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After I expressed my concern about the wear on the rotors, the dealership shifted blame to myself, and held the stance that I wore out the rotors (in 2 weeks, 700 miles). Subsequently I contacted PCNA, who basically ignored me, and told me that they couldn't do anything, and that the problem was between myself and the dealership. I then escalated my complaint to CAP-Motors, which is the consumer arbitration program for cars. This is the required sequence, outlined by tte CPO manual. I recently had my arbitration hearing, and PCNA was listed as the defendant, not the dealership. The conlusion/recommendations will be delivered within the next two weeks. After the conclusion, I will post further details. Thanks for your interest!
Here are some screenshots of the documents that I used for my defense, which some may find useful for future reference (taken from the 991 Porsche factory service repair manual):
Looking at a CPO vehicle now and it's going through the formal process right now. I asked about a reading and the sales person said that since it has only 7k miles, a reading is not necessary. Of course I want to push having read this thread. I've attached a couple of pics that he sent me and I know that visual inspections vs using the special tool are completely different. Based on these pics, do you see any immediate red flags? Thanks!
[QUOTE=8202632;15940213]Looking at a CPO vehicle now and it's going through the formal process right now. I asked about a reading and the sales person said that since it has only 7k miles, a reading is not necessary. Of course I want to push having read this thread. I've attached a couple of pics that he sent me and I know that visual inspections vs using the special tool are completely different. Based on these pics, do you see any immediate red flags? Thanks!
There is nothing to “see“. It may look Ok (like opn your pictures) but it does'nt mean it is.
Read the procedure up here and have a proper measurement
I started a tread on PCCB brakes many years ago and the bottom line is : like the steel ones, it will wear and die...
Great system but an expensive one if you track your car and you are a fast driver on a demanding circuit...
WPO, please post the outcome when you get a resolution
Porsche needs to step up IMHO, if they want CPO to mean something
Porsche (both the dealership and PCNA) already refused to step up.
Consequently, I had to follow proper CPO protocol, and register a complaint with CAP-Motors in order to force a resolution.
The arbitration hearing has been completed. I am now awaiting the conclusion, which should be delivered within the next ten days.
WPO, please post the outcome when you get a resolution
Porsche needs to step up IMHO, if they want CPO to mean something
I received the arbitration decision, and it concludes that PCNA is to reimburse me $6550, which is essentially 50% of the price of new front rotors. It seems like a reasonable settlement, although I would ideally prefer to be given new front and rear rotors, or the cost thereof, which would be closer to $24,400. The front rotors were definitely past their wear limit, and the rear rotors were just above their wear limits, so I was not given any recourse for the rear rotors.
I will post relevant (probably redacted) details in the near future. . .
@WPO Unfortunate situation, glad it turned out as well as it did. You may want to give Gavin @ AutoQuest in Ft Myers a call, they have replacement PCCB rotors or perhaps they may have some take offs to get you back in good shape. https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-11
Well, my car was built october 2015...same periodo hence; I'm getting some serious issues with my pccb after 17.000 km of 'normal' use of the car with around 10 trackdays and i'm very very cautious...always a couple laps warm-up...no more than 4-5 hot laps then cooling down before doing some (few) other hot laps and ALWAYS cooling down 2 laps before stopping, always OEM pads etc etc. I extimate roughly 1000/1200 km track ...and my disc are worn out.
Would never expect such an early consumption, I know of smb else with same trouble, I know friend with GT3 mk2 and 30.000 km with a lot (and i mean A LOT) of track...with ZERO ISSUES.
I really suspect some specific issue (defective parts), I'm in talks with the manufacturer, will keep updated.
Is the offending, shady dealer actually SunCoast Porsche?
Originally Posted by WP0
Thanks for everyone's suggestions. If necessary, does anyone have a lawyer that they'd recommend in central Florida (Tampa/Orlando) for this type of work?
Here are two of the most recent email conversations that I've had with the sales manager:
#1:
I’ve discussed the brake disc issue with the technician, used car manager, the Service Representative at PCNA, and the Regional CPO Manager. I was looking for more information on PCCB discs and CPO specifications. Brake discs are described in detail in the CPO Policy, and they cannot be CPO’d due to cracking (they even give a visual to alleviate any confusion, which I have included), but there are no listed specifications regarding chips. That being said, we were under the same impression that the other dealer was under: that the rotors would need replaced for CPO specs if they were chipped, which we would have recommended if they were chipped at the time of inspection. It was not recommended, but under CPO, it didn’t need to be anyway.
As far as the wear limits, we inspect the brake discs using the same tool your dealer used. During a CPO inspection, the discs are pass or fail. Porsche does not ask for, or include an area in the CPO documentation to record the measurements and, again, we would have recommended replacement to the sales department had they failed inspection at that time.
I went around and around with our technician regarding your brakes. He is very intimate with that car as he is the only tech that works on it (save for an oil change that was performed while he was out for knee surgery), and the previous owner is a good client of ours. The brakes were inspected and passed at the time of CPO certification. It goes without saying that I am available if you have any further questions.
Then, after my reply of "Just to clarify, you are saying that the same tech who didn't include the front trunk items, and didn't reset the airbag warning light,and didn't align the headlights is telling you that he inspected the rotors, and now they fail, with less than 700 miles on them? Should I go head and contact Porsche NA?", his response is:
#2:
I know that wouldn’t be the news you wanted to hear, and I apologize for that. But I do trust my technician and his inspection process. I am unsure how the airbag warning light slipped through as the tech would have missed it, the salesman would have missed it, the detailer that cleaned the car for delivery and the transporter that inspected it must have all missed it, and I find that very difficult to believe. This is not saying that you are being untruthful, not at all, I just don’t see how not resetting the light could be the cause since we would have noticed it.
The CPO inspection was performed in September. I do believe that the parts were present at the time of inspection. It is possible that those tools were removed and put in another car for a sale. Honestly, I can’t say after 5 months, but I do know that the track cars are inspected very carefully. We take that seriously.
The headlights are inspected for normal operation and aftermarket components. Headlight adjustment is a pretty simple process for your dealer if they deem necessary, however, if it is a case of the left headlight being slightly lower than the right headlight, this is normal and should not be adjusted.
I am happy to try to get you assistance with the brake discs if you could provide me photos of the chips.
06-26-2019, 07:30 AM
