Let's play name that Speedster ADM...
05-23-2019, 03:46 PM
#91
The problem with exotic Porsches is that there are many wealthy people who want to buy them. I assume that most if not all owners of high end Porsches are rich, but not all are wealthy. So what's the difference between being rich and wealthy? I'll cite the famous philosopher Chris Rock to differentiate the two: "Shaq is rich, but the white man who signs his check is wealthy."
05-23-2019, 07:07 PM
#92
05-23-2019, 07:13 PM
#93
This will play out very similar to the 991R and GT2RS....copy, paste, rinse, repeat.
05-24-2019, 04:51 AM
#95
GT3 player par excellence
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05-25-2019, 07:19 PM
#96
08-14-2019, 02:49 AM
#98
Rennlist Member
Do we have any real indications of “market” yet — not from 918 buyers — but from loyal porsche customers? What kinds of ADM are people ACTUALLY paying (not what are dealers quoting). or still too soon?
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Mattyrae (10-20-2019)
08-14-2019, 06:18 PM
#100
I’m hearing one of my dealers got 150k for my “botched “ allocation and 200k for their other two allocators . Also, apparently some dealerships are still holding onto their allocations to sell the car once it arrives.
08-14-2019, 10:38 PM
#102
Rennlist Member
Pick one of those scenarios and say it will play out like that, not both.
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17bhub (08-15-2019),
Veltracon_Scott (08-14-2019)
08-15-2019, 12:40 AM
#103
Three Wheelin'
I think what he is alluding to is that the ADM will eventually go down. I do not think he meant they are the same. Remember when the 911R first came out the highest "asking" ADM went past a cool million $$$. Like what you said after nearly four years even a poorly spec'd 911R sells way over MSRP.
Let us keep in mind the first batch of 911R was made in 1967. After fifty years PORSCHE revived the 911R. The 1967 and the 2016 911R will be "THE LAST NATURALLY ASPIRATED 911R TO BE MADE." I make that BOLD statement because the next generation 911's are more and more into the "Turbo" engines. 1967 and 2016 911R are both numbered and limited in production numbers. Plus the investment PORSCHE have made for their Battery production line is already into the Billions of $$$. So I am BETTING A LOT OF MONEY, the 1967 and the 2016 911R will be THE LAST 911R "Naturally Aspirated" engine.
991 GT2RS I think they made more than the previous 2011 GT2RS and the 991 GT2RS is not numbered, however somewhat limited in production but still way more than the 2011 GT2RS.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Let us keep in mind the first batch of 911R was made in 1967. After fifty years PORSCHE revived the 911R. The 1967 and the 2016 911R will be "THE LAST NATURALLY ASPIRATED 911R TO BE MADE." I make that BOLD statement because the next generation 911's are more and more into the "Turbo" engines. 1967 and 2016 911R are both numbered and limited in production numbers. Plus the investment PORSCHE have made for their Battery production line is already into the Billions of $$$. So I am BETTING A LOT OF MONEY, the 1967 and the 2016 911R will be THE LAST 911R "Naturally Aspirated" engine.
991 GT2RS I think they made more than the previous 2011 GT2RS and the 991 GT2RS is not numbered, however somewhat limited in production but still way more than the 2011 GT2RS.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
A properly specced (even a poorly specced one for that matter) 911R is still selling a great deal over sticker many years later (yes I know the premiums have come down), non pts GT2RSs are selling under sticker in a year in ... how are those two things the same thing?
Pick one of those scenarios and say it will play out like that, not both.
Pick one of those scenarios and say it will play out like that, not both.
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17bhub (08-15-2019)
08-15-2019, 01:08 AM
#104
Rennlist Member
I understand what he meant, it’s just incorrect to correlate the market history of those two cars, not only retrospectively but also moving forward.
The R market history has been very similar to the one if the 918. It had immense premiums relative to sticker, and in both cases the premium has come down but is still a great deal over msrp.
The 991 2RS was a car heavily gambled on by speculators who were hoping that the R and 997 2RS scenarios would repeat, but that car was not numbered. And Porsche made a lot of them, so its market trajectory is the same as all other GT cars, as in it holds close to msrp at the beginning and then depreciates slowly.
The biggest difference between the two cars is what is likely going to happen moving forward. The R will always be a numbered car and the market for it is likely at its bottom and it will eventually start heading back north again. If I were a long term speculator, which I am not, I would jump on that car right now. As special a car as it is today, the 2RS is an unnumbered car and one of many non NA flappy paddle cars that are super fast that are coming our way, and will likely continue on its natural depreciation curve.
The Speedster is somewhere between the two cars. Numbered but twice as many as the R, and not as special relative to its piers as the R, but much less common and more unique than the 2RS. No one knows how these things play out, variables like 911 fatigue and economic conditions play a huge part in the equation, but all things being equal the Speedster premiums will come down from the hype of the launch but will likely stabilize above msrp, closer the R situation than the 2Rs situation, especially since unlike the R, there isn’t a GT3 Touring cab about to be launched.
At the end of the day if you get one of these cars, be it it the Speedster or the 2RS at msrp you can enjoy it and be fine at resale, if you pay adm you’re rolling the dice. You’ll win some, you’ll lose some, but if you love the cars and can afford them then there will be no regrets, and if you’re in it as a speculator you know the game you’re playing.
The R market history has been very similar to the one if the 918. It had immense premiums relative to sticker, and in both cases the premium has come down but is still a great deal over msrp.
The 991 2RS was a car heavily gambled on by speculators who were hoping that the R and 997 2RS scenarios would repeat, but that car was not numbered. And Porsche made a lot of them, so its market trajectory is the same as all other GT cars, as in it holds close to msrp at the beginning and then depreciates slowly.
The biggest difference between the two cars is what is likely going to happen moving forward. The R will always be a numbered car and the market for it is likely at its bottom and it will eventually start heading back north again. If I were a long term speculator, which I am not, I would jump on that car right now. As special a car as it is today, the 2RS is an unnumbered car and one of many non NA flappy paddle cars that are super fast that are coming our way, and will likely continue on its natural depreciation curve.
The Speedster is somewhere between the two cars. Numbered but twice as many as the R, and not as special relative to its piers as the R, but much less common and more unique than the 2RS. No one knows how these things play out, variables like 911 fatigue and economic conditions play a huge part in the equation, but all things being equal the Speedster premiums will come down from the hype of the launch but will likely stabilize above msrp, closer the R situation than the 2Rs situation, especially since unlike the R, there isn’t a GT3 Touring cab about to be launched.
At the end of the day if you get one of these cars, be it it the Speedster or the 2RS at msrp you can enjoy it and be fine at resale, if you pay adm you’re rolling the dice. You’ll win some, you’ll lose some, but if you love the cars and can afford them then there will be no regrets, and if you’re in it as a speculator you know the game you’re playing.
08-15-2019, 01:51 AM
#105
As GT3RS mentioned, my point is that the ADMs on the Speedster will melt like they did with the R and GT2RS. Since it is a numbered car, chances are that it may still hold a value slightly above MSRP even a few years from now but probably not a 6 figure amount over MSRP. Porsche has gotten smarter and smarter by being increasing the number of a particular limited car that it builds.