Production numbers for GT2 RS?
03-14-2019, 12:07 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Whoopsy, you forgot something- you have a public identity. I know your real life name and you know mine. That changes the equation. Without googling- how many '918' dudes or 'dealer GM/ owners' does the average GT3 guy know? Very few extend themselves publicly. By being in and running the inner circle group you guys all know what went down, what was offered etc. I respect that your have a very unique insight.
I will say that sadly I did not buy a 918 for myself at the time as the AWD and curb weight were a little worrying, along with production numbers. It was a mistake as I would have saved money on a few purchases by having earlier access to the program. Oh well. I kept my CGT through the 918 times and it kept me warm at night.
For the record- so we can clear up this 170 vs 188 vs 189 etc on how many 918's went to dealers...
A real truth is that there are at least 10 people in Usa that decided to go DOUBLE Vip and buy two 918's initially. I know 3 of them personally and I don't know everyone so I'm theorizing it's more than just the guys in my small circle. Could be more than 10. It's a power move to have done it. Some of know one of them, some might know more than I do.
In regards to the multipoint guys- there are 2-3 groups ( big boys ) that have more than 4-5 porsche stores each. There might be a few more that have 2-3 porsche stores. So safe to say 40-50 dealerships out of the ~190 (will be a few more open soon, you might have not counted South Orlando) are owned by a small cadre. Penske, AutoNation come to mind as having more than a handful each. AutoNation has a few huge ones, and a lot of selling power.
But I don't know if Mike Jackson or The Captain has more than one 918.
Either way- the reality is that there is a 918 worth of Nordscheliefe lapping speed in a Gt2RS which has the .25 on the dollar price tag. It's an amazing car. The 3RS is the fastest NA 911 of all time. Two incredible cars.
Do you want rarity or availability? If you could have 911's be more rare or more available...and either front or backend pricing was affected...how would that affect your desire to purchase? Cake on plate or cake in tummy. Hard choices abound for the factory.
Dealers all do their own thing, and some customers DO actually back out.
Last reasons for backouts Recently:
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
I will say that sadly I did not buy a 918 for myself at the time as the AWD and curb weight were a little worrying, along with production numbers. It was a mistake as I would have saved money on a few purchases by having earlier access to the program. Oh well. I kept my CGT through the 918 times and it kept me warm at night.
For the record- so we can clear up this 170 vs 188 vs 189 etc on how many 918's went to dealers...
A real truth is that there are at least 10 people in Usa that decided to go DOUBLE Vip and buy two 918's initially. I know 3 of them personally and I don't know everyone so I'm theorizing it's more than just the guys in my small circle. Could be more than 10. It's a power move to have done it. Some of know one of them, some might know more than I do.
In regards to the multipoint guys- there are 2-3 groups ( big boys ) that have more than 4-5 porsche stores each. There might be a few more that have 2-3 porsche stores. So safe to say 40-50 dealerships out of the ~190 (will be a few more open soon, you might have not counted South Orlando) are owned by a small cadre. Penske, AutoNation come to mind as having more than a handful each. AutoNation has a few huge ones, and a lot of selling power.
But I don't know if Mike Jackson or The Captain has more than one 918.
Either way- the reality is that there is a 918 worth of Nordscheliefe lapping speed in a Gt2RS which has the .25 on the dollar price tag. It's an amazing car. The 3RS is the fastest NA 911 of all time. Two incredible cars.
Do you want rarity or availability? If you could have 911's be more rare or more available...and either front or backend pricing was affected...how would that affect your desire to purchase? Cake on plate or cake in tummy. Hard choices abound for the factory.
Dealers all do their own thing, and some customers DO actually back out.
Last reasons for backouts Recently:
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
And my forums handle is know into Porsche, they know what I posted as they do read,
There is one guy in the USA that has 4 cars, I believe 2 guys have 3. and yes, there are more than 10 that has 2. Oh and there is this one talk show host that bought one yet no one has see him with the car ever. Oh and the record is 20 cars to one client, not in the US though.
03-14-2019, 01:28 PM
#47
03-14-2019, 01:47 PM
#48
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, NYC, Zurich
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So much spin in your response, I got a wicked case of vertigo while reading it.
1. The correct venue for the GT4 unveiling was known by several people in very late Spring of 2018 and it hasn't changed since then. It was not a last minute switch just a few weeks before the LA Auto show, as you claim. Those events are planned a year or more in advance, and require an enormous amount of preparation and logistics handling.
2. Even CJ’s math, which is difficult to decipher, seems to suggest that at least 50 stores out of 188/189/whatever total are owned "by a small cadre.” 189 - 50 is 139 unique individual principals in the US who own all the stores. So how’s it possible that 170 individual 918 VIP’s are dealer principals? There aren’t even a total of 170 unique dealer principals in the entire US. The truth is, the number of 918 VIP’s that are dealer principals is just a very small fraction of that.
4. No one is disputing that some non-dealer 918 VIP’s bought multiple 918’s. Not sure why you guys are even mentioning that.
5. Anyone can verify the 918 VIP rules. Simply go to your dealer, ask them to search for the rules in PPN and print it. It'll take one minute. Dealers have a 6-month hold with a 2X chargeback. Others have a 1-year hold. Everything you said about the rules surrounding the dealers was wrong. Like, literally every single thing you wrote.
6. The reason there are so many GT2RS’s and GT3RS’s for sale right now has absolutely NOTHING to do with dealer principals flipping their 918 VIP allocation because they supposedly have no consequences; that’s just dumb anti-dealer conspiracy.
There was a huge percentage of GT cars produced in the late 4th quarter. Many of them were pre-sold for over MSRP to legit clients over the entire second half of 2018, and had scheduled deliveries for Q1 of 2019. When the cars had finally arrived, the market had changed. GT2RS’s were no longer $100K over, and GT3RS’s were no longer $40/50k over, so the buyers cancelled their agreement. Now, there’s a bunch for sale which had been pre-sold to real clients, but canceled. Owners and GM’s are instructing their sales staffs to dump a few of them closer to MSRP to manage inventory dollars. No more GT cars are being produced for the US (with exception to a very small, insignificant number of 3RS’s trickling), so the sales departments are not overly concerned about the temporary supply. Besides, as soon as the price lowers to near MSRP, there’s a line of 10 people waiting. However, since GM’s and owners control the store, some cars are being blown out to manage inventory dollars. There’s no new shipments coming, so a lot of people believe the price will climb back up in 60 days with the start of summer — that’s why no one is really overly concerned. I have no guess or interest in which direction the price will go.
7. Who I am is irrelevant. If you don’t believe me, then don’t believe me. If you want to believe Porsche put together the entire LA Auto Show, including all the logistics and video production required for it within just a few weeks, knock yourself out. If you want to believe Lars Kern (who actually helped test the Michelin R's for the RS) has no idea what tires he’s running on his famous record lap, knock yourself out. That guy can tell you what tires are on his car within two chicanes. If you want to believe there are more dealer principal 918 VIP’s than there are individual dealers, knock yourself out.
It’s just another perspective in this anti-dealer echo chamber, and it’s your choice to believe what you wish.
1. The correct venue for the GT4 unveiling was known by several people in very late Spring of 2018 and it hasn't changed since then. It was not a last minute switch just a few weeks before the LA Auto show, as you claim. Those events are planned a year or more in advance, and require an enormous amount of preparation and logistics handling.
2. Even CJ’s math, which is difficult to decipher, seems to suggest that at least 50 stores out of 188/189/whatever total are owned "by a small cadre.” 189 - 50 is 139 unique individual principals in the US who own all the stores. So how’s it possible that 170 individual 918 VIP’s are dealer principals? There aren’t even a total of 170 unique dealer principals in the entire US. The truth is, the number of 918 VIP’s that are dealer principals is just a very small fraction of that.
4. No one is disputing that some non-dealer 918 VIP’s bought multiple 918’s. Not sure why you guys are even mentioning that.
5. Anyone can verify the 918 VIP rules. Simply go to your dealer, ask them to search for the rules in PPN and print it. It'll take one minute. Dealers have a 6-month hold with a 2X chargeback. Others have a 1-year hold. Everything you said about the rules surrounding the dealers was wrong. Like, literally every single thing you wrote.
6. The reason there are so many GT2RS’s and GT3RS’s for sale right now has absolutely NOTHING to do with dealer principals flipping their 918 VIP allocation because they supposedly have no consequences; that’s just dumb anti-dealer conspiracy.
There was a huge percentage of GT cars produced in the late 4th quarter. Many of them were pre-sold for over MSRP to legit clients over the entire second half of 2018, and had scheduled deliveries for Q1 of 2019. When the cars had finally arrived, the market had changed. GT2RS’s were no longer $100K over, and GT3RS’s were no longer $40/50k over, so the buyers cancelled their agreement. Now, there’s a bunch for sale which had been pre-sold to real clients, but canceled. Owners and GM’s are instructing their sales staffs to dump a few of them closer to MSRP to manage inventory dollars. No more GT cars are being produced for the US (with exception to a very small, insignificant number of 3RS’s trickling), so the sales departments are not overly concerned about the temporary supply. Besides, as soon as the price lowers to near MSRP, there’s a line of 10 people waiting. However, since GM’s and owners control the store, some cars are being blown out to manage inventory dollars. There’s no new shipments coming, so a lot of people believe the price will climb back up in 60 days with the start of summer — that’s why no one is really overly concerned. I have no guess or interest in which direction the price will go.
7. Who I am is irrelevant. If you don’t believe me, then don’t believe me. If you want to believe Porsche put together the entire LA Auto Show, including all the logistics and video production required for it within just a few weeks, knock yourself out. If you want to believe Lars Kern (who actually helped test the Michelin R's for the RS) has no idea what tires he’s running on his famous record lap, knock yourself out. That guy can tell you what tires are on his car within two chicanes. If you want to believe there are more dealer principal 918 VIP’s than there are individual dealers, knock yourself out.
It’s just another perspective in this anti-dealer echo chamber, and it’s your choice to believe what you wish.
03-14-2019, 01:52 PM
#49
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last reasons for backouts Recently:
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
03-14-2019, 06:55 PM
#50
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
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I mention the math so we have a relevant factual basis of the ~300 usa 918's and what the remaining number of people with allocations for the program are.
Solving for X, you'd have to get both sides of the equations for all relevant factors. So, DP's, 918 VIPS, collectors, known flippers all relevant.
Regardless of all these numbers...porsche is definitely bringing more than 300 GT2/GT3 type cars to the USA for the imminent speedster we have still yet to see published official % of worldwide production to USA. Still waiting to see when we can spec cars
Solving for X, you'd have to get both sides of the equations for all relevant factors. So, DP's, 918 VIPS, collectors, known flippers all relevant.
Regardless of all these numbers...porsche is definitely bringing more than 300 GT2/GT3 type cars to the USA for the imminent speedster we have still yet to see published official % of worldwide production to USA. Still waiting to see when we can spec cars
03-15-2019, 12:56 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
So much spin in your response, I got a wicked case of vertigo while reading it.
1. The correct venue for the GT4 unveiling was known by several people in very late Spring of 2018 and it hasn't changed since then. It was not a last minute switch just a few weeks before the LA Auto show, as you claim. Those events are planned a year or more in advance, and require an enormous amount of preparation and logistics handling.
2. Even CJ’s math, which is difficult to decipher, seems to suggest that at least 50 stores out of 188/189/whatever total are owned "by a small cadre.” 189 - 50 is 139 unique individual principals in the US who own all the stores. So how’s it possible that 170 individual 918 VIP’s are dealer principals? There aren’t even a total of 170 unique dealer principals in the entire US. The truth is, the number of 918 VIP’s that are dealer principals is just a very small fraction of that.
4. No one is disputing that some non-dealer 918 VIP’s bought multiple 918’s. Not sure why you guys are even mentioning that.
5. Anyone can verify the 918 VIP rules. Simply go to your dealer, ask them to search for the rules in PPN and print it. It'll take one minute. Dealers have a 6-month hold with a 2X chargeback. Others have a 1-year hold. Everything you said about the rules surrounding the dealers was wrong. Like, literally every single thing you wrote.
6. The reason there are so many GT2RS’s and GT3RS’s for sale right now has absolutely NOTHING to do with dealer principals flipping their 918 VIP allocation because they supposedly have no consequences; that’s just dumb anti-dealer conspiracy.
There was a huge percentage of GT cars produced in the late 4th quarter. Many of them were pre-sold for over MSRP to legit clients over the entire second half of 2018, and had scheduled deliveries for Q1 of 2019. When the cars had finally arrived, the market had changed. GT2RS’s were no longer $100K over, and GT3RS’s were no longer $40/50k over, so the buyers cancelled their agreement. Now, there’s a bunch for sale which had been pre-sold to real clients, but canceled. Owners and GM’s are instructing their sales staffs to dump a few of them closer to MSRP to manage inventory dollars. No more GT cars are being produced for the US (with exception to a very small, insignificant number of 3RS’s trickling), so the sales departments are not overly concerned about the temporary supply. Besides, as soon as the price lowers to near MSRP, there’s a line of 10 people waiting. However, since GM’s and owners control the store, some cars are being blown out to manage inventory dollars. There’s no new shipments coming, so a lot of people believe the price will climb back up in 60 days with the start of summer — that’s why no one is really overly concerned. I have no guess or interest in which direction the price will go.
7. Who I am is irrelevant. If you don’t believe me, then don’t believe me. If you want to believe Porsche put together the entire LA Auto Show, including all the logistics and video production required for it within just a few weeks, knock yourself out. If you want to believe Lars Kern (who actually helped test the Michelin R's for the RS) has no idea what tires he’s running on his famous record lap, knock yourself out. That guy can tell you what tires are on his car within two chicanes. If you want to believe there are more dealer principal 918 VIP’s than there are individual dealers, knock yourself out.
It’s just another perspective in this anti-dealer echo chamber, and it’s your choice to believe what you wish.
1. The correct venue for the GT4 unveiling was known by several people in very late Spring of 2018 and it hasn't changed since then. It was not a last minute switch just a few weeks before the LA Auto show, as you claim. Those events are planned a year or more in advance, and require an enormous amount of preparation and logistics handling.
2. Even CJ’s math, which is difficult to decipher, seems to suggest that at least 50 stores out of 188/189/whatever total are owned "by a small cadre.” 189 - 50 is 139 unique individual principals in the US who own all the stores. So how’s it possible that 170 individual 918 VIP’s are dealer principals? There aren’t even a total of 170 unique dealer principals in the entire US. The truth is, the number of 918 VIP’s that are dealer principals is just a very small fraction of that.
4. No one is disputing that some non-dealer 918 VIP’s bought multiple 918’s. Not sure why you guys are even mentioning that.
5. Anyone can verify the 918 VIP rules. Simply go to your dealer, ask them to search for the rules in PPN and print it. It'll take one minute. Dealers have a 6-month hold with a 2X chargeback. Others have a 1-year hold. Everything you said about the rules surrounding the dealers was wrong. Like, literally every single thing you wrote.
6. The reason there are so many GT2RS’s and GT3RS’s for sale right now has absolutely NOTHING to do with dealer principals flipping their 918 VIP allocation because they supposedly have no consequences; that’s just dumb anti-dealer conspiracy.
There was a huge percentage of GT cars produced in the late 4th quarter. Many of them were pre-sold for over MSRP to legit clients over the entire second half of 2018, and had scheduled deliveries for Q1 of 2019. When the cars had finally arrived, the market had changed. GT2RS’s were no longer $100K over, and GT3RS’s were no longer $40/50k over, so the buyers cancelled their agreement. Now, there’s a bunch for sale which had been pre-sold to real clients, but canceled. Owners and GM’s are instructing their sales staffs to dump a few of them closer to MSRP to manage inventory dollars. No more GT cars are being produced for the US (with exception to a very small, insignificant number of 3RS’s trickling), so the sales departments are not overly concerned about the temporary supply. Besides, as soon as the price lowers to near MSRP, there’s a line of 10 people waiting. However, since GM’s and owners control the store, some cars are being blown out to manage inventory dollars. There’s no new shipments coming, so a lot of people believe the price will climb back up in 60 days with the start of summer — that’s why no one is really overly concerned. I have no guess or interest in which direction the price will go.
7. Who I am is irrelevant. If you don’t believe me, then don’t believe me. If you want to believe Porsche put together the entire LA Auto Show, including all the logistics and video production required for it within just a few weeks, knock yourself out. If you want to believe Lars Kern (who actually helped test the Michelin R's for the RS) has no idea what tires he’s running on his famous record lap, knock yourself out. That guy can tell you what tires are on his car within two chicanes. If you want to believe there are more dealer principal 918 VIP’s than there are individual dealers, knock yourself out.
It’s just another perspective in this anti-dealer echo chamber, and it’s your choice to believe what you wish.
Last I check, there are plenty of threads praising dealerships doing the right thing too. Unfortunately, your dealership is not one of those mentioned. That's too bad. Come to think of it, your dealership made the OTHER list.
Don't worry, I am not going to out you. You have the right to remain anonymous and hide behind a handle.
03-15-2019, 12:43 PM
#53
Last reasons for backouts Recently:
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
The following users liked this post:
FastCarSlo (07-08-2019)
03-15-2019, 10:54 PM
#55
customer getting divorce, 600LT
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
A wife disapproved, touring
Trade was upside down/ no equity, 720
Kept/bought a different car fr different dealer RS
Didnt get promotion was banking on, RS
Haven't sold stocks or house yet senna
Consolidating 150-350k cars to buy CGT - 3RS
Unforeseen business build expenses 600LT
Delivery taking too long - Mono
Unless I paid first class airfare for euro delivery GT3
Business didn't do well enough, can't afford it speedster
Etc.
03-16-2019, 12:30 AM
#56
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
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Originally Posted by n3rd
I know you're a stand-up, class act MSRP guy/dealer (no sarcasm and being serious) but wouldn't you benefit from these misfortunes? Except for the douche who wants first class tickets. I just wish my dealer wouldn't have screwed me on my RS allocation.
My 911 Turbo has been in Emden for 3 weeks. It's going to be rusted when it gets here because its getting thrashed by storms.
Sir- your car is at the port in an enclosed building.
No, my brother in law's roommate was a longshoreman in Rhode Island. I know more about this than you do.
Sir, please- Porsche tests 911's IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. They have 10 year corrosion warranty! This is totally normal.
No, you guys screwed me. I dont want this rustbucket.
03-16-2019, 01:24 AM
#57
You benefit from selling cars as fast as possible, the collective interest on a 600LT or GT2 or 720 in combination with 3-4 other cars is a vampire to profits and cash flow. Too many cars stack up your floor line etc. obviously we are talking about good cars but the BEST AND MOST UNBEATABLE EXCUSE SO FAR:
My 911 Turbo has been in Emden for 3 weeks. It's going to be rusted when it gets here because its getting thrashed by storms.
Sir- your car is at the port in an enclosed building.
No, my brother in law's roommate was a longshoreman in Rhode Island. I know more about this than you do.
Sir, please- Porsche tests 911's IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. They have 10 year corrosion warranty! This is totally normal.
No, you guys screwed me. I dont want this rustbucket.
My 911 Turbo has been in Emden for 3 weeks. It's going to be rusted when it gets here because its getting thrashed by storms.
Sir- your car is at the port in an enclosed building.
No, my brother in law's roommate was a longshoreman in Rhode Island. I know more about this than you do.
Sir, please- Porsche tests 911's IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. They have 10 year corrosion warranty! This is totally normal.
No, you guys screwed me. I dont want this rustbucket.
03-16-2019, 01:34 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
You benefit from selling cars as fast as possible, the collective interest on a 600LT or GT2 or 720 in combination with 3-4 other cars is a vampire to profits and cash flow. Too many cars stack up your floor line etc. obviously we are talking about good cars but the BEST AND MOST UNBEATABLE EXCUSE SO FAR:
My 911 Turbo has been in Emden for 3 weeks. It's going to be rusted when it gets here because its getting thrashed by storms.
Sir- your car is at the port in an enclosed building.
No, my brother in law's roommate was a longshoreman in Rhode Island. I know more about this than you do.
Sir, please- Porsche tests 911's IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. They have 10 year corrosion warranty! This is totally normal.
No, you guys screwed me. I dont want this rustbucket.
My 911 Turbo has been in Emden for 3 weeks. It's going to be rusted when it gets here because its getting thrashed by storms.
Sir- your car is at the port in an enclosed building.
No, my brother in law's roommate was a longshoreman in Rhode Island. I know more about this than you do.
Sir, please- Porsche tests 911's IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. They have 10 year corrosion warranty! This is totally normal.
No, you guys screwed me. I dont want this rustbucket.
I can so top that one.
My perfect excuse would be telling your sales guy your boss is more handsome than me, so now I don't want the car
03-16-2019, 10:56 AM
#59
^ Whoopsy, such a reply!
03-16-2019, 11:02 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
There is this girl that I wet on a date once, she found out I know CJ. She was a big fan of him before. Asked how I know him and can I introduce him and can she get a autograph, etc.
There was no second date.
And no I didn't send her to him, I felt like she might become a stalker.