Notices
991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R
Sponsored by:

Is GT3 touring really a touring?

 
Old 04-08-2019, 05:41 PM
  #61  
GT3
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
GT3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,521
Default

Originally Posted by The Pope View Post
Nice wheels...
Thanks! OEM Wheel Set is for sale
GT3 is offline  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:48 PM
  #62  
unotaz
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
unotaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Los Angeles/Taipei
Posts: 1,207
Default

I would agree with your statement below. I have met quite a few Touring owners and from my conversations with Exclusive personnels, it would appear that Touring owners love to spend $$$ on CXX on their beloved cars. While I have no real statistics in front of me, I bet you Touring owners on-average spend more $$$ than regular GT3 clients on specs. Why? I think the 911R had a lot to do with it. 911R had one of the highest take rates on CXX options in the history of the 991 model line. There were a lot of unique builds and those became an inspiration for many Porsche clients. A lot of people wanted the R but couldn't get the allocation, so when the Touring model was introduced, many people jump at the chance to create their own unique car, inspired by what they had seen with the various 911R builds.

In the end, Porsche wins!


Originally Posted by tonymission View Post
I'm in an Instagram "chat group" of touring owners and it sure seems like the big difference with these cars is that the owners are actually driving them and largely thinking of them as "keeper cars" rather than something to flip and make some money on. Maybe that's because the market has changed and there's really no profit to be made, but I think if you're ordering a touring, you're doing it for yourself versus what you think the world will want to buy from you. These cars are getting miles, that's for sure.
unotaz is offline  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:01 PM
  #63  
Maverick11
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 76
Default

Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
I'm guessing you haven't priced out a GTS recently...

A GT3T is simply for someone who wants a GT3 but thinks a big wing on a street car looks a bit ridiculous. Different strokes for different folks.
Agree that a touring is for folks that don't want the wing. Still a GT3. But where do we draw the line? Back seats? Convertible? Street comfort suspension? Lots of threads recently asking for this stuff.
Maverick11 is online now  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:36 PM
  #64  
Jrtaylor9
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: London / NYC
Posts: 2,102
Default

Originally Posted by TexasPorschelover
Personally I don't know why you get a winged car and a manual gearbox if you are so concerned with downforce lap times, knowing its as fast as possible etc. Winged cars, to me, should be PDK. Touring cars are perfect with a manual gearbox ONLY.
Because I can get it in clubsport in Europe and it's a Swiss Army knife; it does it all. And honestly, I really don't care if it has a wing or not. Its just an appearance thing and I'm indifferent; i just drive them either way and they drive relatively the same, only I get a cage and harnesses in the CS (which has a wing). And I get a manual to try out on the street. I've had both 991 3rs in pdk already. So the manual box was a novelty i wanted to experience. Don't anyone worry about it being flipped. It's getting driven in the hail, on track, slowly

Name:  photo272.jpg
Views: 177
Size:  423.0 KB

So, yes, I'd own an RS w/wing and pdk for mostly track (as I have in the past). This winged manual CS also let me try out the street/touring thing and that's where I'm left kinda scratching my head on that concept after owning it. My impression is that it's a blast on track (slower than RS but just as much fun), but marginal as a touring car. Ripping the wing off the back and adding some leather inside wouldn't change that impression. Hence the thread.

Last edited by Jrtaylor9; 04-08-2019 at 06:52 PM.
Jrtaylor9 is offline  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:51 PM
  #65  
TexasPorschelover
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
TexasPorschelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 839
Default

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9 View Post
Because I can get it in clubsport in Europe and it's a Swiss Army knife; it does it all. And honestly, I really don't care if it has a wing or not. Its just an appearance thing and I'm indifferent; i just drive them either way and they drive relatively the same, only I get a cage and harnesses in the CS (which has a wing). And I get a manual to try out on the street. I've had both 991 3rs in pdk already. So the manual box was a novelty i wanted to experience. Don't anyone worry about it being flipped. It's getting driven in the hail, on track, slowly

Attachment 1302697

So, yes, I'd own an RS w/wing and pdk for mostly track (as I have in the past). This winged manual CS also let me try out the street/touring thing and that's where I'm left kinda scratching my head on that concept after owning it. My impression is that it's a blast on track (slower than RS but just as much fun), but marginal as a touring car. hence the thread.
Well its turned into and awesome thread! Bottom line is that Porsche has a car for you for what ever you plan to do and they are and always have been super cars on the street and the track. I wish I had seen the yellow beast when it was in town by the way!
TexasPorschelover is offline  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:54 PM
  #66  
Jrtaylor9
Super User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: London / NYC
Posts: 2,102
Default

Haha, yeah, I knew I'd poke a beehive when I posted this thread. Was a legit opinion; no trolling implied. And no mention of values. Nonetheless I knew it would get some response. The touring crowd is a passionate one

And your green touring is a beaut and a keeper.
Jrtaylor9 is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:39 AM
  #67  
tonymission
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
tonymission's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,047
Default

Originally Posted by unotaz View Post
I would agree with your statement below. I have met quite a few Touring owners and from my conversations with Exclusive personnels, it would appear that Touring owners love to spend $$$ on CXX on their beloved cars. While I have no real statistics in front of me, I bet you Touring owners on-average spend more $$$ than regular GT3 clients on specs. Why? I think the 911R had a lot to do with it. 911R had one of the highest take rates on CXX options in the history of the 991 model line. There were a lot of unique builds and those became an inspiration for many Porsche clients. A lot of people wanted the R but couldn't get the allocation, so when the Touring model was introduced, many people jump at the chance to create their own unique car, inspired by what they had seen with the various 911R builds.

In the end, Porsche wins!
Probably true on the spec. There are a lot of really "nice" Touring builds even if a lot of that money won't be returned. Conversations here always seem to center around "this is the perfect stripper spec, exactly how it should be", but that points the focus more on resale of the car and extracting maximum value. I have a 201k sticker myself on a Touring and I know a lot of people think that's crazy, but when I get into the car I almost always take a second to look around and take in the beauty of the cockpit. It seems to add to my personal enjoyment and sense of occasion for me.
tonymission is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:07 AM
  #68  
bluehorseshoe
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
bluehorseshoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Posts: 1,368
Default

911R is more of a Touring with its more supple suspension and road demeanor! GT3 Touring would have made a better 911R. Porsche got the names mixed up. Nevertheless, both are quite extraordinary.
bluehorseshoe is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:49 PM
  #69  
isv
User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 560
Default

Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
Porsche needs to get with the times and use magnetorheologic suspension like Cadillac and Ferrari and a few others now. The old school Valved suspension tuning that Porsche uses really makes a minuscule and insignificant difference between regular and sport mods... In comparison to Ferrari for example, where "bumpy road" setting allows for a truly comfortable ride, and then regular mode is completely at home on the track. Porsche needs to up its game in suspension management.. of course I'm not expecting mclaren sports series level of refinement, but if even Cadillac can afford to put these awesome dampers in their cars...
There's not that much difference between the magride damper and the PASM one though. Ok the magride damper has a greater range but fundamentally the car's damping has to be matched to the springs it's fitted with unless you go to something like the Tenneco hydraulic system on the Mclaren. Quality of damper is more important than the type imo.
isv is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:59 PM
  #70  
Akunob
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Akunob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,221
Default

Originally Posted by TexasPorschelover View Post
Personally I don't know why you get a winged car and a manual gearbox if you are so concerned with downforce lap times, knowing its as fast as possible etc. Winged cars, to me, should be PDK. Touring cars are perfect with a manual gearbox ONLY.
For some, like my buddy in his winged chalk .2 GT3 with a MT, the thrill is in the engagement and added skill required at the track while rowing his own gears. Yes, his car has auto rev-matching etc, which makes things a lot easier but quite a few folks really enjoy shifting gears the traditional way (i.e., with a third pedal) vs. merely paddle shifting on the track. Ironically, I think the the perception that the PDK GT3 is much faster on track than the MT GT3 has been debunked quite a bit. The advantage on track is not really about faster shift speeds (the .2 GT3 MT has full throttle shifting) but how the PDK can adjust gearing mid-corner, if needed. The differences in laptimes in the hands of a decent driver is in the 1/10th of seconds and not 2-3 full secs on a 2 mins lap track.
Akunob is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:14 PM
  #71  
Perimeter
Super User
 
Perimeter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA PNW + AZ
Posts: 2,413
Default

About 6 months ago, CAlexio had a great retort about several parameters that Porsche needed to alter to remove that wing to create a Touring. I searched and couldn't find it but it logically called out several differences between the two cars; Winged and GT3T
Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Having driven behind one on Highway 1 the other day, I don't think even the casual observer will think it's a standard Carrera. It's so wide and low and mean looking, it looks special even to the untrained eye. The Touring is simply a GT3 for people who don't want to drive around with a big wing on the back all the time. Nothing more, nothing less. Porsche should have just made a wing delete option rather than a 'touring' package.
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
After all of the 911R furor, I believe the point was to offer a wingless GT3 variant for 'the masses'; the decision to offer it as an option package after release of the 991.2 GT3 rather than a new model kept the VIP program members from taking allocations.
Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
Porsche needs to get with the times and use magnetorheologic suspension like Cadillac and Ferrari and a few others now. The old school Valved suspension tuning that Porsche uses really makes a minuscule and insignificant difference between regular and sport mods... In comparison to Ferrari for example, where "bumpy road" setting allows for a truly comfortable ride, and then regular mode is completely at home on the track. Porsche needs to up its game in suspension management.. of course I'm not expecting mclaren sports series level of refinement, but if even Cadillac can afford to put these awesome dampers in their cars...
I believe GM holds that patent....
Perimeter is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:55 PM
  #72  
unotaz
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
unotaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Los Angeles/Taipei
Posts: 1,207
Default

There is not patent from GM, as Ferrari and a few other manufacturers have used these shocks already. These shocks are coming from Delphi, who supplies the industry anyways.

Originally Posted by Perimeter View Post

I believe GM holds that patent....
unotaz is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:20 PM
  #73  
The Pope
Holy Guru
Rennlist
Registered Pontiff

 
The Pope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: V City
Posts: 326
Default

Originally Posted by unotaz View Post
There is not patent from GM, as Ferrari and a few other manufacturers have used these shocks already. These shocks are coming from Delphi, who supplies the industry anyways.
Initially, they all paid GM/Delphi to use it but I am not sure now that a Chinese company owns the technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagneRide
The Pope is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:04 PM
  #74  
Alan Smithee
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Alan Smithee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,790
Default

...
Alan Smithee is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:09 PM
  #75  
A/S
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 455
Default

A Touring is not a GT3.

All GT3s (factory race cars and street cars) have wings, since 1998.

Porsche didn't place a GT4 badge on the Spyder, it is called a Boxster Spyder, not a Boxster GT4 Spyder, and they share engine and transmission.

A 911 R is a 911 R, not a GT3 R.
The 911 Turbo S has a GT2RS engine inside, Porsche doesn't call it the GT2 RS Touring.

Take a Cabriolet, put a GT3 engine inside, it doesn't become a GT3 Cabriolet, it's called a Speedster, no GT3 reference because is wing-less.


The GT3 name comes the FIA-GT3 regulations, everything racing there has wings.

A Touring is not a GT3.
A/S is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: