Ohlins TTX on Touring GT3?
04-29-2019, 12:01 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Ohlins TTX are some of the best shocks made.
It's all in the setup.
As they say, a bad plumber blames his tools.
Now, to get optimal use you must adjust for every track (I have notes on clicks from closed for mine)
But, I would not put these on a car that won't see the track. The latest porsche chassis calibration is quite good. Very good actually, and would require a lot of development to make an aftermarket set be better overall for the road.
It's all in the setup.
As they say, a bad plumber blames his tools.
Now, to get optimal use you must adjust for every track (I have notes on clicks from closed for mine)
But, I would not put these on a car that won't see the track. The latest porsche chassis calibration is quite good. Very good actually, and would require a lot of development to make an aftermarket set be better overall for the road.
04-29-2019, 01:33 PM
#17
Race Director
Seth nailed it. Value of high-performance suspensions, is the ability to adjust each primary input independently. That actually makes for a much more complex set up. Most people that are driving on the road, something like a Touring with the OP, do much better with the regular shocks set to factory settings, maybe making small camber adjustments at most.
The DSC module allows range increase, it's a fantastic easy/plugnplay, but it does allow you to go into the guts of the electronic adjustments and set it up as you wish also.
The DSC module allows range increase, it's a fantastic easy/plugnplay, but it does allow you to go into the guts of the electronic adjustments and set it up as you wish also.
04-29-2019, 03:26 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Yes there might be the need to adjust between every track for optimal use but I have found that most tracks in North America aren't that different from a good baseline setup. Maybe a click or two in one direction gets the desired results. But keeping notes on this is key with the car.
04-29-2019, 06:50 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Yes there might be the need to adjust between every track for optimal use but I have found that most tracks in North America aren't that different from a good baseline setup. Maybe a click or two in one direction gets the desired results. But keeping notes on this is key with the car.
04-30-2019, 12:27 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Bam! Spot on. One key with this if you want to really fine tune the shocks is to take those notes back to the manufacturer and tell them the clicks you are using with the shocks. They can then rebuild them where the range of 15 clicks (or how ever many clicks they have for said adjustment) are equal to your current range of clicks. So your 4 click range now becomes 15 clicks in that same range and you have a more fine tuned suspension. I do recommend talking to your shop or engineer about doing this
04-30-2019, 11:55 AM
#22
If you find a shop that specializes in online and has experience with the 991 platform, by all means. Ttx is awesome. But a properly set kw v1 by someone who knows their stuff will probably ride much better than a badly setup ttx.
04-30-2019, 04:01 PM
#23
I wouldn't do it.
High quality shocks are amazing, and high quality adjustable shocks even more so. Porsche's dampers are already pretty high quality, however, and for the street you really want shocks you don't adjust.
As a tuning tool shocks are much more powerful than most realize. A car with a rear that will snap out viciously under power can be transformed into a power-sliding pussycat with a few clicks of rear bump and rebound. I was shocked when I first learned this, then even more shocked when these same changes made the car spin like a top on the second move of a slalom just a few turns later.
Since that introduction nearly two decades ago I've been playing with adjustable shocks off and on, and certainly prefer them on competition cars. The ability to tune a car's attitude for a specific track or corner is a very powerful tool, and there is no question it lets you find time. Unfortunately most of that time is by definition highly specific to the particular course or conditions. Example- a friend of mine has top quality adjustable shocks on his .2 GT3 RS. He's won multiple national events with the car, including top honors at the PCA Parade autocross twice, so he's got it very dialed in. Unfortunately when he took it to a different SCCA course he found it too stiff for the bumps there, and he ended slower because he was unable to re-tune in the limited number of runs available.
In many ways the street is the opposite of the track- you don't want great in any one corner but rather something at least good in every condition you'll encounter. Wet, bumpy, off camber, etc. It's exceedingly difficult to test and tune for every one of those conditions because many of them are unnatural. Example: I put nearly 100k miles on a stock MkV VW R-32. It's a front biased 4wd car that could reliably be depended on to under-steer, and it was so planted and predictable in tough conditions that I managed a 3rd overall on my first and only (very wet) SCCA autocross in the car (and this was a stock car on street tires as part of a ~100 car field of modified cars including hard core racers on hoosier wets, etc). Then one day cruising at 75 mph on a bone dry road I needed to perform an emergency lane change with zero warning. It was by necessity violent, and the car did everything it possibly could to swap ends and put me into a barrier. The point being that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the suspension for every situation, and running around on the street with a setup optimized for the track will almost certainly reduce margin when you do encounter something outside of the range you tuned for. But you know who's really good at optimizing for every one of those potential situations? Who can play with vehicle dynamics in a simulation environment and then test it in all conditions from the arctic circle to the 'Ring to a slippery hot-tar road in Dubai? The factory.
For a street car I'll take a fresh, modern Porsche factory shock over virtually any aftermarket setup. Yes it gives something up in stiction, low speed damping, etc vs top end race shocks, but in return it comes with what I'd argue is the best setup for the broad set of conditions encountered on the street. Meanwhile the best aftermarket systems gain in focus, mainly optimizing for one particular thing by sacrificing others. If you're willing to sacrifice some of that breadth then it can be a good trade, also for older cars or those with less sophisticated dampers from new. It's a trade I'll willingly make for a track or competition car, but personally I wouldn't do it for a Touring used on the street. That's price independent. If I did go there I'd carefully shock dyno the stock setup and essentially try to match it everywhere except for very low speed damping, where the aftermarket setup will operate effectively in a range the factory hardware can't. I'd likely keep the ratios unchanged in that region, however.
$.02
High quality shocks are amazing, and high quality adjustable shocks even more so. Porsche's dampers are already pretty high quality, however, and for the street you really want shocks you don't adjust.
As a tuning tool shocks are much more powerful than most realize. A car with a rear that will snap out viciously under power can be transformed into a power-sliding pussycat with a few clicks of rear bump and rebound. I was shocked when I first learned this, then even more shocked when these same changes made the car spin like a top on the second move of a slalom just a few turns later.
Since that introduction nearly two decades ago I've been playing with adjustable shocks off and on, and certainly prefer them on competition cars. The ability to tune a car's attitude for a specific track or corner is a very powerful tool, and there is no question it lets you find time. Unfortunately most of that time is by definition highly specific to the particular course or conditions. Example- a friend of mine has top quality adjustable shocks on his .2 GT3 RS. He's won multiple national events with the car, including top honors at the PCA Parade autocross twice, so he's got it very dialed in. Unfortunately when he took it to a different SCCA course he found it too stiff for the bumps there, and he ended slower because he was unable to re-tune in the limited number of runs available.
In many ways the street is the opposite of the track- you don't want great in any one corner but rather something at least good in every condition you'll encounter. Wet, bumpy, off camber, etc. It's exceedingly difficult to test and tune for every one of those conditions because many of them are unnatural. Example: I put nearly 100k miles on a stock MkV VW R-32. It's a front biased 4wd car that could reliably be depended on to under-steer, and it was so planted and predictable in tough conditions that I managed a 3rd overall on my first and only (very wet) SCCA autocross in the car (and this was a stock car on street tires as part of a ~100 car field of modified cars including hard core racers on hoosier wets, etc). Then one day cruising at 75 mph on a bone dry road I needed to perform an emergency lane change with zero warning. It was by necessity violent, and the car did everything it possibly could to swap ends and put me into a barrier. The point being that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the suspension for every situation, and running around on the street with a setup optimized for the track will almost certainly reduce margin when you do encounter something outside of the range you tuned for. But you know who's really good at optimizing for every one of those potential situations? Who can play with vehicle dynamics in a simulation environment and then test it in all conditions from the arctic circle to the 'Ring to a slippery hot-tar road in Dubai? The factory.
For a street car I'll take a fresh, modern Porsche factory shock over virtually any aftermarket setup. Yes it gives something up in stiction, low speed damping, etc vs top end race shocks, but in return it comes with what I'd argue is the best setup for the broad set of conditions encountered on the street. Meanwhile the best aftermarket systems gain in focus, mainly optimizing for one particular thing by sacrificing others. If you're willing to sacrifice some of that breadth then it can be a good trade, also for older cars or those with less sophisticated dampers from new. It's a trade I'll willingly make for a track or competition car, but personally I wouldn't do it for a Touring used on the street. That's price independent. If I did go there I'd carefully shock dyno the stock setup and essentially try to match it everywhere except for very low speed damping, where the aftermarket setup will operate effectively in a range the factory hardware can't. I'd likely keep the ratios unchanged in that region, however.
$.02
Last edited by Petevb; 05-01-2019 at 02:50 AM.
04-30-2019, 05:47 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Bam! Spot on. One key with this if you want to really fine tune the shocks is to take those notes back to the manufacturer and tell them the clicks you are using with the shocks. They can then rebuild them where the range of 15 clicks (or how ever many clicks they have for said adjustment) are equal to your current range of clicks. So your 4 click range now becomes 15 clicks in that same range and you have a more fine tuned suspension. I do recommend talking to your shop or engineer about doing this
04-30-2019, 05:52 PM
#25
Race Car
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Posts: 4,437
Received 421 Likes
on
249 Posts
I wouldn't do it.
High quality shocks are amazing, and high quality adjustable shocks even more so. Porsche's dampers are already pretty high quality, however, and for the street you really want shocks you don't adjust.
As a tuning tool shocks are much more powerful than most realize. A car with a rear that will snap out viciously under power can be transformed into a power-sliding pussycat with a few clicks of rear bump and rebound. I was shocked when I first learned this, then even more shocked when these same changes made the car spin like a top on the second move of a slalom just a few turns later.
Since that introduction nearly two decades ago I've been playing with adjustable shocks off and on, and certainly prefer them on competition cars. The ability to tune a car's attitude for a specific track or corner is a very powerful tool, and there is no question it lets you find time. Unfortunately most of that time is by definition highly specific to the particular course or conditions. Example- a friend of mine has top quality adjustable shocks on his .2 GT3 RS. He's won multiple national events with the car, including top honors at the PCA Parade autocross twice, so he's got it very dialed in. Unfortunately when he took it to a different SCCA course he found it too stiff for the bumps there, and he ended slower because he was unable to re-tune in the limited number of runs available.
In many ways the street is the opposite of the track- you don't want great in any one corner but rather something at least good in every condition you'll encounter. Wet, bumpy, off camber, etc. It's exceedingly difficult to test and tune for every one of those conditions because many of them are unnatural. Example: I put nearly 100k miles on a stock MkV VW R-32. It's a front biased 4wd car that could reliably be depended on to under-steer, and it was so planted and predictable in tough conditions that I managed a 3rd overall on one wet SCCA autocross (vs modified cars with hoosier wets on, etc). Then one day cruising at 75 mph on a bone dry road I needed to perform an emergency lane change with zero warning. It was by necessity violent, and the car did everything it possibly could to swap ends and put me into a barrier. The point being that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the suspension for every situation, and running around on the street with a tune optimized for the track will almost certainly reduce margin when you do encounter something unusual. But you know who's really good at optimizing for every one of those potential situations? Who can play with vehicle dynamics in a simulation environment and then test it in all conditions from the arctic circle to the 'Ring to a slippery hot-tar road in Dubai? That would be the factory...
For a street car I'll take a fresh, modern Porsche factory shock over virtually any aftermarket setup. Yes it gives something up in stiction, low speed damping, etc vs top end race shocks, but in return it comes with what I'd argue is the best setup for the broad set of conditions encountered on the street. Meanwhile the best aftermarket systems gain in focus, mainly be optimizing one particular thing by sacrificing others. If you're willing to sacrifice some of that breadth then it can be a good trade, also for older cars or those with less sophisticated dampers from the factory. It's a trade I'll willingly make for a track or competition car, but personally I wouldn't do it for a Touring used on the street. That's price independent. If I did go there I'd carefully shock dyno the stock setup and essentially try to match it everywhere except for very low speed damping, where the aftermarket setup will be operate in a range the factory can't achieve. I'd likely keep the ratios unchanged in that region, however.
$.02
High quality shocks are amazing, and high quality adjustable shocks even more so. Porsche's dampers are already pretty high quality, however, and for the street you really want shocks you don't adjust.
As a tuning tool shocks are much more powerful than most realize. A car with a rear that will snap out viciously under power can be transformed into a power-sliding pussycat with a few clicks of rear bump and rebound. I was shocked when I first learned this, then even more shocked when these same changes made the car spin like a top on the second move of a slalom just a few turns later.
Since that introduction nearly two decades ago I've been playing with adjustable shocks off and on, and certainly prefer them on competition cars. The ability to tune a car's attitude for a specific track or corner is a very powerful tool, and there is no question it lets you find time. Unfortunately most of that time is by definition highly specific to the particular course or conditions. Example- a friend of mine has top quality adjustable shocks on his .2 GT3 RS. He's won multiple national events with the car, including top honors at the PCA Parade autocross twice, so he's got it very dialed in. Unfortunately when he took it to a different SCCA course he found it too stiff for the bumps there, and he ended slower because he was unable to re-tune in the limited number of runs available.
In many ways the street is the opposite of the track- you don't want great in any one corner but rather something at least good in every condition you'll encounter. Wet, bumpy, off camber, etc. It's exceedingly difficult to test and tune for every one of those conditions because many of them are unnatural. Example: I put nearly 100k miles on a stock MkV VW R-32. It's a front biased 4wd car that could reliably be depended on to under-steer, and it was so planted and predictable in tough conditions that I managed a 3rd overall on one wet SCCA autocross (vs modified cars with hoosier wets on, etc). Then one day cruising at 75 mph on a bone dry road I needed to perform an emergency lane change with zero warning. It was by necessity violent, and the car did everything it possibly could to swap ends and put me into a barrier. The point being that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the suspension for every situation, and running around on the street with a tune optimized for the track will almost certainly reduce margin when you do encounter something unusual. But you know who's really good at optimizing for every one of those potential situations? Who can play with vehicle dynamics in a simulation environment and then test it in all conditions from the arctic circle to the 'Ring to a slippery hot-tar road in Dubai? That would be the factory...
For a street car I'll take a fresh, modern Porsche factory shock over virtually any aftermarket setup. Yes it gives something up in stiction, low speed damping, etc vs top end race shocks, but in return it comes with what I'd argue is the best setup for the broad set of conditions encountered on the street. Meanwhile the best aftermarket systems gain in focus, mainly be optimizing one particular thing by sacrificing others. If you're willing to sacrifice some of that breadth then it can be a good trade, also for older cars or those with less sophisticated dampers from the factory. It's a trade I'll willingly make for a track or competition car, but personally I wouldn't do it for a Touring used on the street. That's price independent. If I did go there I'd carefully shock dyno the stock setup and essentially try to match it everywhere except for very low speed damping, where the aftermarket setup will be operate in a range the factory can't achieve. I'd likely keep the ratios unchanged in that region, however.
$.02
^Very informative and helpful Thanks
eventhough now i am very interested in making my touring "transformed into a power-sliding pussycat"
04-30-2019, 09:08 PM
#26
Race Director
I wouldn't do it.
High quality shocks are amazing, and high quality adjustable shocks even more so. Porsche's dampers are already pretty high quality, however, and for the street you really want shocks you don't adjust.
As a tuning tool shocks are much more powerful than most realize. A car with a rear that will snap out viciously under power can be transformed into a power-sliding pussycat with a few clicks of rear bump and rebound. I was shocked when I first learned this, then even more shocked when these same changes made the car spin like a top on the second move of a slalom just a few turns later.
Since that introduction nearly two decades ago I've been playing with adjustable shocks off and on, and certainly prefer them on competition cars. The ability to tune a car's attitude for a specific track or corner is a very powerful tool, and there is no question it lets you find time. Unfortunately most of that time is by definition highly specific to the particular course or conditions. Example- a friend of mine has top quality adjustable shocks on his .2 GT3 RS. He's won multiple national events with the car, including top honors at the PCA Parade autocross twice, so he's got it very dialed in. Unfortunately when he took it to a different SCCA course he found it too stiff for the bumps there, and he ended slower because he was unable to re-tune in the limited number of runs available.
In many ways the street is the opposite of the track- you don't want great in any one corner but rather something at least good in every condition you'll encounter. Wet, bumpy, off camber, etc. It's exceedingly difficult to test and tune for every one of those conditions because many of them are unnatural. Example: I put nearly 100k miles on a stock MkV VW R-32. It's a front biased 4wd car that could reliably be depended on to under-steer, and it was so planted and predictable in tough conditions that I managed a 3rd overall on my first and only (very wet) SCCA autocross in the car (and this was a stock car on street tires as part of a ~100 car field of modified cars including hard core racers on hoosier wets, etc). Then one day cruising at 75 mph on a bone dry road I needed to perform an emergency lane change with zero warning. It was by necessity violent, and the car did everything it possibly could to swap ends and put me into a barrier. The point being that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the suspension for every situation, and running around on the street with a tune optimized for the track will almost certainly reduce margin when you do encounter something unusual. But you know who's really good at optimizing for every one of those potential situations? Who can play with vehicle dynamics in a simulation environment and then test it in all conditions from the arctic circle to the 'Ring to a slippery hot-tar road in Dubai? That would be the factory...
For a street car I'll take a fresh, modern Porsche factory shock over virtually any aftermarket setup. Yes it gives something up in stiction, low speed damping, etc vs top end race shocks, but in return it comes with what I'd argue is the best setup for the broad set of conditions encountered on the street. Meanwhile the best aftermarket systems gain in focus, mainly optimizing for one particular thing by sacrificing others. If you're willing to sacrifice some of that breadth then it can be a good trade, also for older cars or those with less sophisticated dampers from the factory. It's a trade I'll willingly make for a track or competition car, but personally I wouldn't do it for a Touring used on the street. That's price independent. If I did go there I'd carefully shock dyno the stock setup and essentially try to match it everywhere except for very low speed damping, where the aftermarket setup will be operate in a range the factory can't achieve. I'd likely keep the ratios unchanged in that region, however.
$.02
High quality shocks are amazing, and high quality adjustable shocks even more so. Porsche's dampers are already pretty high quality, however, and for the street you really want shocks you don't adjust.
As a tuning tool shocks are much more powerful than most realize. A car with a rear that will snap out viciously under power can be transformed into a power-sliding pussycat with a few clicks of rear bump and rebound. I was shocked when I first learned this, then even more shocked when these same changes made the car spin like a top on the second move of a slalom just a few turns later.
Since that introduction nearly two decades ago I've been playing with adjustable shocks off and on, and certainly prefer them on competition cars. The ability to tune a car's attitude for a specific track or corner is a very powerful tool, and there is no question it lets you find time. Unfortunately most of that time is by definition highly specific to the particular course or conditions. Example- a friend of mine has top quality adjustable shocks on his .2 GT3 RS. He's won multiple national events with the car, including top honors at the PCA Parade autocross twice, so he's got it very dialed in. Unfortunately when he took it to a different SCCA course he found it too stiff for the bumps there, and he ended slower because he was unable to re-tune in the limited number of runs available.
In many ways the street is the opposite of the track- you don't want great in any one corner but rather something at least good in every condition you'll encounter. Wet, bumpy, off camber, etc. It's exceedingly difficult to test and tune for every one of those conditions because many of them are unnatural. Example: I put nearly 100k miles on a stock MkV VW R-32. It's a front biased 4wd car that could reliably be depended on to under-steer, and it was so planted and predictable in tough conditions that I managed a 3rd overall on my first and only (very wet) SCCA autocross in the car (and this was a stock car on street tires as part of a ~100 car field of modified cars including hard core racers on hoosier wets, etc). Then one day cruising at 75 mph on a bone dry road I needed to perform an emergency lane change with zero warning. It was by necessity violent, and the car did everything it possibly could to swap ends and put me into a barrier. The point being that it's exceedingly difficult to tune the suspension for every situation, and running around on the street with a tune optimized for the track will almost certainly reduce margin when you do encounter something unusual. But you know who's really good at optimizing for every one of those potential situations? Who can play with vehicle dynamics in a simulation environment and then test it in all conditions from the arctic circle to the 'Ring to a slippery hot-tar road in Dubai? That would be the factory...
For a street car I'll take a fresh, modern Porsche factory shock over virtually any aftermarket setup. Yes it gives something up in stiction, low speed damping, etc vs top end race shocks, but in return it comes with what I'd argue is the best setup for the broad set of conditions encountered on the street. Meanwhile the best aftermarket systems gain in focus, mainly optimizing for one particular thing by sacrificing others. If you're willing to sacrifice some of that breadth then it can be a good trade, also for older cars or those with less sophisticated dampers from the factory. It's a trade I'll willingly make for a track or competition car, but personally I wouldn't do it for a Touring used on the street. That's price independent. If I did go there I'd carefully shock dyno the stock setup and essentially try to match it everywhere except for very low speed damping, where the aftermarket setup will be operate in a range the factory can't achieve. I'd likely keep the ratios unchanged in that region, however.
$.02
Last edited by CAlexio; 05-01-2019 at 03:32 AM.
05-01-2019, 01:34 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
Got my TTX directly from PSI. I'm still within ~3 clicks from the original "baseline" setup, which is for stock Cup2 tires. For Trofeo-R or Pirelli DH takeoffs, the chassis needed a little stiffer compression IMO. In my experience, the ride quality hasn't suffered much, and the trade-off for track performance is well worth it. I agree with Seth mostly, but it doesn't take rocket science, just a little research and track time to learn how to dial in some shocks to your liking. The problem with a lot of people is they don't even know their own setup preferences. If you do, it's a lot easier to dial in what you want, as opposed to what you "think" you need. I'm a monotube guy, but these TTX are something else, it's like if aliens made a twin-tube racing shock. Definitely not your grandpa's old-school TC Kline twin-tube Koni…..ahh, the good ole-days of shock fade and riding bump stops.
Regardless, I have them on my 991.2 GT3, and I can tell you this, the transformation is pretty remarkable on track. The way it controls an 1157# rear spring is unreal, even on the street. It's barely stiffer than stock, and proof that it's the right choice is evidenced by the fact that even Porsche went with similar spring rates for the RS on their Bilsteins. For reference, Andy Pilgrim drove a factory prepared stock .2 GT3 at NCM turning some 2:13.XX laps last year (the same day he drove the GT2RS to record laps), and I went ~2 seconds faster on the same exact tires, with nothing else than a set of TTX and proper alignment, in very similar track conditions right around the same time. Am I a better driver than Andy? Of course not. I'm competent, maybe even quick, but that difference in pace isn't because I'm some shoe....I attribute it to good setup, and TTX. Prob 50% alignment, 50% TTX, to be honest. The shocks don't just create lap time, they simply give you confidence and control to enable them. It's still up to you to create it, unlike HP, which you just mash the loud pedal.
I think Ohlins (and some of their Euro tuners like Worx) has focused more on providing setups and tuning on their new packages, so that the baseline setups are pretty good. Honestly, if you are buying TTX's, then you (or your shop) honestly should have enough knowledge to even know why you want them. I think Ohlins expects this also, and probably rightly so. The stock shocks are good, which is why they aren't even offering DFV anymore for 991 GT3's, TTX is the next step up from stiffer springs on stock shocks.
Ohlins also have some new DFV packages called "Dedicated" coming out later this year and next year, which will be track focused, with high spring rates, properly valved, and track/shaker rig tested for popular cars like M3's, miatas, Porsches, etc. etc. They also have some DFV style double adjustable monotubes coming out in the near future for cars like miatas, and other popular track cars, that will slot in between single adjustable DFV and TTX. Had a good convo with them at PRI about all this.
All that said, for a Touring which probably sees a ton more street time, then not worth it. The stock setup on Bilsteins is amazing in it's own right. Whatever is the primary use should be the focus for the suspension, and the stock setup seems to be able to do it all, and well.
OP: 10K is WAY to high for TTX. Call PSI and they will get you a set for well under that......just sayin.
Regardless, I have them on my 991.2 GT3, and I can tell you this, the transformation is pretty remarkable on track. The way it controls an 1157# rear spring is unreal, even on the street. It's barely stiffer than stock, and proof that it's the right choice is evidenced by the fact that even Porsche went with similar spring rates for the RS on their Bilsteins. For reference, Andy Pilgrim drove a factory prepared stock .2 GT3 at NCM turning some 2:13.XX laps last year (the same day he drove the GT2RS to record laps), and I went ~2 seconds faster on the same exact tires, with nothing else than a set of TTX and proper alignment, in very similar track conditions right around the same time. Am I a better driver than Andy? Of course not. I'm competent, maybe even quick, but that difference in pace isn't because I'm some shoe....I attribute it to good setup, and TTX. Prob 50% alignment, 50% TTX, to be honest. The shocks don't just create lap time, they simply give you confidence and control to enable them. It's still up to you to create it, unlike HP, which you just mash the loud pedal.
I think Ohlins (and some of their Euro tuners like Worx) has focused more on providing setups and tuning on their new packages, so that the baseline setups are pretty good. Honestly, if you are buying TTX's, then you (or your shop) honestly should have enough knowledge to even know why you want them. I think Ohlins expects this also, and probably rightly so. The stock shocks are good, which is why they aren't even offering DFV anymore for 991 GT3's, TTX is the next step up from stiffer springs on stock shocks.
Ohlins also have some new DFV packages called "Dedicated" coming out later this year and next year, which will be track focused, with high spring rates, properly valved, and track/shaker rig tested for popular cars like M3's, miatas, Porsches, etc. etc. They also have some DFV style double adjustable monotubes coming out in the near future for cars like miatas, and other popular track cars, that will slot in between single adjustable DFV and TTX. Had a good convo with them at PRI about all this.
All that said, for a Touring which probably sees a ton more street time, then not worth it. The stock setup on Bilsteins is amazing in it's own right. Whatever is the primary use should be the focus for the suspension, and the stock setup seems to be able to do it all, and well.
OP: 10K is WAY to high for TTX. Call PSI and they will get you a set for well under that......just sayin.
05-02-2019, 12:37 AM
#28
Race Car
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Posts: 4,437
Received 421 Likes
on
249 Posts
Got my TTX directly from PSI. I'm still within ~3 clicks from the original "baseline" setup, which is for stock Cup2 tires. For Trofeo-R or Pirelli DH takeoffs, the chassis needed a little stiffer compression IMO. In my experience, the ride quality hasn't suffered much, and the trade-off for track performance is well worth it. I agree with Seth mostly, but it doesn't take rocket science, just a little research and track time to learn how to dial in some shocks to your liking. The problem with a lot of people is they don't even know their own setup preferences. If you do, it's a lot easier to dial in what you want, as opposed to what you "think" you need. I'm a monotube guy, but these TTX are something else, it's like if aliens made a twin-tube racing shock. Definitely not your grandpa's old-school TC Kline twin-tube Koni…..ahh, the good ole-days of shock fade and riding bump stops.
Regardless, I have them on my 991.2 GT3, and I can tell you this, the transformation is pretty remarkable on track. The way it controls an 1157# rear spring is unreal, even on the street. It's barely stiffer than stock, and proof that it's the right choice is evidenced by the fact that even Porsche went with similar spring rates for the RS on their Bilsteins. For reference, Andy Pilgrim drove a factory prepared stock .2 GT3 at NCM turning some 2:13.XX laps last year (the same day he drove the GT2RS to record laps), and I went ~2 seconds faster on the same exact tires, with nothing else than a set of TTX and proper alignment, in very similar track conditions right around the same time. Am I a better driver than Andy? Of course not. I'm competent, maybe even quick, but that difference in pace isn't because I'm some shoe....I attribute it to good setup, and TTX. Prob 50% alignment, 50% TTX, to be honest. The shocks don't just create lap time, they simply give you confidence and control to enable them. It's still up to you to create it, unlike HP, which you just mash the loud pedal.
I think Ohlins (and some of their Euro tuners like Worx) has focused more on providing setups and tuning on their new packages, so that the baseline setups are pretty good. Honestly, if you are buying TTX's, then you (or your shop) honestly should have enough knowledge to even know why you want them. I think Ohlins expects this also, and probably rightly so. The stock shocks are good, which is why they aren't even offering DFV anymore for 991 GT3's, TTX is the next step up from stiffer springs on stock shocks.
Ohlins also have some new DFV packages called "Dedicated" coming out later this year and next year, which will be track focused, with high spring rates, properly valved, and track/shaker rig tested for popular cars like M3's, miatas, Porsches, etc. etc. They also have some DFV style double adjustable monotubes coming out in the near future for cars like miatas, and other popular track cars, that will slot in between single adjustable DFV and TTX. Had a good convo with them at PRI about all this.
All that said, for a Touring which probably sees a ton more street time, then not worth it. The stock setup on Bilsteins is amazing in it's own right. Whatever is the primary use should be the focus for the suspension, and the stock setup seems to be able to do it all, and well.
OP: 10K is WAY to high for TTX. Call PSI and they will get you a set for well under that......just sayin.
Regardless, I have them on my 991.2 GT3, and I can tell you this, the transformation is pretty remarkable on track. The way it controls an 1157# rear spring is unreal, even on the street. It's barely stiffer than stock, and proof that it's the right choice is evidenced by the fact that even Porsche went with similar spring rates for the RS on their Bilsteins. For reference, Andy Pilgrim drove a factory prepared stock .2 GT3 at NCM turning some 2:13.XX laps last year (the same day he drove the GT2RS to record laps), and I went ~2 seconds faster on the same exact tires, with nothing else than a set of TTX and proper alignment, in very similar track conditions right around the same time. Am I a better driver than Andy? Of course not. I'm competent, maybe even quick, but that difference in pace isn't because I'm some shoe....I attribute it to good setup, and TTX. Prob 50% alignment, 50% TTX, to be honest. The shocks don't just create lap time, they simply give you confidence and control to enable them. It's still up to you to create it, unlike HP, which you just mash the loud pedal.
I think Ohlins (and some of their Euro tuners like Worx) has focused more on providing setups and tuning on their new packages, so that the baseline setups are pretty good. Honestly, if you are buying TTX's, then you (or your shop) honestly should have enough knowledge to even know why you want them. I think Ohlins expects this also, and probably rightly so. The stock shocks are good, which is why they aren't even offering DFV anymore for 991 GT3's, TTX is the next step up from stiffer springs on stock shocks.
Ohlins also have some new DFV packages called "Dedicated" coming out later this year and next year, which will be track focused, with high spring rates, properly valved, and track/shaker rig tested for popular cars like M3's, miatas, Porsches, etc. etc. They also have some DFV style double adjustable monotubes coming out in the near future for cars like miatas, and other popular track cars, that will slot in between single adjustable DFV and TTX. Had a good convo with them at PRI about all this.
All that said, for a Touring which probably sees a ton more street time, then not worth it. The stock setup on Bilsteins is amazing in it's own right. Whatever is the primary use should be the focus for the suspension, and the stock setup seems to be able to do it all, and well.
OP: 10K is WAY to high for TTX. Call PSI and they will get you a set for well under that......just sayin.
can you tell more on the alignment settings camber etc. used with TTX ?
05-06-2019, 10:00 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
-3.7 Front
Zero toe
-2.8 Rear
.17 degree toe (each side)
