Owner's Review: 911R vs. 991.2 GT3 (Manual)
03-21-2019, 01:24 AM
#91
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Mr Obvious says the best car is the car you drive
03-21-2019, 03:46 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
unotaz - great job kicking the hornets nest! lets go for a drive!
03-21-2019, 10:32 AM
#94
If I may add commentary on the various 911s you mentioned...
I wouldn't compare a 911R with a GT3 RS 4.0.
Very different design objectives for the two cars - one is the ultimate back to basics road going hot rod 911, and the other the ultimate road version of a race car. They are both ultimates and full of unique special features. For me, the 911R is the better choice as a special car that is also tremendous fun to drive on the road. I have no interest in driving a race car on the road.
Comparison with a GT3 Touring is more interesting.
The 911R and the GT3 Touring share similar design objectives - both are road oriented extremely sporty 911s. The 911R is collectible and has many more special features - carbon bodywork, light flywheel, aggressive LSD, etc but also costs about 2x today. I say, pick either based on your budget and enjoy.
Surprised to hear that you found the latest GT3 to have better engine performance. I would say that ultimate performance is almost identical except the 911R has much better initial response. The only same-source instrumented tests I could find were from Car and Driver magazine - which has the 911R 1 or 2 ticks faster to 60, 100 and 130 mph.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
Maybe I will vbox test mine when I have an opportunity...
Re: the 997 GT3 RS 3.8
this is to the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, what the Touring is to the 911R. Missing some of the most special features, not the ultimate, not collectible. But costs 1/2 as much for an experience that is much more than 1/2 of the 4.0.
And re: the latest 911 GT2 RS
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911.
In conclusion, the 911R and the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 are very special but the 911R is more to my taste.
the GT2 RS and the GT3 Touring - not so special and not for me.
and I cannot comment on the 996 GT3 RS - not having experienced one.
Overall, we are all very lucky to have such great cars to choose from. And most importantly, the health, time and means to enjoy them. Cheers everyone!
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phoebedee (10-15-2023)
03-21-2019, 01:01 PM
#95
Three Wheelin'
Well stated and a classy post. 
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Good thread and interesting reading unotaz!
If I may add commentary on the various 911s you mentioned...
I wouldn't compare a 911R with a GT3 RS 4.0.
Very different design objectives for the two cars - one is the ultimate back to basics road going hot rod 911, and the other the ultimate road version of a race car. They are both ultimates and full of unique special features. For me, the 911R is the better choice as a special car that is also tremendous fun to drive on the road. I have no interest in driving a race car on the road.
Comparison with a GT3 Touring is more interesting.
The 911R and the GT3 Touring share similar design objectives - both are road oriented extremely sporty 911s. The 911R is collectible and has many more special features - carbon bodywork, light flywheel, aggressive LSD, etc but also costs about 2x today. I say, pick either based on your budget and enjoy.
Surprised to hear that you found the latest GT3 to have better engine performance. I would say that ultimate performance is almost identical except the 911R has much better initial response. The only same-source instrumented tests I could find were from Car and Driver magazine - which has the 911R 1 or 2 ticks faster to 60, 100 and 130 mph.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
Maybe I will vbox test mine when I have an opportunity...
Re: the 997 GT3 RS 3.8
this is to the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, what the Touring is to the 911R. Missing some of the most special features, not the ultimate, not collectible. But costs 1/2 as much for an experience that is much more than 1/2 of the 4.0.
And re: the latest 911 GT2 RS
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911.
In conclusion, the 911R and the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 are very special but the 911R is more to my taste.
the GT2 RS and the GT3 Touring - not so special and not for me.
and I cannot comment on the 996 GT3 RS - not having experienced one.
Overall, we are all very lucky to have such great cars to choose from. And most importantly, the health, time and means to enjoy them. Cheers everyone!
If I may add commentary on the various 911s you mentioned...
I wouldn't compare a 911R with a GT3 RS 4.0.
Very different design objectives for the two cars - one is the ultimate back to basics road going hot rod 911, and the other the ultimate road version of a race car. They are both ultimates and full of unique special features. For me, the 911R is the better choice as a special car that is also tremendous fun to drive on the road. I have no interest in driving a race car on the road.
Comparison with a GT3 Touring is more interesting.
The 911R and the GT3 Touring share similar design objectives - both are road oriented extremely sporty 911s. The 911R is collectible and has many more special features - carbon bodywork, light flywheel, aggressive LSD, etc but also costs about 2x today. I say, pick either based on your budget and enjoy.
Surprised to hear that you found the latest GT3 to have better engine performance. I would say that ultimate performance is almost identical except the 911R has much better initial response. The only same-source instrumented tests I could find were from Car and Driver magazine - which has the 911R 1 or 2 ticks faster to 60, 100 and 130 mph.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
Maybe I will vbox test mine when I have an opportunity...
Re: the 997 GT3 RS 3.8
this is to the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, what the Touring is to the 911R. Missing some of the most special features, not the ultimate, not collectible. But costs 1/2 as much for an experience that is much more than 1/2 of the 4.0.
And re: the latest 911 GT2 RS
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911.
In conclusion, the 911R and the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 are very special but the 911R is more to my taste.
the GT2 RS and the GT3 Touring - not so special and not for me.
and I cannot comment on the 996 GT3 RS - not having experienced one.
Overall, we are all very lucky to have such great cars to choose from. And most importantly, the health, time and means to enjoy them. Cheers everyone!
03-21-2019, 01:13 PM
#96
Race Director
"And re: the latest 911 GT2 RS
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911."
No doubt the latest GT2 RS was an exercise to show that they(Porsche) can still be Top Dog when they feel it necessary. I think it is also a preview of what you can expect from the 992 RS - a little teaser to gauge demand and acceptance of the Turbo
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911."
No doubt the latest GT2 RS was an exercise to show that they(Porsche) can still be Top Dog when they feel it necessary. I think it is also a preview of what you can expect from the 992 RS - a little teaser to gauge demand and acceptance of the Turbo
03-21-2019, 03:38 PM
#97
Drifting
Thread Starter
03-21-2019, 09:40 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
Surprised that 996RS is in your list. Thanks for sharing!
04-30-2019, 04:12 PM
#101
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Nice write up. I'd love to own an R but the wallet and wife won't allow it. I just purchased a .2 Touring and it's a great car. I'm totally happy. TBH all of the cars described here sound awesome. Did Porsche make a bad GT car? I think not!
05-01-2019, 04:32 AM
#102
Drifting
Thread Starter
05-01-2019, 10:05 AM
#103
Good thread and interesting reading unotaz!
If I may add commentary on the various 911s you mentioned...
I wouldn't compare a 911R with a GT3 RS 4.0.
Very different design objectives for the two cars - one is the ultimate back to basics road going hot rod 911, and the other the ultimate road version of a race car. They are both ultimates and full of unique special features. For me, the 911R is the better choice as a special car that is also tremendous fun to drive on the road. I have no interest in driving a race car on the road.
Comparison with a GT3 Touring is more interesting.
The 911R and the GT3 Touring share similar design objectives - both are road oriented extremely sporty 911s. The 911R is collectible and has many more special features - carbon bodywork, light flywheel, aggressive LSD, etc but also costs about 2x today. I say, pick either based on your budget and enjoy.
Surprised to hear that you found the latest GT3 to have better engine performance. I would say that ultimate performance is almost identical except the 911R has much better initial response. The only same-source instrumented tests I could find were from Car and Driver magazine - which has the 911R 1 or 2 ticks faster to 60, 100 and 130 mph.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
Maybe I will vbox test mine when I have an opportunity...
Re: the 997 GT3 RS 3.8
this is to the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, what the Touring is to the 911R. Missing some of the most special features, not the ultimate, not collectible. But costs 1/2 as much for an experience that is much more than 1/2 of the 4.0.
And re: the latest 911 GT2 RS
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911.
In conclusion, the 911R and the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 are very special but the 911R is more to my taste.
the GT2 RS and the GT3 Touring - not so special and not for me.
and I cannot comment on the 996 GT3 RS - not having experienced one.
Overall, we are all very lucky to have such great cars to choose from. And most importantly, the health, time and means to enjoy them. Cheers everyone!
If I may add commentary on the various 911s you mentioned...
I wouldn't compare a 911R with a GT3 RS 4.0.
Very different design objectives for the two cars - one is the ultimate back to basics road going hot rod 911, and the other the ultimate road version of a race car. They are both ultimates and full of unique special features. For me, the 911R is the better choice as a special car that is also tremendous fun to drive on the road. I have no interest in driving a race car on the road.
Comparison with a GT3 Touring is more interesting.
The 911R and the GT3 Touring share similar design objectives - both are road oriented extremely sporty 911s. The 911R is collectible and has many more special features - carbon bodywork, light flywheel, aggressive LSD, etc but also costs about 2x today. I say, pick either based on your budget and enjoy.
Surprised to hear that you found the latest GT3 to have better engine performance. I would say that ultimate performance is almost identical except the 911R has much better initial response. The only same-source instrumented tests I could find were from Car and Driver magazine - which has the 911R 1 or 2 ticks faster to 60, 100 and 130 mph.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
Maybe I will vbox test mine when I have an opportunity...
Re: the 997 GT3 RS 3.8
this is to the 997 GT3 RS 4.0, what the Touring is to the 911R. Missing some of the most special features, not the ultimate, not collectible. But costs 1/2 as much for an experience that is much more than 1/2 of the 4.0.
And re: the latest 911 GT2 RS
The 911 GT2 RS feels much more modern than any of the aforementioned cars - 911R, 997 GT3 RS 3.8, 4.0, GT3 Touring. And then there is 700 HP. Even more shocking than the horsepower is how usable Porsche have made the GT2 RS. But while it was good fun driving one on the autobahn, on American roads the GT2 RS is a like a owning a grey hound in Manhattan. The car feels completely leashed and constrained having no place to run. And it is simply the latest in a series of big HP 911s that will one day be superseded by an even bigger HP 911.
In conclusion, the 911R and the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 are very special but the 911R is more to my taste.
the GT2 RS and the GT3 Touring - not so special and not for me.
and I cannot comment on the 996 GT3 RS - not having experienced one.
Overall, we are all very lucky to have such great cars to choose from. And most importantly, the health, time and means to enjoy them. Cheers everyone!
I read all the GT3 tests and found an interesting fact.
Car and Driver has the Touring model of the GT3 a full 0.5 seconds slower to 100 MPH than the Winged Manual GT3. (and 3 MPH slower in the 1/4 mile) That quite a lot of HP difference. Maybe the Touring is not the reincarnation of the R???
05-01-2019, 01:57 PM
#104
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
) But this result could also be a result of the test conditions (friction of the road, temperature, etc.)
05-01-2019, 02:44 PM
#105
The Touring's folding rear wing has no ram-air and has more drag while producing less downforce (there is a cost to being inconspicuous without a picnic table on the back of your car ) But this result could also be a result of the test conditions (friction of the road, temperature, etc.)
) But this result could also be a result of the test conditions (friction of the road, temperature, etc.)Best indication of power-to-drag is probably the factory quoted top speeds.
991.2 GT3 Touring Manual - 316 km/h
991.2 GT3 Winged PDK - 318 km/h
991.2 GT3 Winged Manual - 320 km/h
911R - 323 km/h
Porsche quoted top speeds are comparable for different models as they are quoted in the same standardized conditions - full laden weight, and at 40C ambient temperature.