for PSM/ESC off: Once in a modified 987 Cayman S without LSD that was crimping down on the run due to inside wheel spin 10~ years ago, and then last week in the Speedster, in an experiment to see if the PTV (or?) would sharpen things up with ESC off. I can see where some defeat the system in autocross to get the car to pivot more easily, or on track to avoid rear brake wear, but Porsche has long set the standard with these systems. YMMV, but turning them off is, IMO, a bad idea in 95-99% of cases. The safety net is fantastic, with little if any cost to forward progress or fun.