California lifestyle?
03-13-2019, 05:42 PM
#226
Rennlist Member
WOW, WOW, WOW! Thank ya'll for all of the great info! I didn't expect to get this many responses. My wife and I need to digest it all!
Our main reason for considering a move is weather. OKC weather just blows, especially the winter. My wife has an autoimmune disorder that's significantly worsened when its cold, so we are wanting to get somewhere warmer. We aren't sure if its just a vacation home during the winter months or a permanent home, hence why we are considering Palm Springs (we are big architecture fans).
The number of people, politics, traffic, taxes, etc are all things we are worried about in regards to California, esp the LA area which is where I seem to have the best job opportunity. Ventura is also a possible landing spot for work. Just after a quick skim of responses, I am a bit disappointed to hear that its hard to get out of LA traffic to get to the good drives even on the weekends. Oh, and I looked at the Santa Monica homes on Redfin. Holey smokes!
Our main reason for considering a move is weather. OKC weather just blows, especially the winter. My wife has an autoimmune disorder that's significantly worsened when its cold, so we are wanting to get somewhere warmer. We aren't sure if its just a vacation home during the winter months or a permanent home, hence why we are considering Palm Springs (we are big architecture fans).
The number of people, politics, traffic, taxes, etc are all things we are worried about in regards to California, esp the LA area which is where I seem to have the best job opportunity. Ventura is also a possible landing spot for work. Just after a quick skim of responses, I am a bit disappointed to hear that its hard to get out of LA traffic to get to the good drives even on the weekends. Oh, and I looked at the Santa Monica homes on Redfin. Holey smokes!
From my patio in the background are snow cap mountains along with a view of the beach and ocean.
03-13-2019, 06:37 PM
#227
03-13-2019, 07:07 PM
#228
Race Director
I keep picturing William H. Macy reenacting his role in Fargo right now. lol
03-13-2019, 07:09 PM
#229
Race Director
Originally Posted by tqevo
Keep telling yourself that.
I didn't know Porsche was made in CA
I didn't know Porsche was made in CA
I'm going to call it as I see it, and what I see in this convo is people who are make comments like this have a bit of an envy problem which causes them to downplay the California reality. I really don't get it.. the state has issues, but as others have stated, it's also one of the most desirable places to live in the world, and it's the cradle of innovation. Just like anything in life which is exceptional, it's pay to play at an almost exponential level which comes with massive downsides also.
But to deny the existence of the exceptionalism of California, or to equate it with other areas with wishful phrases like "it's just like ... Iowa/Alabama/texas/north Dakota except for_________" just smacks of blinding envy or willful ignorance of reality. Either move there or don't, but to downplay it means youre either uninformed or pained by reality.
Those of us who decided to move to Cali, made the often painful sacrifice to elevate our game so that we could compete here, be part of the leading, often bleeding edge, and enjoy what this place offers. We might have less Porsches in the garage (some of us) or not living in 10,000 homes for $500k... but for the moment, I wouldn't trade the energy and beauty of this place for the world.
When I was a kid in Italy, I had a poster of the golden gate on my wall.. now I stare at the real thing every evening during sunset from my home-office. the reality which emerged from my "California Dreaming" has been infinitely better than I had ever hoped. (Except for the girls.. the movies lied about those)
Last edited by CAlexio; 03-13-2019 at 07:31 PM.
03-13-2019, 07:39 PM
#230
Look man, you can't deny that most of what is moving the world, comes out of California. yes you're right Porsche's aren't, but almost everything which you use today, and what you don't yet know you'll be using tomorrow, is likely created by someone in California who will influence your life, sometimes you won't even know it.
I'm going to call it as I see it, and what I see in this convo is people who are make comments like this have a bit of an envy problem which causes them to downplay the California reality. I really don't get it.. the state has issues, but as others have stated, it's also one of the most desirable places to live in the world, and it's the cradle of innovation. Just like anything in life which is exceptional, it's pay to play at an almost exponential level which comes with massive downsides also.
But to deny the existence of the exceptionalism of California, or to equate it with other areas with wishful phrases like "it's just like ... Iowa/Alabama/texas/north Dakota except for_________" just smacks of blinding envy or willful ignorance of reality. Either move there or don't, but to downplay it means youre either uninformed or pained by reality.
Those of us who decided to move to Cali, made the often painful sacrifice to elevate our game so that we could compete here, and enjoy what this place offers.
I'm going to call it as I see it, and what I see in this convo is people who are make comments like this have a bit of an envy problem which causes them to downplay the California reality. I really don't get it.. the state has issues, but as others have stated, it's also one of the most desirable places to live in the world, and it's the cradle of innovation. Just like anything in life which is exceptional, it's pay to play at an almost exponential level which comes with massive downsides also.
But to deny the existence of the exceptionalism of California, or to equate it with other areas with wishful phrases like "it's just like ... Iowa/Alabama/texas/north Dakota except for_________" just smacks of blinding envy or willful ignorance of reality. Either move there or don't, but to downplay it means youre either uninformed or pained by reality.
Those of us who decided to move to Cali, made the often painful sacrifice to elevate our game so that we could compete here, and enjoy what this place offers.
I travel every month globally ( Europe and Asia ) mostly. So many times people from these places would love to move here if given an opportunity. People with means have already done so ( recent migration of affluent Chinese ) and For several others it remains aspirational goal. My German expat colleagues who move here never go back ! In fact SoCal branch of our office is the toughest one to get any Expat assignments.
I always look forward to my European trips as I take timeout during weekend downtime to explore history culture etc. but it’s always fantastic to come back to beautiful SoCal sunshine and beaches. I have lived in total of 5 states in USA and 2 countries. We finally chose California as our home despite all it’s obvious flaws.
Last edited by vf430; 03-14-2019 at 10:38 AM.
03-13-2019, 07:39 PM
#231
Rennlist Member
a timely article about how population in california is just changing in nature, as low and middle class leave, and wealthy enter. This article is especially relevant to me. I'm not wealthy, in the sense that I still need to work, and i can't live off of investments, so I can't "retire" yet, and the costs of living here are quite high. However, it's the opportunity i find here, in the form of investors, innovative thinkers, high level collaborators, which keep me here, in addition of course to the incredible quality of life. The article sums it up quite well.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
"
Sure, there are anecdotes galore. Everyone seems to know someone who has fled California to dodge its high taxes. But there’s no wholesale bolting of the rich.
“Substantially more rich people are moving into California than moving out,” says Cristobal Young, a Cornell University sociology professor. He teamed with others at Stanford University’s Center on Poverty and Inequality to write a research paper on “Millionaire Migration in California.” State demographers, digging into federal census data, found that significantly more people earning above $125,000 were moving into California than were leaving. And more earning less than $75,000 were taking off. “They want to be where the action is,” Young says. “There’s more opportunity in California. There are a lot of ways to make a lot of money in California, more than other places. A lot of that is tech, but it’s a diverse economy….“People who want to make money tend to live where other high-income people are. It’s one thing to say, ‘I’m going to leave California to save money on taxes.’ But that means leaving clients, collaborators, investors, friends….“It’s not that rich people are moving to Reno and Nevada,” Young adds. “They’re moving to San Francisco and making living costs miserable for a lot of people."
In the January state budget document, there also was this observation: “Over time the state…has become more educated on average due to outward migration of less educated residents…and inward migration of more educated people.”
So the wealthy are not fleeing California in droves even though they’re being hammered by state income taxes. The top 5% of earners pays two-thirds of the tax. The bottom 80% pays less than 11%. That’s just bad tax policy because it leans too heavily on rich people’s capital gains that plummet during a recession.
I can attest to this personally.. almost everyone I meet here is really really smart. The random drunk girl at the bar is a PhD... you can turn in the other direction and someone is deep into "drunk" conversation about biotech, cancer treatments, or some other tech. and these are knowledgeable and in-depth convos. you simply can't this concentration of intelligence anywhere in the world. When i travel outside of the bay area, it's starkly apparent how the average individual is relatively uneducated, focused on sports or some other diversion, and simply not able to maintain the level of convo you get from the "average" bay area encounter. This is not an elitist type of comment, it's simply the self-evident truth, and a fascinating example of the Pareto Effect in action.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
"
Sure, there are anecdotes galore. Everyone seems to know someone who has fled California to dodge its high taxes. But there’s no wholesale bolting of the rich.
“Substantially more rich people are moving into California than moving out,” says Cristobal Young, a Cornell University sociology professor. He teamed with others at Stanford University’s Center on Poverty and Inequality to write a research paper on “Millionaire Migration in California.” State demographers, digging into federal census data, found that significantly more people earning above $125,000 were moving into California than were leaving. And more earning less than $75,000 were taking off. “They want to be where the action is,” Young says. “There’s more opportunity in California. There are a lot of ways to make a lot of money in California, more than other places. A lot of that is tech, but it’s a diverse economy….“People who want to make money tend to live where other high-income people are. It’s one thing to say, ‘I’m going to leave California to save money on taxes.’ But that means leaving clients, collaborators, investors, friends….“It’s not that rich people are moving to Reno and Nevada,” Young adds. “They’re moving to San Francisco and making living costs miserable for a lot of people."
In the January state budget document, there also was this observation: “Over time the state…has become more educated on average due to outward migration of less educated residents…and inward migration of more educated people.”
So the wealthy are not fleeing California in droves even though they’re being hammered by state income taxes. The top 5% of earners pays two-thirds of the tax. The bottom 80% pays less than 11%. That’s just bad tax policy because it leans too heavily on rich people’s capital gains that plummet during a recession.
I can attest to this personally.. almost everyone I meet here is really really smart. The random drunk girl at the bar is a PhD... you can turn in the other direction and someone is deep into "drunk" conversation about biotech, cancer treatments, or some other tech. and these are knowledgeable and in-depth convos. you simply can't this concentration of intelligence anywhere in the world. When i travel outside of the bay area, it's starkly apparent how the average individual is relatively uneducated, focused on sports or some other diversion, and simply not able to maintain the level of convo you get from the "average" bay area encounter. This is not an elitist type of comment, it's simply the self-evident truth, and a fascinating example of the Pareto Effect in action.
Look man, you can't deny that most of what is moving the world, comes out of California. yes you're right Porsche's aren't, but almost everything which you use today, and what you don't yet know you'll be using tomorrow, is likely created by someone in California who will influence your life, sometimes you won't even know it.
I'm going to call it as I see it, and what I see in this convo is people who are make comments like this have a bit of an envy problem which causes them to downplay the California reality. I really don't get it.. the state has issues, but as others have stated, it's also one of the most desirable places to live in the world, and it's the cradle of innovation. Just like anything in life which is exceptional, it's pay to play at an almost exponential level which comes with massive downsides also.
But to deny the existence of the exceptionalism of California, or to equate it with other areas with wishful phrases like "it's just like ... Iowa/Alabama/texas/north Dakota except for_________" just smacks of blinding envy or willful ignorance of reality. Either move there or don't, but to downplay it means youre either uninformed or pained by reality.
Those of us who decided to move to Cali, made the often painful sacrifice to elevate our game so that we could compete here, and enjoy what this place offers.
I'm going to call it as I see it, and what I see in this convo is people who are make comments like this have a bit of an envy problem which causes them to downplay the California reality. I really don't get it.. the state has issues, but as others have stated, it's also one of the most desirable places to live in the world, and it's the cradle of innovation. Just like anything in life which is exceptional, it's pay to play at an almost exponential level which comes with massive downsides also.
But to deny the existence of the exceptionalism of California, or to equate it with other areas with wishful phrases like "it's just like ... Iowa/Alabama/texas/north Dakota except for_________" just smacks of blinding envy or willful ignorance of reality. Either move there or don't, but to downplay it means youre either uninformed or pained by reality.
Those of us who decided to move to Cali, made the often painful sacrifice to elevate our game so that we could compete here, and enjoy what this place offers.
03-13-2019, 07:59 PM
#232
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
I personally keep my thoughts on what CAlexio mentioned private as it tends to hit a nerve with others but I will say that he is not wrong. I actually agree with most of what he said. I just don't go around saying it because it tends to **** people off lol.
03-13-2019, 08:32 PM
#233
Race Car
The only people that are leaving are the poor and middle class. This mass exodus of CA that is talked about is simply not accurate. CA is seeing an increase in population among those earning above 110k a year (which is still a bit low IMO to live here comfortably):
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
I personally keep my thoughts on what CAlexio mentioned private as it tends to hit a nerve with others but I will say that he is not wrong. I actually agree with most of what he said. I just don't go around saying it because it tends to **** people off lol.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
I personally keep my thoughts on what CAlexio mentioned private as it tends to hit a nerve with others but I will say that he is not wrong. I actually agree with most of what he said. I just don't go around saying it because it tends to **** people off lol.
Any BTW the poor and the illegals ARE NOT leaving. They are actually coming in the tens of thousands for the free ride KA. is willing to provide.
03-13-2019, 08:49 PM
#234
Race Director
Originally Posted by Brandon_
I don't deny the natural beauty of California and the successful tech industry but your typical smug liberal attitude is part of why people don't want to move there and are ready to leave.
03-13-2019, 08:50 PM
#235
Yeah, that's just not true. I know a bunch of well to do people who have left the State in the past few years and other who are planning to do so at some point in the future. There is definitely an exodus going on, but there's an offsetting influx of people filling the tech job growth. Many of them are paying $1,500 a month to live in someone's kid's bedroom, but they're coming.
Just because the net change isn't strongly negative, doesn't mean people aren't leaving. I love it here, but the chance I retire here is no better than 50 percent.
Just because the net change isn't strongly negative, doesn't mean people aren't leaving. I love it here, but the chance I retire here is no better than 50 percent.
03-13-2019, 08:52 PM
#236
The weather is literally the best in The World.
Near the beach not too hot, not too cold, no humidity and very few bugs.
Of course the place is crowded, read the above statement.
Near the beach not too hot, not too cold, no humidity and very few bugs.
Of course the place is crowded, read the above statement.
03-13-2019, 08:53 PM
#237
03-13-2019, 08:53 PM
#238
Rennlist Member
The only people that are leaving are the poor and middle class. This mass exodus of CA that is talked about is simply not accurate. CA is seeing an increase in population among those earning above 110k a year (which is still a bit low IMO to live here comfortably):
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
I personally keep my thoughts on what CAlexio mentioned private as it tends to hit a nerve with others but I will say that he is not wrong. I actually agree with most of what he said. I just don't go around saying it because it tends to **** people off lol.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...L4-QOfV3FlJcts
I personally keep my thoughts on what CAlexio mentioned private as it tends to hit a nerve with others but I will say that he is not wrong. I actually agree with most of what he said. I just don't go around saying it because it tends to **** people off lol.
https://www.modbee.com/opinion/article226101685.html800,000 people are about to flee New York and California because of taxes, say economists
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/8000...-of-taxes.htmlMillionaires Flee California After Tax Hike
https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrick.../#7f1252b54189
03-13-2019, 09:06 PM
#239
Rennlist Member
What a pity, rather than contribute to the conversation with facts or thought-out reasoning, all you could come up with was an emotional and uninformed ad-hominem insult. I won't follow your example, I'm sure you're a nice person, just not while hiding behind a keyboard maybe?
When you say "we are the most intelligent people in the country and everywhere else I go, people are just not that smart", is not a very good contribution. Its an elitist attitude that most think is ugly.
There are many different types of intelligence. Because someone has a phd doesn't necessarily make them intelligent. It makes them studied and a professional in their field. Also there is the fact that this is your perception. Without knowing you personally and your level of intelligence there is no way to know for sure just how smart the average person you converse with is.
03-13-2019, 09:16 PM
#240
