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991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R
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First drive in 991 Speedster

 
Old 05-06-2019, 03:52 PM
  #61  
raclaims
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It does look great in GR...let's hope they'll let us do a GR based Heritage edition.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:17 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by raclaims View Post
It does look great in GR...let's hope they'll let us do a GR based Heritage edition.
its wrong I know, heritage is only 1 colour combo
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:48 PM
  #63  
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Subbed because i keep checking
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:55 PM
  #64  
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Greetings from Sardinia, all! Just back to the room, and the embargo on all but driving impressions has been lifted. It's a bit late, and the photos above are some snap shots taken along the day today.

Given the hour, I'm going to take a quick pass at addressing the questions I was able to get answered today, as I understand those answers (more may be yet to come). Answers below are a mixture of my take from press conference, time around the car, and speaking with those involved in the project.

Love to understand any emissions equipment on this car and of course the ITBs

The two go together—ITBs were something that Porsche Motorsport engines for the race cars have used for some time, so always on the radar of Porsche Motorsport for side projects, ideas, etc. The increased emissions requirements > particulate filters & ITBs, as the PFs were required and prompted the move to ITBs, which feature not only more precise fuel metering and more power but more efficiency and thus lower emissions…

Does the tall man fit in this car?

I'm 6'2 and long of torso, and the answer is...yes. I was several clicks up on the fore-aft of the seat adjustment with the LWBS, and had the steering wheel back all the way. There were a lot of different frame types on this trip, and I heard of not one issue with size.

Is the Speedster engine the 992 GT3 engine? I.e., will the GT3 have ITBs?

No, or at least, I wouldn't want to bet on it. What was apparent before I arrived and remains apparent is that it's a logical assumption to make that the ITB/PF setup developed for this car may well be a preview to where they are going. But just as no manufacturer likes to talk about future projects, I've never much liked speculating on it as a member of automotive media. There isn't a lot of upside in my view, and speculating is fraught with the risk of being…wrong. Considered another way, if you look at the power progression of each new GT3 over time, you see an arc. On the other hand, there are new emissions requirements. So, this one is a wait and see, in my view.

What happened to the design features of the concept? Central fuel filler, Talbot mirrors, wheels?

This was dealt with in the press conference. Basic logic is: Concept cars are meant to be a bit dreamy. Consider CGT concept > production CGT; ditto for 918 (or, for that matter, the Gruppe B, first 911 Speedster concept (1980s), Boxster Studie, etc).

Specific answers are:
  • Central fuel filler: Realities of a central filler with such a wide car in the real world (991 vs long-hood 911). Scratches, drips, etc.
  • Talbot mirrors: Sexy...not too useful when it comes to seeing things in them.
  • Wheels: 21-inch wheels were sexy for the concept car, but the car works better on 20s.

Is this the last 991 iteration?

Yes.

Why no PDK?

"We want to work in the car." Idea was an elemental car, and a limited edition…as with the 911R not a track car so much as a road car. So the 6MT was appealing.

Were the Individual Throttle Bodies necessary to compensate for loss of power/response w/particulate filters?

Yes, but also desirable for efficiency (emissions) in their own right. The two systems are paired, with one resulting from the other.

What are the differences between the old-style exhaust (all 997 & 991 GT3/RS/R - headers w/ integrated cats into valved side mufflers into center muffler) vs. the Speedster exhaust w/Otto particulate filter?

The primary difference is the elimination of the side mufflers and the addition of OPFs that now lead into the center muffler. Upside is weight savings vs. 3 mufflers.

What sort of exhaust setup will cars bound for non-OPF markets have?

May vary by market, but North American engines will apparently NOT get OPFs but will get a netting or mesh to replicate the back pressure of the OPFs for other markets. Simply removing the mesh/netting will create a signal the engine management isn't going to like, apparently.

Does Porsche envision designing two different exhaust systems for every car they make going forward?

Yes, although the "different exhaust systems" are limited to the element that replicates the back pressure of the OPFs—at least until such time as OPFs are required in a given market.

How will Porsche redress performance differences? Software?

^ As above.

Will Speedster have the option of an extended range fuel tank (like the GT3/RS models)?

Yes. 64L or 90L.

Will it be possible to retrofit the ITBs to a 991.2 GT3?

No. (Sure, "anything" is possible, but the not practically or reasonably.)

The prototype had no top. We loved it that way. Why not offer this way?

We may or may not get an "official" answer on this. Will report back if so.

My own take on this, for now: How practical is such a car? Would you want to take it on any events? Park it overnight somewhere? Etc.?

Perhaps some other perspective, from what I learned today: The body in white of the 991 Speedster is the reason for its cost...the A-pillars are a very big deal, but there's more to it than that. Various cartridges under the skin make way for the GT3 front end (three radiators with top vent, front suspension, fuel tank) and the GT3 rear end (oil system tank, etc) and then the lack of the cabriolet rear seats/top was utilized to add a significant strengthening structural member under the new top system—which also had to be developed. Now add all that (particularly the A-pillars) to a convertible top + the rear upper panel, and divide by 1,948 cars. My takeaway: They had to choose to develop one top system, and the weight saved by ditching the non-power top the car got isn't much in light of its single motor (for the forward latch) and generally lightweight manual construction. Other elements would have had to be there anyway, whether the large, 22-pound~ "nacelle" panel in carbon or the heavy/strong rollover system from the Cabriolet—which is required.

How hard would it be to un-bolt the soft top and leave it behind? How much weight would that save?

Probably not that hard. They didn't have an exact number, but I've asked and we'll see what we get.

How user friendly is the top to open and close? How much is automated and how much is manual?

Better than 997 Speedster, 987 Boxster Spyder, and 981 Boxster Spyder in my experience. You release the top the same way as with the Cabrio (with the button on the center console), which unlatches the top at the windshield frame and "flips up" the two spring-loaded buttresses and spring-loaded "humps" automatically, then pull the big panel back and up (it's super light), lower the top into its well manually, and then push the big back panel back down into place, pushing down on it firmly to latch it. Felt intuitive enough to me. Putting it up is fine, and logical—though my first try had me seeking for ways to even up the load side-to-side as you raise the main top out of its well. Two people would be nicer, but I think the owner will learn better muscle memory with this. Overall, it's a big improvement over the three "minimalist" tops listed above.

Will I be able to see and/or access the engine under that extended rear bonnet?

No more so than in other 991s.

Can I change my own oil or air filter?

If you can in 991.2 GT3, if should be possible here also.

Will nose lift be available?

Confirm on the configurator to be sure, but sounds like yes.

Will the old exhaust fit, and how much power does that make?

This engine, like other engines, is an air pump—and its ITB and OPF systems are balanced, not to mention the fuel injection pressure change from 200 bar > 250 bar. Mod one of these, and the other(s) will need mods as well to optimize. So this isn't a matter of the OPF simply plugging up the system...or at least, that's been dealt with on the intake side. In the technical presentation, the new ITBs were cited as "two points up on throttle response" and noted for contributing to increased torque, cleanliness, and willingness to rev.

I have more comments on this, but my driving impressions are embargoed until the 15th.

That new exhaust with filter looks pretty heavy…is it?

No, the new system, in thin-wall stainless, is actually 10kg/22lb lighter than the earlier system.

Tell us more about CG height and torsional stiffness.

Speedster sits 2mm higher in front, 5mm higher in rear. CG is going to be lower, but will see if I can get more exact figures. Torsional stiffness is near coupe or effectively identical due to crossmember added to the car. I can't speak to my impressions yet, but the Speedster uses the same spring rates and ARBs as the 991.2 GT3.

Any suspension re-calibration necessary for the softer chassis?

The PASM dampers have been recalibrated and as noted the car sits a smidge higher (though this is probably within tolerance in the real world).

Suspension tuning philosophy vs 991R?

Engine > "An open RS for the road" per the press conference.
Chassis > "A 911R without a roof" per the press conference.

Some other tidbits:

One car, the Racing Yellow example, was "maximum Speedster" with no A/C, no PCM (a RoW car, in other words)
Rear area behind seats offers surprisingly useful cubbies for a good backpack behind each seat, or?
Central "netting" box interesting. More netting on lower interior door panels, like RS.

Colors present:
  • Guards Red
  • Racing Yellow
  • GT Silver (personally felt this was the "in person" winner on the trip)
  • Agate Gray
  • Miami Blue
  • Project roots go back to August 2013
  • Tooling was ready in 2.5 months
  • 991.1 Speedster study was ready in four months, later shelved; 991.1 911R got the green light
  • Windshield was a BIG deal, and required no small amount of work—but the view was it wouldn't be a Speedster without a lower windshield.
  • 1350 kg dry weight
  • 1465 kg wet weight
  • ~50 kg heavier than GT3 Touring

Last edited by stout; 05-06-2019 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:21 PM
  #65  
Alan Smithee
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Thank you very much, Pete! Looking forward to the driving impressions...
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:23 PM
  #66  
JPMD
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Thank you!
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:05 PM
  #67  
CAlexio
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You're in Porto Cervo, my second home! Pics you posted are literally walking distance from my parent's home.. you have some amazing driving roads there to take. If you're allowed, head into the hinterlands, some amazing twisties!

Thanks for the info. Exciting to hear about the itb's excellent throttle response because my humble bet is they will show up on 992 GT3.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:11 PM
  #68  
mooty
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how much overmsrp
who do I pay
where do I sign
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:13 PM
  #69  
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Thanks- Love the pictures.

So jealous
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:14 PM
  #70  
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Thanks Pete
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:27 PM
  #71  
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Good stuff, thanks for sharing
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:36 PM
  #72  
john weires
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Can't thank you enough for the critical information you provided answering a lot of questions. I was pleasantly surprised by the semi automatic top.

One question for me that isn't clear.

If USA cars do not have an OPF, will the horsepower be artificially limited to the same as OPF European models, or will USA have more rated horsepower?
If horsepower is the same how and why did they reduce it for USA cars?
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:15 PM
  #73  
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Thank you stout !
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:26 PM
  #74  
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Thanks stout.

How much additional weight will the mesh contribute compared to current existing cars without mesh/ OPF?
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:30 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Pcar81 View Post
Thanks stout.

How much additional weight will the mesh contribute compared to current existing cars without mesh/ OPF?
Sounds like the exhaust of US cars with mesh will weigh less than current cars’ (they no longer have the heavy side mufflers, if I’ve understood correctly).
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