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991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R
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2020 GT3 Downforce

 
Old 05-13-2019, 09:43 AM
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Nizer
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Default 2020 GT3 Downforce

Look at the size of that diffuser. Between that and the wider front end look another step up in downforce vs 991.2 GT3.


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Old 05-13-2019, 10:13 AM
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E92 M
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downforce is fast but is it "fun"? honestly curious, b/c i've never driven a high DF car.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:23 AM
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Alan C.
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A well balanced lower grip car can be a lot of fun to drive.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by E92 M View Post
downforce is fast but is it "fun"? honestly curious, b/c i've never driven a high DF car.
This is an interesting thought. I know everyone wants to imagine they are a top tier driver but realistically most of us aren’t and will never be there. Are these cars being developed to the point that the capability of the car is so far beyond the average driver? Would a less capable car more compatible to the drivers personal limits be more fun to own?
(not in any way suggesting theu should stop developing or increasing future cars capabilities. Just a thought for discussion)
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:54 AM
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I think half the people here would have more fun bit*h slapping a Miata around the track sideways than taking their GT3 to 60% of its capabilities, but their ego won’t permit them to drive a lesser car.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:00 PM
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Last week I drove a 911R on Road Atlanta alternating with a 991.2 GT3RS. So basically identical cars but with the difference of one being a "downforce" car and the other having "no lift" at best. Yes, the keyboard warriors will point out that suspension settings are different also, but this is about as close i could come to a direct meaningful comparison. and...

i could really feel the difference in setup under heavy braking.. coming down the back straight before turn 10a/b, in the the GT3RS the rear was very planted, very confidence inspiring. In the 911R, i had to get off the gas sooner so that i could get the car in a straight line before even thinking of touching the brakes. Also, in the esses after turn 3, the 911R tended to wag a little bit when transitioning from braking to acceleration. But we're talking very high speed, back straight could reach 150mph relatively easily with RS, couldn't get past 130mph with the R as there was a significant extra safety margin required, the car just didn't feel as planted.

we later drove both cars on twisty normal roads for 2-3 days for smokies... everything comes back to normal, almost parity. Suspension settings are similar enough to where when. You drive them, from super tight roads like the Dragon, to long flowing roads like the Cherohala.. you're driving essentially the same car. We're talking speeds up to 90mph and slowing to 40-60mph in curves.. my ham-fisted *** couldn't tell a difference.

So in conclusion (mine)... when you take two 911's with the same engine, with the major difference being a bunch of aero.. an average guy like me can only tell on track the difference.



(have to work, will finish writing this later)

Last edited by CAlexio; 05-13-2019 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
Last week I drove a 911R on Road Atlanta alternating with a 991.2 GT3RS. So basically identical cars but with the difference of one being a "downforce" car and the other having "no lift" at best. Yes, the keyboard warriors will point out that suspension settings are different also, but this is about as close i could come to a direct meaningful comparison. and...

i could really feel the difference in setup under heavy braking.. coming down the back straight before turn 10a/b, in the the GT3RS the rear was very planted, very confidence inspiring. In the 911R, i had to get off the gas sooner so that i could get the car in a straight line before even thinking of touching the brakes. Also, in the esses after turn 3, the 911R tended to wag a little bit when transitioning from braking to acceleration. But we're talking very high speed, back straight could reach 150mph relatively easily with RS, couldn't get past 130mph with the R as there was a signific



(have to work, will finish writing this later)
You started losing me at "basically identical cars..." On track, the 911R and the .2 3RS couldn't be anymore different, as you found out. These two cars are quite far apart in aero, suspension, transmission etc. The only similarities are the engines. Glad you got seat-time back around Road Atlanta in two awesome cars though
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Quikag View Post
I think half the people here would have more fun bit*h slapping a Miata around the track sideways than taking their GT3 to 60% of its capabilities, but their ego won’t permit them to drive a lesser car.
^^^^^Agreed
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan C. View Post
A well balanced lower grip car can be a lot of fun to drive.
Yes, we call those Boxster Spyders.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan C. View Post
A well balanced lower grip car can be a lot of fun to drive.
Yes, but generally the speeds at which one would want to slide around in a low-grip car are far lower than those where downforce becomes relevant. Downforce is a high speed phenomenon and I can't imagine it being anything buy helpful at the kind of speeds where it starts to work (think 125mph and higher). At lower speeds, the downforce is not doing anything - it's not helping and it's not getting in the way of your fun. I'll take the downforce every time, if you expect to be going quickly (think Nordschleife, Autobahn, and a few US tracks with very fast corners).
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GrantG View Post
Yes, but generally the speeds at which one would want to slide around in a low-grip car are far lower than those where downforce becomes relevant. Downforce is a high speed phenomenon and I can't imagine it being anything buy helpful at the kind of speeds where it starts to work (think 125mph and higher). At lower speeds, the downforce is not doing anything - it's not helping and it's not getting in the way of your fun. I'll take the downforce every time, if you expect to be going quickly (think Nordschleife, Autobahn, and a few US tracks with very fast corners).
100% agreed on the principle. Not sure about the 125mph threshold but I get your point.

Note: If you haven't driven a high grip car - slicks and loads of downforce (no street car counts) - you're missing out on a great track experience. It may not be for everyone, but it's incredibly fun. Pulling over 2Gs in a corner is very thrilling. Add to that no nannies and no ABS and you're in for some serious fun.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tstafford View Post
100% agreed on the principle. Not sure about the 125mph threshold but I get your point..
Well, I don't think the amount of downforce on the 992 GT3 is going to come close to what you get out of a car like your Radical. Even if the 992 GT3 has substantially more downforce than the current version, it will still be in the low to moderate downforce class (where you need to go quite quickly to feel its effect). A formula or sports racer develops enough downforce that its effects are felt at lower speeds (but increases exponentially with speed).

Last edited by GrantG; 05-13-2019 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
Last week I drove a 911R on Road Atlanta alternating with a 991.2 GT3RS. So basically identical cars but with the difference of one being a "downforce" car and the other having "no lift" at best.


Originally Posted by Akunob View Post
You started losing me at "basically identical cars..."
+1
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Quikag View Post
I think half the people here would have more fun bit*h slapping a Miata around the track sideways than taking their GT3 to 60% of its capabilities, but their ego won’t permit them to drive a lesser car.
Blasphemy!!

But true.

Having driving the spec miata (91) and the cup miata (16 & 17) - let's just say that the miata is funner in that you can slip and slide it around in a speed envelope that does not turn you or your car into paste if you get it wrong.
Plus there are lots more miata's to "play" with out there as well.

Another thought I have is that the Miata (Cup Car) on slicks will more readily, and in a more balanced way, slide around, 4 wheel drift, trail brake, etc.. Wheras the Porsche won't tolerate hoonery quite as nice like.

Having driven both - the GT3 is Amazing and it is fun to drive and let's face it - it looks and sounds and drives incredibly. But the Miata is funner to hoon around the track and race in groups for many reasons. A major one being that for me, a bump, a spin, a brake job costs $100's of dollars. Not 10k's of dollars.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GrantG View Post
Well, I don't think the amount of downforce on the 992 GT3 is going to come close to what you get out of a car like your Radical. Even if the 992 GT3 has substantially more downforce than the current version, it will still be in the low to moderate downforce class (where you need to go quite quickly to feel its effect). A formula or sports racer develops enough downforce that its effects are felt at lower speeds (but increases exponentially with speed).
Yes.
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