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SNIP....as set up by Kellen Miller at PECATL, who I can attest is very thorough.
What is PECATL? Does Kellen work there? Can I drive my GT3 up to Atlanta for him to set it up? Does he have some inside knowledge for .2 GT3's like he does for the RS?
Surprise to see the rear camber is more negative than the front while my 3RS looks to have more camber in front.
Just guessing....but have put a lot of thought into this since this is totally opposite of how every track car is set up....but I think - feel - believe this more rear camber is due to the MPSC2 tires and multi compound from outer to inner tread. Plus when I look at MPSC2 tires they seem to have some sort of camber lean in the tread too.
Aero: Maximum downforce for our time at RA
ARB: Both set to middle
Setup: Per alignment below, which was recommended by Weissach as a basis for optimum track performance, as set up by Kellen Miller at PECATL, who I can attest is very thorough. Not a "sufficient" kind of guy. From my own observation, both the 2RS and 3RSs on hand were very low—particularly at the rear. Gotta say they handled brilliantly...very confidence inspiring.
Alignment specs for the Guards Red GT2 RS, Lizard Green GT3 RS, and Lava Orange GT3 RS:
· Front camber: -2°
· Rear camber -2,5°
· Front toe: 0-+1‘ (per side)
· Rear toe +10‘-12‘ (per side with 8mm shims 991 331 543 84 installed)
· Re-connect anti-roll bars in the zero (center hole) position.
^ Mike, you've got some pretty great people in FL as well. I learned a long time ago that the key with alignment is patience on the part of the tech and a willingness to pay the hours to do it right. Different people have different ideas on what that is, but I believe the alignments on these cars are a 6-8 hour affair. A lot gets loosened, like major components, before everything gets tightened back up. An ex-Lizard engineer here in the Bay Area is known to take a day or two on an alignment. Those who want cheaper (and pretty good, in many cases!) alignments have a lot of choices.
I tried one of Kellen's 981 GT4 press cars and it was the best handling GT4 I tested, hands down. I was tempted to duplicate his setup on my car, but tried an alternative setup from a friend "over there," and liked it initially and liked it even more after lowering the rear a smidge—probably equal to or better than Kellen's setup. YMMV, as driver preference comes into alignments, too. I like more weight in the back of a car, as I don't mind trail braking to stick the nose and prefer a bit more weight out back under braking as well as when leaving corners.
Had no "moments" in either the 3RS or 2RS out there. Well, no moments other than being gobsmacked by the speed potential of the 2RS. It's another world, and a new challenge.
For everyone else: I started to paraphrase Andrew's answers to all of the questions, but think I'll have our interview transcribed and post it so you've got his words rather than my interpretation of them.
If you have questions for me, please feel free to post them...
^ Mike, you've got some pretty great people in FL as well. .
Yes you are correct. My local shop Vortex could do it as they've set up cup cars but when talking to them just don't seem to want to do it. Plus they don't know what ride height to set to then corner balance that out. I trust John over at BGB in Daytona and might have to make the 3 hour trip over...John really knows his Caymans though but I dont know what he knows about 991 GT3. Orbit in Pompano did some things to my 2012 997.2 GTS and they could corner balance and set ride heights on this .2 GT3 I am sure.
I was just hoping maybe possibly this Kellen guy might know some cool stuff and magic about the regular .2 GT3 like he seems to know on the RS cars...no? I was hoping someone in the entire world has done set up on the .2 GT3 and had somethings to say and compare. Seems like all the cool set ups are only on RS cars.
Sorry for going dark for a couple of days—caught some sort of nasty bug upon my return. In any event, photos uploaded to post #29 as intended, and below just in case you don't want to wade back there:
You can see rear ride height here. It was "-1 finger" in the rear...or was it -2 or -3?
Also have to wonder if Lava Orange isn't the most shape-shiftery Porsche color yet. Wasn't my favorite on the 991.1 RS, but I've been surprised by how much I like it on the narrow, simple 991.2 Carrera/S/T…and again on the 991.2 GT3 RS. Go figure. My guess is it will be fairly rare.
They were, the day before we arrived. The lap time is embargo'd until 4/30, I believe, but I'll post it here if you cats don't find it first.
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
This literally echoes my thoughts.
And really is why I'm planning on switching cars.
Thanks for the feedback, Pete.
You're welcome! Color me surprised and not surprised in a different way, as I think this over. Surprised because, historically (996 & 997 eras), I was one who generally preferred the GT3 to the GT2 on track for the NA cars' precision and predictability, and to a lesser extent, their noise. This GT2, however, addresses all three while adding a mountain of useful torque and a less flustered overall demeanor. I feel like it uses all of its chassis and brakes...think leap from 3.0 RSR > the turbo RSR, except this thing is far more resolved than the 934 ever was. So maybe the better analogy is GT3 RS is shades of 3.0 RSR (had everything it needed but power) while GT2 RS is shades of 935 (has everything it needs to use all it has, and then some). Interestingly, I really preferred the turbo engine on track...not just for the way the car lunged out of corners or carried on down straights, but for the less-frantic soundtrack. I was better concentrated, and I feel like I got more out of myself. YMMV.
Originally Posted by Hex
The sound of the GT2RS is great. And, it’s ability to warp time and space is epic. I also agree with the thought that the sound of the 3RS, while delightful, could become a stimuli you don’t need at wide open throttle for extended periods. I must admit, however, I didn’t keep it long enough to find out as I bought a GT2RS.
What I found, too. Saw hints of that on street drives in these cars, but it was crystal clear at Road America. At some point, can noise get in the way of speed? Hmm...perhaps there's a parallel to the fact that Sport Plus kills PSE's loudest setting in some modes...
Originally Posted by pranqster
There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the particulate filters as to whether they will show up in the US or when they will show up in the US.
Is there a basic neutral track alignment for the 992 GT3 RS (and other GT cars) with camber and castor the motorsport drivers like to start with from for both the 992 GT3 and 992 GT3 RS?
It would be nice if we had something like the Kassamul setup for the 996 GT3's that worked very well as a base to start.
I am interested for your feedback on the 992 GT3RS on the big long track at Road America (if you get to drive while there). Maybe there will be some GT3's there also.
^ Waiting for the transcribe on some of your questions along with Nizer's but alignment settings up (as you know) and will see if I can also get some setup info for regular .2 GT3 per the requests here.
My primary feedback on the 991.2 GT3 RS on a long track like Road America is it was fun before I tried the GT2 RS, and then I just found myself wishing to be back in the GT2 RS after that. I didn't expect that, and can see where some will still prefer the 3RS (especially on small tracks), but the shocker for me is how similarly the two drive in terms of chassis given the weight differences. All of the systems in these cars—along with calibration know-how gleaned from and since the 918—have really narrowed the gap. Where I was once asked if the next GT2 RS should be AWD (and I thought it should, recalling the 964 C4L), I have to admit RWD works better than fine here—and keeps the front end feeling light and "free." I only saw the TC light up coming out of Canada Corner, though it's possible it flickered elsewhere when I either wasn't watching or the sun was on the gauge. Had no noticeable interaction from systems to blunt my pace, and Porsche requested all systems remain on. I think Pobst was the exception to the rule, and I understand why...
Originally Posted by A/S
1) Could you please have them adjust the aero package in the press GT3RS car? It takes 10 minutes, jack up the front axle from a corner and put a jack stand on the other, remove the fender grills (the mesh grills underneath), the little flaps ahead of the front wheels, and on the rear wing there are 4 positions put the bolts on the hole closest to the wing.
All of the cars were set up for max downforce.
Originally Posted by A/S
2) can they share the alignment specs for the press cars when used on racetracks, as well as target hot tire pressures for the stock tires?
Alignment up, will look into targeted hot tire pressures.
Originally Posted by A/S
3) Could you check if the hotshoes are running the car in comfort or sport suspension?
Everyone ran the suspension in Sport. I tried it one lap (for you!) in comfort and moved back to Sport.
Originally Posted by A/S
4) Could you check if the pro drivers at the event are running any ESC or TC assistance
Pobst was all systems off, but he's a different level.
Originally Posted by A/S
5) what settings are they using on the front and rear anti-sway bars?
Middle for both.
Originally Posted by A/S
6) why is the car short-shifting at full throttle when driven on auto mode with the steering not straight?
As with Seth, I am not getting that? Asked others around, and none had that issue, either.
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
Some great questions from Nizer and A/S..
Id kill for proper OEM setup number for the Ring and for Spa without having to pay Manthey for the info and their must-buy related parts.
If it works at the Ring and at Spa , it will work anywhere.
Can't speak to Ring or Spa for this setup, but suspect Porsche wouldn't be using it were it bad at either. Heard good things from Road Atlanta, too. As for Road America, it was brilliant. Would be curious to know how it is in your neck of the woods…
Originally Posted by krell
The LG 3RS shown in the picture that was posted from Road America has the same license plate as the car that Pobst ran at Road Atlanta. So . . . what's the lap time?
You'll know on Tuesday…
Originally Posted by krell
Those camber specs surprised me too. I'll be running at Road America over Memorial Day with my .2 GT3 and am wondering what to do for suspension setup. Any thoughts on if these values would translate well to a GT3 considering the reduced aero?
Let me see if I can get a setup...
Originally Posted by A/S
Pete this is very valuable…
Per pictures, those press cars are slammed, they have been lowered in the back, I would like to see a picture of their inner fender lips, fender liners because a 10mm drop I made in the rear gave me a nice Guard Red stripe on my MPSC2 tires just driving around town.
Thanks for the info!!!
You are welcome!
More pics up now, and may have higher res in my "real" camera if desired. Not sure I shot for this, however.
Originally Posted by mdrums
Yes you are correct. My local shop Vortex could do it as they've set up cup cars but when talking to them just don't seem to want to do it. Plus they don't know what ride height to set to then corner balance that out. I trust John over at BGB in Daytona and might have to make the 3 hour trip over...John really knows his Caymans though but I dont know what he knows about 991 GT3. Orbit in Pompano did some things to my 2012 997.2 GTS and they could corner balance and set ride heights on this .2 GT3 I am sure.
I was just hoping maybe possibly this Kellen guy might know some cool stuff and magic about the regular .2 GT3 like he seems to know on the RS cars...no? I was hoping someone in the entire world has done set up on the .2 GT3 and had somethings to say and compare. Seems like all the cool set ups are only on RS cars.
thanks Mike
Funny. We Californians chuckle at East Coasters' lack of understanding at the distances involved in our state....but I am learning that I have very little appreciation for the distances involved in your state, Mike!
Can't hurt to call the PECATL and ask to speak to the workshop there, and if you can book Kellen for an alignment—or if he travels? Then again, hear consistently good things about John @ BG, so...
Last edited by stout; 04-29-2019 at 02:17 AM.
Reason: Had the date of embargo wrong—that's on me. "Solution" offered below...
Thanks Pete for the photos and reply’s. Hope you’re feeling better...I’ve been fighting bronchitis for 2 weeks and still not 100% better...can’t get my cough to go away.
like Krell...if you can find out if any of these ride heights and set up transfer over to a 991.2 gt3 I’m interested....especially ride height
Thanks Pete for the photos and reply’s. Hope you’re feeling better...I’ve been fighting bronchitis for 2 weeks and still not 100% better...can’t get my cough to go away.
like Krell...if you can find out if any of these ride heights and set up transfer over to a 991.2 gt3 I’m interested....especially ride height
Thanks, Mike! Feeling better though still a bit off—but am back in the office doing a little catchup. Not gonna push too hard today, as I gotta get 010 on the boil and prep for another trip...
GT3RS on MPSC N2 2:18, the new car is easy 3/4 seconds faster then the .1 RS and a pro is another 3/4 seconds faster then me. My best was 2:24.
GT2RS on MPSC N2 2:15
Subtract 2-3? Seconds for R.
So 2:14 - 2:15 for the GT3RS
And 2:11 - 2:12 GT2RS, pretty much matching a 991 CUP.
So that setup seems very mild for R tires.
This tells me that the OEM camber is probably fine at -1.5/-2.0.
04-25-2019, 07:01 PM
