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-   -   Shopping a GT3: should I buy one? (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/1134862-shopping-a-gt3-should-i-buy-one.html)

Kg11 03-21-2019 11:45 PM

Shopping a GT3: should I buy one?
 
My wife and I want a real performance car, having owned 991 2S and 997 4s models in the past. We are going to buy a 997 cab at some point as well, so we are focused on something higher performance, with 2 seats.

Our budget is $100,000, give or take a bit; to me, that says GT4 or GT3. I want as new of a car as possible, so the 997 is out. We want to do drive the car on weekends, weekdays, and on DE weekends. Both of us prefer something a bit more "focused" than a Carrera.

I have time in a 997 GT3 (amazing) and a GT4 (also amazing). My wife would prefer a manual: I am OK with either transmission.

I live in a very rural area, so a test drive is out of the question. I believe most of you live in urban areas (and would yell "just go test drive"), but some of us live in the much-maligned "flyover country" and have to deal with buying remotely.

Nearest GT3 is 5 hours away, and it isn't priced well! I don't want to waste anyone's time at a dealership, as I will buy private party from a fellow enthusiast.

Which car should we target? The GT3 is attractive with the 10-year motor warranty. the GT4 is attractive with the stock parts (having proven to be reliable) and with a 3-pedal gearbox

I figure there is a $15,000 to $20,000 spread between the two.


mdrums 03-21-2019 11:59 PM

You’re going to need around 130-40k for a 2014-15 GT3.

R.Deacon 03-22-2019 12:02 AM

^ Mike I think your strong by 10k anyway

tlp 03-22-2019 12:38 AM

If your patient and open your geographical area you will be able to pick up a 2014 991.1 GT3 for 105-115k.

evilfij 03-22-2019 12:39 AM

$110k will get you a nice enough 991.1 GT3 with some miles.

For the money, I’d rather have a 997.1 GT3 or stretch a bit for a 997.1 GT3 RS (a nice one is $125-130k). 997.2 GT3 or a 991.2 6MT GT3 (big stretch). You can also get a lot of non-GT 991 cab for $100k. They are hard to come by, but it may be a lot of fun to get a 991 (.1 or .2) cab 6MT. I have to say I really want a newer convertible Porsche (I have a 993 C4 cab I love) and I am hoping to get a speedster, but in the mean time I am waiting for the right 991 cab to pop up.

One other one in the $100k and under range is the boxster spyder.

I’d do a mini trip to go check out the cars you are interested in hopefully in one place (Miami, LA etc.) and see what speaks to you and your wife.

Drifting 03-22-2019 12:39 AM


Originally Posted by mdrums (Post 15720378)
You’re going to need around 130-40k for a 2014-15 GT3.


You can get private party 991.1 2015 GT3 for 120-125 (not asking, just the real actual selling price) and 2014 for 5-10K less than that.

Kg11 03-22-2019 12:50 AM


Originally Posted by evilfij (Post 15720445)
$110k will get you a nice enough 991.1 GT3 with some miles.

For the money, I’d rather have a 997.1 GT3 or stretch a bit for a 997.1 GT3 RS (a nice one is $125-130k). 997.2 GT3 or a 991.2 6MT GT3 (big stretch). You can also get a lot of non-GT 991 cab for $100k. They are hard to come by, but it may be a lot of fun to get a 991 (.1 or .2) cab 6MT. I have to say I really want a newer convertible Porsche (I have a 993 C4 cab I love) and I am hoping to get a speedster, but in the mean time I am waiting for the right 991 cab to pop up.

One other one in the $100k and under range is the boxster spyder.

I’d do a mini trip to go check out the cars you are interested in hopefully in one place (Miami, LA etc.) and see what speaks to you and your wife.

Why do you like the 997 over the 991? More reliable? More fun? I loved the 997 I drove, but the 991 looks badazz and is faster, right?

I could get a manual GTS cab, but I don't want to spend that kind of money on a cab; we would rather have 2 cars. One with seats for cruising and kids, and one for adults only weekends

Bobby 911 03-22-2019 12:53 AM


Originally Posted by mdrums (Post 15720378)
You’re going to need around 130-40k for a 2014-15 GT3.

nope. You’ll find a few 2014s as low as 110 now, and you can probably negotiate that down.

Kg11 03-22-2019 12:56 AM


Originally Posted by Bobby 911 (Post 15720459)


nope. You’ll find a few 2014s as low as 110 now, and you can probably negotiate that down.

I ran a search on car gurus, and it seems they start at $115k, nicer ones at $120k, excluding salvage-accident crap. Maybe $110k if I am lucky? If I were a dealer, I would be optimistic if I had a GT3 on the lot: spring is around the corner.

Bobby 911 03-22-2019 01:01 AM


Originally Posted by Kg11 (Post 15720462)
I ran a search on car gurus, and it seems they start at $115k, nicer ones at $120k, excluding salvage-accident crap. Maybe $110k if I am lucky? If I were a dealer, I would be optimistic if I had a GT3 on the lot: spring is around the corner.

i looked a couple of weeks ago and there were two at 110 and one at 112. They probably sold. But at 115 you shouldn’t have trouble coming out at 110. And with a great warranty. Even at 115, that’s a lot of car for the money. Basically gt4 and a bag of chips money.

vodavoda 03-22-2019 01:57 AM

It all depends how happy you want to make your wife :burnout: If you're going 3-pedal at your price point, the GT4 is your answer. If you want more grunt, more badazz stance, more etc., then GT3....the PDK in the GT3 is not the same as in a standard car, which IMO feels like a slush-box. I made the mistake of not wanting to drive a PDK GT3 because I'd driven other PDK models. Then I had time to kill and the dealer told me to take one out....wow, what a difference....way crisper, sportier, etc., not even close to the other models....drove it and bought it.
The point is, you need to drive one. You are in a win-win situation.
And:
Compared with the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) used on the current Porsche models,
the main development objectives for the PDK transmission on the new 911 GT3
were as follows:
• Improving performance
• Reducing complexity
• Motor sports-oriented operating strategy
• More intensive interaction between vehicle and driver
• Enhancing emotionality

These objectives were achieved by a complete overhaul of the gearshift functions
and strategies as well as the transmission ratios and controls.

Technical data
Transmission weight (wet, ready for installation) . . . . . . . . . . . .260 lbs. (117.5 kg)
Transmission weight (dry) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .243 lbs. (110.2 kg)
1st gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 3.750
2nd gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 2.381
3rd gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 1.720
4th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 1.344
5th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 1.114
6th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 0.957
7th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 0.844
Reverse gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 3.417
Final-drive ratio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 3.973
Basic transmission
The Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) was modified significantly based on the current
911 Carrera models in order to adapt it to the performance-oriented objectives of the
new 911 GT3. These modifications include, shorter transmission ratios, shift paddles
with a shorter shift throw and a more precise one-touch function, an improved sporty
shift feeling with performance-oriented shift programs and significantly shorter shift
and response times. In addition, the shifting direction for manual gear changes on the
selector lever in the center console has been adapted to suit the requirements for
professional motor sports. As a result, upshifts “+” take place backwards and downshifts
“–” take place forwards on the new 911 GT3.
The basic functional and mechanical features of the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
are the same as the tried-and-tested Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) used in the current
911 generation (991). Improvements on the new 911 GT3 include the oil supply
and lubrication of the individual gear wheel sets (especially 5th and 7th gear) to
ensure a reliable oil supply even when driving on race circuits while taking into
account the much higher lateral acceleration potential of the new 911 GT3. The use
of lighter gear wheels and gear wheel sets has also resulted in a weight saving of
approximately 4 lbs. ( 1.8 kg).
The final-drive ratio and the complete gear wheel set with all gear ratios from 1st to
7th gear are new for the 911 GT3. To improve driving performance, the new 911
GT3 therefore has gear ratios that are much shorter than on the 911 Carrera models.
These can be up to 9% shorter than on the 911 Carrera S, depending on the gear.
In addition, 7th gear is very much a driving gear for reaching top speed and not an
additional gear (overdrive) for reducing engine speeds while driving with a high-comfort
driving style as on the 911 Carrera models. Together with the 15% shorter finaldrive
ratio, the new 911 GT3 also has much shorter total gear ratios.

The selector lever gate was also adapted for the new 911 GT3. To visually differentiate
the particularly sporty character of the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK), the selector
lever gate has a central double stripe in black. The trim surround of the selector
lever gate was also adapted. In addition to being more purist with no additional selector-
lever positions (P, R, N and D), the selector lever gate features a “GT3” logo and
on the left-hand side, the designations “+” and “–” in Red for manual gear selection.
The display of the selector-lever positions P, R, N and D on the selector-lever release
button and in the tachometer is unchanged.
The shifting direction for manual gear changes on the selector lever is completely
new. Unlike all shifting directions for Tiptronic and PDK transmissions used by
Porsche, the shifting direction used on the new 911 GT3 is based on professional
motor sports. As a result, upshifts “+” take place backwards and downshifts “–” take
place forwards. This shifting direction is used because of the ergonomic and physical
conditions involved in a gear change.
If the driver shifts down in gears while driving on the race circuit and braking sharply
coming into a bend, forward downshifting supports ergonomic gear changes in accordance
with the law relating to the mass moment of inertia. The same applies when
accelerating out of a bend. In this case, the mass moment of inertia supports backward
upshifting.
The PDK functions, including gear indicator, are displayed in the tachometer on the
instrument cluster as on the 911 Carrera models. The actuation direction of the manual
shift display “+” and “–” was modified due to the change in shifting direction specific
to the GT3. The omission of the SPORT and SPORT PLUS function used on the
911 Carrera models and enhancement of the display strategy means that no PDK
functions are displayed in the SportDesign steering wheel on the new 911 GT3.

In addition to the short gear ratios and the short actuation travel of the shift paddles,
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) is characterized above all by its unique gearshift
strategies and its short response and shifting times (including “lightning shifts”).
These characteristics ensure a performance-oriented gearshift behavior with particularly
sporty gear changes. The most important driving functions of the Porsche Doppelkupplung
(PDK) are based on the strategies of the current 911 Carrera models.
For differentiation and in order to adapt to the particularly sporty character of the
new 911 GT3, new functions have been introduced and modified functions and specific
fine-tuning measures implemented.
The following main development objectives were taken into account here:
• Increasing performance
• Reducing complexity
• Improving interaction between driver and vehicle
• Enhancing emotionality
Increased performance is achieved with the following features:
• Lightning shifts with very short response and shifting times
• Performance-oriented adaptation of gear preselection
Reduced complexity is achieved with the following features:
• No special functions, such as Coasting, Auto Start Stop, ECO upshifts
• Two driving modes: SPORT (basic setting) and “PDK SPORT”
• Special functions, such as Launch Control, are available irrespective of driving
mode
• No kickdown
Increased interaction between driver and vehicle is achieved with the following features:
• Selector-lever position “M” as an uncompromisingly manual shift function
• “M” with no automatic shift functions
• “M” with maximum acceptance of gearshift commands even during extreme engine
speed-oriented driving
• “Paddle Neutral” with additional function based on a conventional clutch pedal
Enhanced emotionality is achieved with the following features:
• Adaptation of the basic gearshift strategy to performance-oriented driving dynamics
without additional actuation of driving mode buttons
• Adaptation of the one-touch direction on the selector lever to motor sports
• Possibility of driving off with increased wheel slip with “Paddle Neutral”
• Possibility of influencing driving dynamics individually with “Paddle Neutral”
• No crawling without pressing the accelerator pedal

Jimmy-D 03-22-2019 02:24 AM

I would wait for the next GT4 which will be out shortly.

You will be in the $110,000 range and will love it

Kg11 03-22-2019 02:40 AM


Originally Posted by Jimmy-D (Post 15720534)
I would wait for the next GT4 which will be out shortly.

You will be in the $110,000 range and will love it

yeah, but I don't know anyone and am not part of the "in" crowd! I don't think many people can just walk in and buy one of these: at least that was the case 1st time around.


Kg11 03-22-2019 02:43 AM


Originally Posted by Bobby 911 (Post 15720467)


i looked a couple of weeks ago and there were two at 110 and one at 112. They probably sold. But at 115 you shouldn’t have trouble coming out at 110. And with a great warranty. Even at 115, that’s a lot of car for the money. Basically gt4 and a bag of chips money.

Wow, I didn't realize they were that cheap. I checked on one at Porsche Minneapolis (basically a nice warranty car) and they wouldn't budge at $120k w/warranty, or $116k without.

I am in consumer real estate, and things are really ramping up all of the sudden: spring, interest rates dropping, the market righting itself: I am not sure people think the sky is falling and that they need to unload their toys. People were panicking a few months ago!

If I could find one for $105k, I would be over the moon, but $115k seems more realistic right now.

Kg11 03-22-2019 02:45 AM


Originally Posted by vodavoda (Post 15720516)
It all depends how happy you want to make your wife :burnout: If you're going 3-pedal at your price point, the GT4 is your answer. If you want more grunt, more badazz stance, more etc., then GT3....the PDK in the GT3 is not the same as in a standard car, which IMO feels like a slush-box. I made the mistake of not wanting to drive a PDK GT3 because I'd driven other PDK models. Then I had time to kill and the dealer told me to take one out....wow, what a difference....way crisper, sportier, etc., not even close to the other models....drove it and bought it.
The point is, you need to drive one. You are in a win-win situation.
And:
Compared with the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) used on the current Porsche models,
the main development objectives for the PDK transmission on the new 911 GT3
were as follows:
• Improving performance
• Reducing complexity
• Motor sports-oriented operating strategy
• More intensive interaction between vehicle and driver
• Enhancing emotionality

These objectives were achieved by a complete overhaul of the gearshift functions
and strategies as well as the transmission ratios and controls.

Technical data
Transmission weight (wet, ready for installation) . . . . . . . . . . . .260 lbs. (117.5 kg)
Transmission weight (dry) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .243 lbs. (110.2 kg)
1st gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 3.750
2nd gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 2.381
3rd gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 1.720
4th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 1.344
5th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 1.114
6th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 0.957
7th gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 0.844
Reverse gear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 3.417
Final-drive ratio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i = 3.973
Basic transmission
The Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) was modified significantly based on the current
911 Carrera models in order to adapt it to the performance-oriented objectives of the
new 911 GT3. These modifications include, shorter transmission ratios, shift paddles
with a shorter shift throw and a more precise one-touch function, an improved sporty
shift feeling with performance-oriented shift programs and significantly shorter shift
and response times. In addition, the shifting direction for manual gear changes on the
selector lever in the center console has been adapted to suit the requirements for
professional motor sports. As a result, upshifts “+” take place backwards and downshifts
“–” take place forwards on the new 911 GT3.
The basic functional and mechanical features of the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
are the same as the tried-and-tested Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) used in the current
911 generation (991). Improvements on the new 911 GT3 include the oil supply
and lubrication of the individual gear wheel sets (especially 5th and 7th gear) to
ensure a reliable oil supply even when driving on race circuits while taking into
account the much higher lateral acceleration potential of the new 911 GT3. The use
of lighter gear wheels and gear wheel sets has also resulted in a weight saving of
approximately 4 lbs. ( 1.8 kg).
The final-drive ratio and the complete gear wheel set with all gear ratios from 1st to
7th gear are new for the 911 GT3. To improve driving performance, the new 911
GT3 therefore has gear ratios that are much shorter than on the 911 Carrera models.
These can be up to 9% shorter than on the 911 Carrera S, depending on the gear.
In addition, 7th gear is very much a driving gear for reaching top speed and not an
additional gear (overdrive) for reducing engine speeds while driving with a high-comfort
driving style as on the 911 Carrera models. Together with the 15% shorter finaldrive
ratio, the new 911 GT3 also has much shorter total gear ratios.

The selector lever gate was also adapted for the new 911 GT3. To visually differentiate
the particularly sporty character of the Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK), the selector
lever gate has a central double stripe in black. The trim surround of the selector
lever gate was also adapted. In addition to being more purist with no additional selector-
lever positions (P, R, N and D), the selector lever gate features a “GT3” logo and
on the left-hand side, the designations “+” and “–” in Red for manual gear selection.
The display of the selector-lever positions P, R, N and D on the selector-lever release
button and in the tachometer is unchanged.
The shifting direction for manual gear changes on the selector lever is completely
new. Unlike all shifting directions for Tiptronic and PDK transmissions used by
Porsche, the shifting direction used on the new 911 GT3 is based on professional
motor sports. As a result, upshifts “+” take place backwards and downshifts “–” take
place forwards. This shifting direction is used because of the ergonomic and physical
conditions involved in a gear change.
If the driver shifts down in gears while driving on the race circuit and braking sharply
coming into a bend, forward downshifting supports ergonomic gear changes in accordance
with the law relating to the mass moment of inertia. The same applies when
accelerating out of a bend. In this case, the mass moment of inertia supports backward
upshifting.
The PDK functions, including gear indicator, are displayed in the tachometer on the
instrument cluster as on the 911 Carrera models. The actuation direction of the manual
shift display “+” and “–” was modified due to the change in shifting direction specific
to the GT3. The omission of the SPORT and SPORT PLUS function used on the
911 Carrera models and enhancement of the display strategy means that no PDK
functions are displayed in the SportDesign steering wheel on the new 911 GT3.

In addition to the short gear ratios and the short actuation travel of the shift paddles,
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) is characterized above all by its unique gearshift
strategies and its short response and shifting times (including “lightning shifts”).
These characteristics ensure a performance-oriented gearshift behavior with particularly
sporty gear changes. The most important driving functions of the Porsche Doppelkupplung
(PDK) are based on the strategies of the current 911 Carrera models.
For differentiation and in order to adapt to the particularly sporty character of the
new 911 GT3, new functions have been introduced and modified functions and specific
fine-tuning measures implemented.
The following main development objectives were taken into account here:
• Increasing performance
• Reducing complexity
• Improving interaction between driver and vehicle
• Enhancing emotionality
Increased performance is achieved with the following features:
• Lightning shifts with very short response and shifting times
• Performance-oriented adaptation of gear preselection
Reduced complexity is achieved with the following features:
• No special functions, such as Coasting, Auto Start Stop, ECO upshifts
• Two driving modes: SPORT (basic setting) and “PDK SPORT”
• Special functions, such as Launch Control, are available irrespective of driving
mode
• No kickdown
Increased interaction between driver and vehicle is achieved with the following features:
• Selector-lever position “M” as an uncompromisingly manual shift function
• “M” with no automatic shift functions
• “M” with maximum acceptance of gearshift commands even during extreme engine
speed-oriented driving
• “Paddle Neutral” with additional function based on a conventional clutch pedal
Enhanced emotionality is achieved with the following features:
• Adaptation of the basic gearshift strategy to performance-oriented driving dynamics
without additional actuation of driving mode buttons
• Adaptation of the one-touch direction on the selector lever to motor sports
• Possibility of driving off with increased wheel slip with “Paddle Neutral”
• Possibility of influencing driving dynamics individually with “Paddle Neutral”
• No crawling without pressing the accelerator pedal

Thanks for all of that. The regular PDK (as we had on the 997) was pretty nice, but I would rather have had a manual on that car.

I hear gearing is long on the GT4: I assume the PDK takes care of this? On the GT4, it takes forever to hit the powerband in 2nd
I drove one a few times in Autocross practice and I always felt overgeared


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