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First drive in 991 Speedster

 
Old 05-18-2019, 12:38 AM
  #226  
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Originally Posted by PTSGT3 View Post
OT from Speedster but more on the 997 with that setup... model? 3.6? 3.8? 3.9/4.1? Which of their exhaust setups?
Several I've driven were like that, all with the 3.9. Suspect a fair bit of the magic is an exhaust changeup away from a 3.6 or 3.8. The 4.1 sounded great, too, and added more torque than you'd expect from 200cc, but I think I still prefer the 3.9. I think.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:32 AM
  #227  
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Received an allocation for speedster trying to decide between silver heritage no decals or go all black not sure how the back is gonna look with the black gonna be a driver not parked in garage [img]blob:https://rennlist.com/222bb73f-7b04-43cb-9caf-885f34377aa1[/img][img]blob:https://rennlist.com/be939bd0-83ca-478c-a9b3-f873c09155d4[/img]
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:48 PM
  #228  
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“Surprise #4: The Speedster is Quieter than Expected
Going into this, I wondered if the Speedster would be the best sounding “hardcore” Porsche since the Carrera GT—a fair bet for the first roofless GT3. A drive in fellow Rennlister JP’s fantastic Arena Red 993 Speedster a while back only fed into that expectation, as the valley between its nacelles seemed to pipe the air-cooled engine’s noises right into my ear. Fantastic. So it was no small surprise when my co-driver and I both found that the 991 Speedster’s engine noises are collectively quieter than a GT3 or GT3 Touring (let alone an RS or 911R), and the reason for this is more than a matter of the particulate filters—it’s a matter of introducing what is effectively a second firewall and a “box” between the driver’s ears and the engine”

Thanks Pete, having just done 1100 top down miles to Luftgekült 6 and back, I can testify that not having a folded, insulated top behind your head really allows engine and cooling fan spooling music right into your ears. Something I dearly miss in the Cayman and 356 Coupe. It’s the magic that made me addicted to the 356 Speedsters in the ‘70’s and I was thrilled to find out it was even more audibly present in the 911, 964 and 993 variants.

Shame it has been ‘boxed up’ in the new car! But still a beautiful design exercise nonetheless. But... that Clamshell!! Surfs up everybody! 😏
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:59 PM
  #229  
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I was at a wedding this past weekend, and I spent a lot of time talking to a European journalist who drove the Speedster in Sardinia (the groom works in the automotive industry).

He echoed Pete’s comments about throttle response and sound.

He loved the car and said he’d pick it over the forthcoming Ferrari “big brother” - ADM speedster prices will be near the base MSRP of the Ferrari (!)
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:46 PM
  #230  
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At the cost of sounding like a broken record, this does make the 918 Spyder /upcoming 718 Spyder with their fantastic behind your head engine sound, subjectively better aesthetics, and upcoming 4.0 NA engine, not to mention 1/3 price seem like a proverbial "no-brainer".

It's not apples to apples, but it's close enough that it's hard to ignore the obvious.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:11 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by Guest89 View Post
He loved the car and said he’d pick it over the forthcoming Ferrari “big brother” - ADM speedster prices will be near the base MSRP of the Ferrari (!)
Has he seen or driven the new Ferrari? They’ve been keeping a tight lid on it so I wonder how he was able to already choose a favourite.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:00 PM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by Scrappy1972 View Post
Has he seen or driven the new Ferrari? They’ve been keeping a tight lid on it so I wonder how he was able to already choose a favourite.
He's quite a luddite in reality, although his writing strikes a different tone; he is interested in NA manual vs. a Ferrari that delivers vastly more performance at prices that are not dissimilar...
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:39 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
At the cost of sounding like a broken record, this does make the 918 Spyder /upcoming 718 Spyder with their fantastic behind your head engine sound, subjectively better aesthetics, and upcoming 4.0 NA engine, not to mention 1/3 price seem like a proverbial "no-brainer".

It's not apples to apples, but it's close enough that it's hard to ignore the obvious.
It's a no brainer irrespective of any other car, imho.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:45 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
At the cost of sounding like a broken record, this does make the 918 Spyder /upcoming 718 Spyder with their fantastic behind your head engine sound, subjectively better aesthetics, and upcoming 4.0 NA engine, not to mention 1/3 price seem like a proverbial "no-brainer".

It's not apples to apples, but it's close enough that it's hard to ignore the obvious.
id much rather take the 718 spyder.

And if I wanted to do regular track work, I’d add a .2 GT3 to the 718 spyder and still save money!

Last edited by Drifting; 05-21-2019 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:13 AM
  #235  
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Because I said I'd circle back with these, some answers to Rennlisters' questions asked early on that I am not sure were addressed…

Were the Individual Throttle Bodies necessary to compensate for loss of power/response w/particulate filters?
They were not added to compensate for a loss of power with the OPFs; they were added to increase throttle response—which does not necessarily lead to more peak power, but it does yield better partial throttle behaviour. The ITBs create a more turbulent intake charge, as well, which improves burn efficiency (and therefore emissions). So they serve a dual purpose.

Does Porsche envision designing two different exhaust systems for every car they make going forward?
No. Speedster will get the same lightweight exhaust for all markets.

How will Porsche redress HP/PS performance differences between OPF and non-OPF cars? Software?
U.S. cars will come with a substitute in place of the filter. U.S. cars will not be more powerful if the substitute is taken out—the engine is set up for the amount of back pressure with the new system. An OPF is not a hp killer; that’s a common misconception.

Is the Speedster engine the 992 GT3 engine—will the next GT3 have ITBs?
"No, we will use a miniature version of starship enterprises warp drives on 992 GT3."

When will Porsche release the 982 Boxster Spyder?
Soon.

Why no PDK in the Speedster?
Speedster is a "purist's car," so it will have as many man/machine interfaces as possible. Also, Porsche Motorsport wanted to make the car as light as possible, noting this as a "Speedster typical characteristic and virtue."

One Speedster concept/prototype had no top at all, which we loved. Why not offer this way?
Porsche wanted the car to be used "rather than held back in the garage because an owner might run into rain." Those who want to remove the top system can certainly do so.


How hard would it be to un-bolt the soft top and leave it behind? How much weight would that save?
"Shouldn’t be too hard to have the top taken out." The numbers are:
32 kg (70.6 lb) for the top, 8 kg (17.6 lb) for the kinematics of the lid, 6 kg (13.2 lb) for all "carpentry and foams in the roof lid." Apparently, the factory roll-over protection—which is shared with the 991 Cabriolet—is 18 kg (39.7 lb). Fwiw, you wouldn't see me deleting that.

Suspension tuning philosophy vs 911R?
"Tuning for furthermore enhanced agility, similar to 911R."


Any suspension re-calibration necessary for the softer chassis?
"Soft is the wrong expression, damping characteristics on compression and rebound are more tuned to street use than track use." Spring rates are the same as in GT3."
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:42 AM
  #236  
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Excellent Stout!

How hard would it be to un-bolt the soft top and leave it behind? How much weight would that save?
"Shouldn’t be too hard to have the top taken out." The numbers are:
32 kg (70.6 lb) for the top, 8 kg (17.6 lb) for the kinematics of the lid, 6 kg (13.2 lb) for all "carpentry and foams in the roof lid." Apparently, the factory roll-over protection—which is shared with the 991 Cabriolet—is 18 kg (39.7 lb). Fwiw, you wouldn't see me deleting that.

Deleting the glass side windows would also save a fair bit of weight. FYI, if you did delete the roll over protection, you would probably get an airbag code. At least that is true on Lambos.
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:22 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
At the cost of sounding like a broken record, this does make the 918 Spyder /upcoming 718 Spyder with their fantastic behind your head engine sound, subjectively better aesthetics, and upcoming 4.0 NA engine, not to mention 1/3 price seem like a proverbial "no-brainer".

It's not apples to apples, but it's close enough that it's hard to ignore the obvious.
^^^Yep.
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:23 AM
  #238  
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I owned a 981 spyder and man, the sound track on it, top up or down bested a gt4 quite a bit. Interestingly enough i rented a 911 gts cab this week. With the top down it is DEAD quiet. With top up it sounds decent. I've never owned a 911 convertible. Seems like the rear engine with a soft top between you and engine vs a mid-engine with engine directly behind you makes a big diff. Granted, it's a 911 GTS vs a speedster. But even the base boxster doesn't seem to have the sound blanket insulation effect that the rear engines 911s do?

Pete, did u drive it with top up by chance? If so, any better sound track? Not like that helps anything: who buys a speedster to drive with top up?!!!
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:14 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by stout View Post
Does Porsche envision designing two different exhaust systems for every car they make going forward?
No. Speedster will get the same lightweight exhaust for all markets.

How will Porsche redress HP/PS performance differences between OPF and non-OPF cars? Software?
U.S. cars will come with a substitute in place of the filter. U.S. cars will not be more powerful if the substitute is taken out—the engine is set up for the amount of back pressure with the new system. An OPF is not a hp killer; that’s a common misconception.
Pete these were mine (as I recall, at least)

On the first question, I meant to convey an emphasis on the "going forward" part; i.e., my question is will Porsche make exhausts for Europe/OPF countries as well as different exhausts for the rest of the world, or will they do what they did on the Speedster for every future vehicle?

Another journalist (I don't think he was on your wave, but you almost certainly know him) told me that the car sounded "quite bad" at a wedding last weekend, which is rather disappointing.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:14 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by JPP View Post
Thanks Pete, having just done 1100 top down miles to Luftgekült 6 and back, I can testify that not having a folded, insulated top behind your head really allows engine and cooling fan spooling music right into your ears. Something I dearly miss in the Cayman and 356 Coupe. It’s the magic that made me addicted to the 356 Speedsters in the ‘70’s and I was thrilled to find out it was even more audibly present in the 911, 964 and 993 variants.

Shame it has been ‘boxed up’ in the new car! But still a beautiful design exercise nonetheless. But... that Clamshell!! Surfs up everybody! 😏
Geometries and contours matter, and your 993 remains the best-sounding 993 I have tried....only contender is one with an Eaton spinning out back.

Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
At the cost of sounding like a broken record, this does make the 918 Spyder /upcoming 718 Spyder with their fantastic behind your head engine sound, subjectively better aesthetics, and upcoming 4.0 NA engine, not to mention 1/3 price seem like a proverbial "no-brainer".

It's not apples to apples, but it's close enough that it's hard to ignore the obvious.
While final engine remains to be seen, you are not crazy—and your post reminds me: While Boxster also bury their flat sixes under soft tops, they not only have engines closer but a couple of holes poked in the sides of the body, just aft of the doors. There have been a lot of great-sounding Boxsters as a result…stretching all the way back to the original 2.5.

Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Excellent Stout!

Deleting the glass side windows would also save a fair bit of weight. FYI, if you did delete the roll over protection, you would probably get an airbag code. At least that is true on Lambos.
You are a glutton. I love it!

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9 View Post
I owned a 981 spyder and man, the sound track on it, top up or down bested a gt4 quite a bit.
Another prod of the memory banks. My co-driver on the Speedster trip was on the North American trip for the 981 Boxster Spyder (there are many funny stories about that trip…), and as we were trying to check ourselves on our observations of the Speedster's noises, we thought back to the 981 Spyder in Hawaii—and I distinctly remember thinking "How can a car this loud be legal??" in the 981 Spyder. Never thought that once in the 991 Speedster. YMMV...

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9 View Post
Interestingly enough i rented a 911 gts cab this week. With the top down it is DEAD quiet. With top up it sounds decent. I've never owned a 911 convertible. Seems like the rear engine with a soft top between you and engine vs a mid-engine with engine directly behind you makes a big diff. Granted, it's a 911 GTS vs a speedster. But even the base boxster doesn't seem to have the sound blanket insulation effect that the rear engines 911s do?
Another memory jogged, this time of a guy here on Rennlist who always panned the 991.2 Carrera...and now I remember that he was into 991 Cabrios. Maybe they need all the auditory help they can get? But I don't remember being bugged by how quiet 996 and 997 Cabrios were...maybe we've all been ruined by the 997.1 GT3 and so many loud Porsches since? Remember that Boxsters have port holes to either side, and put them to very good use.

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9 View Post
Pete, did u drive it with top up by chance? If so, any better sound track? Not like that helps anything: who buys a speedster to drive with top up?!!!
We did, mainly out of curiosity/duty. Soundtrack wasn't better per se—that chamber behind the seats is very well sealed. So it wasn't down for long. Maybe 15-25 minutes of the day? The car wasn't as compelling as an experience with the top up, but I will say the top was uneventful—which is exactly what you want from a convertible top. Nicely sealed, quiet, etc.

Originally Posted by Guest89 View Post
Pete these were mine (as I recall, at least)

On the first question, I meant to convey an emphasis on the "going forward" part; i.e., my question is will Porsche make exhausts for Europe/OPF countries as well as different exhausts for the rest of the world, or will they do what they did on the Speedster for every future vehicle?

Another journalist (I don't think he was on your wave, but you almost certainly know him) told me that the car sounded "quite bad" at a wedding last weekend, which is rather disappointing.
They don't love to talk future product, and I have to admit that I've never made it my "thing" because I have watched so many get it wrong. Things change, sometimes later than you think they can or even could, and I find myself challenged enough in paying attention to what's in front of me on these things. You get one shot—usually on one day—to pull useful impressions for your readers/viewers.

Would have to disagree with that journalist on the sound. It may be quieter than a 911R or a GT3 Touring, but it's still a flat six back there, and a buttery one with an edge that happily races its way towards the big 9 on the tach. Been thinking about this a fair bit, and do think something fundamental changed with the 997.1 GT3. I remember listening to the US press car as JvO punted it around Sears Point years ago for an Excellence test back to back with a 996 GT3, and the difference was stunning. One sounded like a race car, and it wasn't the 996. From there forward, we moved away from Porsches tuned for the driver's enjoyment to Porsche's tuned for everyone's enjoyment. I like them, too, but our sense of "loud" and "quiet" when it comes to 911s seems a bit skewed these days. Speedster may disappoint those who are expecting a 911R/GT3T soundtrack, and I think it is quieter than the 981 Boxster Spyder, but I certainly thought about what the car behind me must be thinking every time I opened the thing up to make a pass. Quiet? No. Quite bad? Not sure I share that opinion...but would love to spend some time with a Speedster back to back with some other benchmarks.
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