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Owner's Review: 911R vs. 991.2 GT3 (Manual)

 
Old 03-18-2019, 12:07 PM
  #31  
sechsgang
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After having driven all the cars people are talking about here short of the 996gt3rs (which as they come over here are increasingly on my list and maybe one of the ONLY cars I'd sell my 911r for at some point), I still say that overall the 911r is my favorite modern Porsche. The 997 3rs.2 was a more hardcore sports car than the 911r and had quite a bit of soul, so I'm definitely partial to that when it comes to all out thrill but it was really a one sided car...I more often than not hated mine on normal roads, and when thats what you spend more time on (and have a cup car for the track), that becomes tiresome. The 911r is the only car since that which has really had a soul to me. I just took out a new, tuned gt2rs (so maybe 700 rear wheel horsepower) and aside from the raw speed, the experience was somewhat sedate, the car is all about the stats on paper. On a racetrack, speed with that kind of grip is amazing of course, but for 330k (forget about all the former markups)...you're in a brand spanking new 991.2 cup car going even faster and sweating your face off because the experience is so righteous, so that value gets kind of lost to me. The new GT3 is awesome in that its fast as hell, has a ton of grip and really holds its own against pretty much any supercar at twice the price, but unlike the 996 gt3, which OOZED character...the new GT3, aside from the redline which at 9k is obviously great is kind of just "another" GT car. So yeah, I'm right there with Unotaz on the R, I still beyond love mine.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:05 PM
  #32  
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Hmm, so now Porsche is making inferior GT cars compared to those in the past. Interesting.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:31 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Hmm, so now Porsche is making inferior GT cars compared to those in the past. Interesting.

Using the word "inferior" or "superior" is a shallow descriptor when it comes to these cars. Technology as it progresses over time is only ever "more advanced" as the technology that it supersedes. However, the element of "feel", "excitement" or "soul" (all of which have their nuanced meanings as they are most definitely subjective) almost always gets hampered or lessened as new technology enters every iteration of car, at least when it comes to Porsche. Is the motor of a 4.0 GT3 (any year), more advanced than the 2.7L motor in the 72 RS? Well duh, and it RIPS...but is it more "fun", "special" or as engaging to drive as the 72rs? Not necessarily...on the other side, you'll have people who wouldn't enjoy a 72 RS AT ALL, and the experience of the newest, latest and greatest is what they prefer more, which is totally fine as well!
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:44 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by sechsgang View Post
Using the word "inferior" or "superior" is a shallow descriptor when it comes to these cars. Technology as it progresses over time is only ever "more advanced" as the technology that it supersedes. However, the element of "feel", "excitement" or "soul" (all of which have their nuanced meanings as they are most definitely subjective) almost always gets hampered or lessened as new technology enters every iteration of car, at least when it comes to Porsche. Is the motor of a 4.0 GT3 (any year), more advanced than the 2.7L motor in the 72 RS? Well duh, and it RIPS...but is it more "fun", "special" or as engaging to drive as the 72rs? Not necessarily...on the other side, you'll have people who wouldn't enjoy a 72 RS AT ALL, and the experience of the newest, latest and greatest is what they prefer more, which is totally fine as well!
I understand your point. But what you are saying is the Porsche deliberately manufactured out feel, soul and excitement in their latest GT models. That just isn't so. Otherwise they would have continued to manufacture 996 GT3 4.0 or all the other oldies but goodie 911's and sold a ton of them.

Some car enthusiast like the old and I get that. But Porsche's of today are infinitely better than the Porsche's of yesteryear in every way including excitement, passion and soul.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:53 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I understand your point. But what you are saying is the Porsche deliberately manufactured out feel, soul and excitement in their latest GT models. That just isn't so. Otherwise they would have continued to manufacture 996 GT3 4.0 or all the other oldies but goodie 911's and sold a ton of them.

Some car enthusiast like the old and I get that. But Porsche's of today are infinitely better than the Porsche's of yesteryear in every way including excitement, passion and soul.
They are deliberately using the most advanced technology to put down lap times in order to rile people up and get them to place orders for the next model, and adhere to current emissions regulations all at the same time... that there is zero doubt of, whatsoever. To some, fighting on the track for every 10th of a second is still the most important thing to them and that chase could very well the most exciting aspect of the newer cars for them...but thats a very, very rare breed amongst today's consumers.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:54 PM
  #36  
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O
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I understand your point. But what you are saying is the Porsche deliberately manufactured out feel, soul and excitement in their latest GT models. That just isn't so. Otherwise they would have continued to manufacture 996 GT3 4.0 or all the other oldies but goodie 911's and sold a ton of them.
Porsche was forced to change away from many of their more feelsome and soulful attributes due to emissions, fuel efficiency and safety regulations. Things like mechanical fuel injection with 6 throttles and velocity stacks, lighter non impact bumpers and air cooling together with lightweight cars that require no power steering or brakes are not possible in the current climate (many were already impossible in 1974).

Many of the more recent changes (like the much larger sized 911 chassis, electric steering, etc.) were made to appeal to a wider audience, rather than just driving obsessives that comprised the early 911 buyers or to otherwise simply increase profits.


Last edited by GrantG; 03-18-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:12 PM
  #37  
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Steering feel seems to be getting more and more numb as time goes by, and that's certainly not improvement!
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:47 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Hmm, so now Porsche is making inferior GT cars compared to those in the past. Interesting.
what he said

I have never regretted moving into the next GT car.
the worst I have ever owned in terms of reliability was the 997.2 GT3RS....so many faulty designs that have failed by tracking the car.
the 991 Cars as far superior and more speed oriented. Gen 2 is quicker , no doubt.
Porsche didn’t forget the leaky Harley die hard crowd ....the test market was the R ....the mass production is a better car , the more I drive the touring the more I love it, it begs to be driven hard and everyone smiles including my teenage daughter.....
” They don’t make them worse or slower” go back and read Porsche philosophy....Evolution.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:51 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by malmasri View Post
” They don’t make them worse or slower” go back and read Porsche philosophy....Evolution.
I love my new GT3, but I can name many examples that would refute the above slogan (where the next car was worse, slower, or both)...

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Old 03-18-2019, 06:17 PM
  #40  
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I never drive with the rev matching on. I hate the Sport button, it artificially slows down the rev drop on upshift. HATE IT!

Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I wonder if the cables or actual shifter mechanism is different between the 911R and the GT3. I doubt it, but I can’t think of another reason why they would feel different.

Do you drive either with rev matching on?
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:23 PM
  #41  
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Porsche is not the only company doing this. Which car do you think is the better driver's car? F40 or the Enzo?

Which car do you think sound better? The 458 Speciale or the 488 Pista?

We live in a world with ever-changing emission standard and safety regulations. Manufacturers don't want to make an inferior car in terms of feel, feedback and emotion, but they are also the victim of the rules and regulations.

Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Hmm, so now Porsche is making inferior GT cars compared to those in the past. Interesting.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:25 PM
  #42  
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Absolutely. Any of the 997 generation GT cars has better steering feel than my 911R

Originally Posted by bluehorseshoe View Post
Steering feel seems to be getting more and more numb as time goes by, and that's certainly not improvement!
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:36 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by unotaz View Post
Absolutely. Any of the 997 generation GT cars has better steering feel than my 911R
Yes, and a really nice example of an old 911 with manual steering has far better feel than 997.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:53 PM
  #44  
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:09 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by malmasri View Post

what he said

I have never regretted moving into the next GT car.
the worst I have ever owned in terms of reliability was the 997.2 GT3RS....so many faulty designs that have failed by tracking the car.
the 991 Cars as far superior and more speed oriented. Gen 2 is quicker , no doubt.
Porsche didn’t forget the leaky Harley die hard crowd ....the test market was the R ....the mass production is a better car , the more I drive the touring the more I love it, it begs to be driven hard and everyone smiles including my teenage daughter.....
” They don’t make them worse or slower” go back and read Porsche philosophy....Evolution.


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