tasman

Thanks for all the pics and info Pete. Have forgotten how lucky I am with road America an hour away

mdrums

Florida Manufacture plates? Where in Florida does Porsche have a place? I'd think these would have been Georgia Manufacture plates, no?

krell

Bryan Sellers did a 2:17 in a 2RS last August with no setup work -- car was bone stock. With the proper suspension adjustments in place and the Cup 2R tires I would think low 2:12 . . . maybe a high 2:10. With the additional aero and mechanical grip it would really help in the Carousel which is a long turn and where the 2RS fell behind the .1 Cup car. 3RS a low 2:20, but I'd love to see it crack a 2:19!!!

Pete, thanks so much for being our eyes and ears and scribe to this event! And if you're able to get relevant .2 GT3 suspension numbers, AND have them specific to Road America, dinner and beer are on my the next time you're in town!

.dee

Personally i look at camber set up less so for timing purposes but rather to improve tyre wear and maximize the contact patch when a particular side is loaded, what i have found so far, is the 991.2 3RS tends to load the outside rears a lot
unless you get to about -2.5 deg, the front is fine with as little as -1.7deg where conventional wisdom would indicate to run higher negative at the front.





I have gone through two sets of tyres now and the final set up is -2.0 at the front and -2.5 at rear. Medium set up on F/R sways and am getting even tyre wear all around.

Note this is very track and driving style dependent...

stout

You do know your cars, setups, tires, and tracks…wish I could say which of these are in the park...

Man, may need to get up early to hit "submit reply…"

Yes. Yes you are. I really might trade three of our local tracks for one Road America. What a very cool place...

There's a rhyme and reason for this, but it escapes me again. Used to be CA and GA. These days it's CA and FL mostly. I think it may have to do with fleet licensing/insurance/etc laws.

Sellers knows his way around a car, that's for sure. Top guy, too. Last week's time was quicker, but that's all I'll say about that.

In the meantime, some data from Porsche (PCNA in this case), which is always nice to have in threads like this...

2019 911 GT3 RS compared to 2018 911 GT3

-Engine based on 2018 911 GT3 engine, but with 20 more horsepower (520 compared to 500) and 7 lb.-ft. more torque (346 lb.-ft. compared to 339 lb.-ft.) through titanium rear silencer incl. titanium tailpipes and corresponding engine tune
-PDK with shorter rear axle ratio (4.188 compared to 3.973 on 911 GT3)
-Standard Full Bucket Seats with carbon fiber backrests
-Based on wider 911 Turbo/Turbo S body like GT2 RS (911 GT3 based on 911 Carrera 4 body width) - 74 inches in width compared to 72.9 inches on 911 GT3
-Wider front track (1588 mm compared to 1551 mm on 911 GT3)
-Wider rear track (1557 mm compared to 1555 mm on 911 GT3)
-Front fenders and luggage compartment lid made of carbon fiber
-Magnesium roof
-Lightweight gorilla glass for rear side windows and rear window
-Different front fascia
-Wheel house vents in fender arches to increase downforce (reduce high pressure build up in wheel wells) and aid front radiator ventilation/heat extraction
-Larger rear wing with three manually adjustable angles of attack positions to increase downforce (GT3 two positions)
-More than twice as much downforce at 200 km/h (200 kilos compared to 69 on 911 GT3)
-Larger front and rear wheels and tires (9,5 x 20 and 265/35 ZR 20 front, 12,5 x 20 and 325/30 ZR 21 rear), resulting in a 20 percent front and 18 percent larger rear contact patch compared to the 911 GT3
-Zero to 60 mph in 3.0 seconds, 0.2 seconds quicker than 2018 911 GT3 PDK
-Suspension with metal ball joints on all chassis bearings (regular GT3 has a combination of metal ball joints and rubber bushings)
-Lightweight springs with helper springs at the front and rear (2018 911 GT3 only has this at the rear)
-NACA ducts in hood for further improved brake cooling
-Interior door panels with door pulls instead of handles and storage nets instead of folding compartment lids
-Optional Weissach Package with Carbon Fiber roof, carbon fiber sway bars and coupling rods, carbon fiber shift paddles and steering wheel trim as well as headrests embroidered with Weissach RS logotype and track layout and Weissach RS plaque on dashboard trim ($18,000)
-Magnesium wheels optionally available in conjunction with Weissach Package ($13,000)

2019 911 GT3 RS compared to 2016 911 GT3 RS

-New generation of naturally aspirated 4.0 liter flat-six based on 2018 911 GT3 engine, benefiting from the same updates as 2018 911 GT3 engine, including new pistons and rings, DLC coated rocker arms, solid valve train using shims for valve clearance compensation as opposed to hydraulic compensation, stiffer crankshaft with larger main bearing diameters and oil feed centrally through the crankshaft, new oil separator to reduce foaming, wider and thicker connecting rod bearings, plasma coated cylinder liners, higher compression ratio (13.3 : 1 compared to 12.9 : 1 on 2016 911 GT3 RS)
-20 more horsepower (520 compared to 500) and 7 lb.-ft. more torque (346 compared to 339)
-Titanium tailpipes (2016 911 GT3 RS just had a titanium rear silencer but not titanium tailpipes)
-Zero to 60 mph in 3.0 seconds (0.1 second quicker than 2016 911 GT3 RS)
-Higher redline (9,000 rpm compared to 8,800 rpm on 2016 911 GT3 RS)
-Suspension with metal ball joints on all chassis bearings (2016 911 GT3 RS had this in the rear but still had some rubber joints at the front)
-Lightweight front springs with helper springs (2016 911 GT3 RS only had this at the rear)
-Higher spring rates (100 N/mm compared to 45 N/mm front, 160 N/mm compared to 120 N/mm rear), stiffness of front sway bar reduced by 50 N/mm. The helper springs are used for pretensioning and fixing the position of the main spring during deflection)
-Slightly quicker steering ratio on center (17.15 : 1 compared to 17.65 : 1 on 2016 911 GT3 RS)
-NACA ducts in front hood for further improved brake cooling
-Modified wheel house vents in front fender arches
-Like 2018 911 GT3, new front and rear fascia are made of lightweight polyurethane (combination of hollow glass spheres and carbon fiber elements)
-Rear underbody diffusor for further improved downforce
-40 percent more downforce
-New generation of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tire (labeled N2 compared to N1 on 2016 911 GT3 RS), new generation of Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2 (compared to Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 1 on 2016 911 GT3 RS)
-Optional road-legal track tire Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R N-spec
-New wheel design with GT3 RS logo in wheel and optional pinstriping in Lizard Green
-New optional exterior color Lizard Green
-Optional Weissach Package with carbon fiber roof, carbon fiber sway bars and coupling rods, carbon fiber shift paddles and steering wheel trim as well as headrests embroidered with Weissach RS logo and Weissach track layout and Weissach RS plaque on dashboard trim ($18,000)
-Magnesium wheels optionally available in conjunction with Weissach Package ($13,000)

Will check to see if it's okay to release two PDFs with more factory data—while none of the above is new info (nor are the PDFs), it's never bad to have factory info living in places like this.

TRAKCAR

Glad to read about quicker ration for the steering.
I thought it was in my head or due to smaller steering wheel and mega front grip, car felt nervous first time out.

It’s the 29th here..

stout

Yeah, just checked the embargo. Sigh. It's 09:00 EDT on 4/30. (Cue the rampant speculation over coffee everywhere. Hint: It's gonna be in hundredths.)

Hey, I wonder if I should send the closest guess without going over an issue of 000?

Hmm...

sunnyr

Thanks Pete for sharing your experience and the pics. You don't get to see many LO .2 3 RS (and I would have bet it was guards red if you hadn't said otherwise).

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Porsche exec (from the digital side, but an enthusiast nonetheless) last year. Was asking him if he thought there would be a send off RS for 991 gen like RS 4.0 for 997. His answer was very unlikely, because last time around they wanted to do a GT3 RS that incorporated the chassis lessons learned from the 997 GT2 RS which the RS 3.8 apparently didn't have. But according to him, this time around the regular 3 RS already incorporates every trick from the 2RS, so he didn't see really see a point for one. Also the engine being already homologated vs last time made it even more unlikely.


Cue... Taycan GT with some mindfulness music piped in...

Nizer

Now you're just messing with us.

Assume the embargo expires at midnight Greenwich Mean Time....

TRAKCAR

9AM tomorrow it is...
So I'm close on one and not on the other...
Going for that 000 issue, like a "who-wants-to-be-a-millionaire" contestant.

.2 GT3RS
Well, I lapped 2:249 at Road America and beat up MPSC2 N1, drove from Florida to Road America on them, then beat on them for a couple days and finally as they were cording ran a couple of high 2:24's.
Given that this was my first visit to Road America in my 991, my lack of talent and tires but good sense of self preservation and that I drove 8! seconds of my time at Spa with my bone stock .2 GT3RS VS my bone stock .1 GT3RS, I think I have to be close on the .2 GT3RS..

Talent is 3/4 seconds from these drivers and the tires are 2 seconds compared to fresh MPSC2 N2, so I could run a 2:22 with my .1 GT3RS.
Pro driver at least 3 seconds faster makes it a 2:19
Another at least 2 seconds for the R tires over the MPSC2 N2 tires makes it a 2:17
Another 2 seconds for the car is a 2:15 or better

GT2RS
Sellers is a hell of a driver but he got minimal practice laps, he ran a 2:17 on MPSC N2 figured he could do a 2:15, good enough for me.
So, all that is there is a 2:15 minus 2 seconds for the R tires makes it a 2:13
I will give another 1 second for all day setup and experience with the GT2RS by Porsche and the drivers there.
So that gives us a 2:12 or 3 seconds faster then a .2 GT3RS same day, same track.

When they did the same test at Road Atlanta the GT2RS was 2 seconds faster.
Also a long straight, similar track to Road America, but Road America is even more of a HP track, so the difference should be bigger by another second.

So It seems in line, 2 second delta at Road ATL and 3 second delta at Road America
GT3RS 1:26 at Road ATL 2:15 at Road America
GT2RS 1:24 at Road ATL 2:11/2:12 at Road America

And they were allowed to run windows up, I suppose and everyone knows that's faster then windows down as well.

Final answer

krell

^^^^
Good analysis.

My guess is the delta between cars is a little bigger based on the speed deltas between the 2RS and Cup car when the comparo was done last August. The 2RS was doing almost 170 coming down into T5 based on the speed display at the top of the advertising board on the inside of the turn, while the Cup was a good 15mph slower. With three long straights I think that helps take more advantage of the additional power. Cup car is lighter than the 3RS and the latter has more power but I'm calling it a wash.

TRAKCAR

^^ Agreed, I was leaning towards 4 seconds delta, but then when I verified the delta at Road ATL being only 2 seconds, 4 seems a lot but possible.

So then 2:11 - 2:15 or maybe 2:12 - 2:16?

Whoopsy

Your car and my car have the quicker rack. I didn't find out until I went out on the Leipzig track in one of their cars at the turn in for turn 1. I asked and got confirmation.

TRAKCAR

^^^ Thanks Whoopsy! I think it was why I felt that the front of the .2 GT3RS felt so bound up and nervous when I went back to back with my car.
I haven't noticed it really with the massive front grip of the .2 GT3RS. Its a different level from the .1 GT3RS. Biggest change ever between a series one and a series two.

stout

You're welcome—and I can't believe how much I liked the car in LO. I was really surprised. Maybe it's the carbon elements? Or? Not sure, but where it didn't (and still doesn't) work for me on the .1, I really like it on the .2. To each their own, however—but my guess is LO is gonna be rare, rare, rare on the .2 GT3 RS.

All of the ^ makes sense and tracks with what I know of the progression.

UGH to any fakery (and that includes PSE for me), but the 918 opened my eyes to the idea that a pure EV sports car could be very cool—the most fun I had in that car on the road was in E-power mode. Also wonder what straight-cut gears might do for an EV...as the best noises in a GT3 Cup or RSR (inside the car, anyway) come from the gearbox...just addictive.

You can keep the Taycan GT (and I hope they never make one), but the idea of a new 901-sized coupe with rear weight bias and RWD plus a powertrain and battery tech harvested from the Taycan remains appealing to me—particularly if it is smaller than the 718. Talk about the potential for doing more from less....and the reality is the current crop of supercars are total overkill for the road. Maybe it's time for a reset button?

Ha. You think like I do—what's the best line through this bend?—but embargo specifically states 09:00 EDT.

A few hints to keep this interesting:

• Sellers set a remarkably quick time, given the above.
• Not sure the 2Rs are worth what some are suggesting they are; not sure they're not. What I noticed, and Pobst also feels, more predicability and a bigger "window"
• Remember we'll be comparing two different cars on two different days—and some may be "disappointed," but I suspect real lap times.
• Cars were set up at PCNA, an all-day affair based on intel from Weissach and their own know-how based on previous tests such as Lightning Lap, Road Atlanta with Pobst, etc.
• The support team day of last week was minima—one tech, one tire engineer from Michelin, and one PR man who knows his way around a track himself as well as how to provide help with tires etc. on pit lane. That's it. I don't think they messed with setup, or ARBs.

Can confirm the 2RS is deep into the 160s on the way into T5, which scarcely seems believable until you see it for yourself. And everyone will this week.

^^ This reminds me of a road test I did eons ago for Excellence, with a silver 996 GT3 press car. We brought two privately owned 996 GT2s along, since there was no more 996 GT3 press car. The Arctic Silver GT2 had a quicker rack...it was super noticeable. Turned out the Seal Gray GT2 was a very early car, and they didn't have the quicker rack yet so it got a Turbo rack. And, yes, the rack ratio can make a BIG difference. Makes me wonder what the US press GT2s, which didn't receive rave reviews for handling, had. The silver GT2 that day drove closer to the 996 GT3 than I expected after my previous experience in the cars, though nowhere near as close as today's GT2 RS is to today's GT3 RS in terms of handling dynamics. Then as now, the added turbo torque opened up new options with the handling and grip—but the linearity of the latest GT2 engine is in another field entirely. The soundtrack has finally been addressed, too. I remember one of the first things AP mentioned before I drove the current 2RS in Weissach: We almost went with no mufflers at all—and would have been fine—but this went out the window when we went to even bigger turbos.