rosenbergendo

488 at over sticker.....come on. You're asking for a possibly a 100k loss in 6 months. New car plus, many 488's, plus other economic factors equal big loss. To some that still matters zero as they have enough to not even care about the loss.

sampelligrino

Can only speak to my experience (don't know who is paying over for a 488), I paid MSRP. My perspective is I take X dollars (MSRP in this case), set it aside, and assume it's gone. Same with my GT3 or any car I own for that matter whether the Highlander etc. Therefore I better enjoy whatever it is that money is being set aside for. I get car insurance. If or when something else catches my eye, I sell the car and anything I net in line what the market price is, great and I move on

End of story and that way, 0 stress, and just enjoy these things for what they are. depreciating assets that make me smile and help me turn the world off for moments at a time

I never understood this depreciation/value concern with these cars. Takes away from how amazing they are, turns them into commodities, creates unnecessary stress and worry. Perhaps some are stretching a bit to get into these cars if they are so concerned about that

My only point was I, like many others here, love to window shop online for different cars and seeing 2RS prices recently both private and dealer priced, ADMs seem to be falling for those in the market. I would steer fellow RLers away from paying 100 over for a 2RS but not my business nor my money

Drifting

sampelligrino

Let's not sidetrack the thread too much for those interested in 2RS ADMs, but let me be the first to tell you yes

yesyoucan

A $100K ADM on a Porsche GT2RS is the same as buying and spec'ing a brand new 488 at MSRP at this point. You'll lose about the same amount of money in six months. If a person is going to the Ferrari side of things because they are upset about ADM's or dealer attitude, then they have surprises coming to them.

Any responsible owner of Ferrari's who has played in the new car space for some time will tell someone that if one is going to take a financial hit and perhaps substantial hit then the car purchase should be a stepping stone for future models. If there is no such desire for that then maybe set it up a different way. A lot of people on the Ferrari side of things who don't understand how this all works tend to be one and done because they buy into the depreciation or lack of depreciation thing. A lot of the angst on the Ferrari side of things are people who went all in by getting a Ferrari car, liked it and wanted to continue in that space and then got a cold reality of how it is played to get future cars.

I don't have skin in anyone's decision (just sharing my experience and perhaps what I would do, or how I would look at it).

sampelligrino

lol dude you are still looking at this with financial goggles on. What I am trying to tell you is take those damn goggles off

NOTHING here makes financial sense, AT ALL. You are completely missing the point. There is nothing responsible, rational, or sensible about spending this kind of money on any car. A 2RS, a Pista, a 488, a Carrera T, Performante, name any car you like. Trying to force this to make sense from a financial or speculative standpoint to get cars in the future is a fool's game that I personally won't play

The 2RS could be half the price of the 488 or double the price of the 488, the ADM could go up it could go down, it doesn't matter. All I wanted to know is what is the amount I need to cut the check for to get the car I want, period. Today. Period. Not worried about tomorrow

Just my 2 cents

sampelligrino

That being said the reason I mention I wouldn't pay 100k over for a 2RS is the same reason I wouldn't pay over for a 488. I don't think that's the market or necessary. I don't like giving dealers extra money unless necessary. At the time of my GT3 purchase, ADM was just about necessary for someone in my shoes. At the time of my 488 purchase, no reason on earth why I would pay over. At this moment, I wouldn't pay 100k over for the 2RS. Value/depreciation concern post purchase/speculation IMO is different than entry price that is not aligned with what the market truly is

Maverick787

sampelligrino

Oh I know, and thanks I am with you Just trying to impart some advice onto others and help foster a perspective shift from value/deprecation/buying X car to get Y car in the future to simply enjoying these insanely fun cars right here & now. If my grandparents ever found out how much I paid for my first Fcar I am worried I would send them to the grave early

ezinternet

welikethetrack

With all due respect, what are you talking about?

There is a point system with Ferarri that gets you the "very specials" if I remember correctly, that is the internal code name for the allocations for Pistas and LaFerraris tdf's,. etc. A brand new 488 gets you the same points it did 2 years ago as long as they were both new. Also, a 488 allocation is not hard to get, if you have really any Ferrari and get it serviced at the dealer they will order you one. If you bother someone enough somewhere they will give you one without owning. I personally took my scud in for service maybe a year or two ago and they offered me an allocation w/o me asking and it was a 7 month wait from order to delivery. Of course unlike Porsche, they have to sell you at sticker if it is new...

So what is the 75k hidden adm? If you order a 488 coupe with just the essentials like carbon steering wheel and shields, relatively speaking it is not very expensive to own for a few years really...

and yeah objectively speaking, buying new Ferrari is much better to deal with than Porsche. The dealers cant play games. It is all done pretty fair as they use the point system which includes things like going to F1 races and getting a box to actually racing Ferrari's of which i understand you are literally guaranteed any allocation you want albeit with the annual cost of about 1 million to do the minimum 5 races required for the status.

carcommander

yesyoucan

488 hasn't been hard to get for over a year now... Too many made, too many choices. It is a regular production model, that has gone down in value by quite a bit. To get a Pista which is in the same area as a GT2rs, you aren't going to step in and get one unless you have bought a big money losing car (cali t, ff, lusso, portfino) which already carry close to a hundred thousand dollar loss with them (whether driven or not). That is your ADM on the ferrari side of things. They just call it something different and you go through a lot of hoops to get one.

If someone is saying that they are not willing to buy a gt2rs with a $100K ADM and they don't want to deal with dealer games and compare it to Ferrari side where they are getting a regular production car that is wide open for anyone to get which is already trading in secondary market well below MSRP with the same built in loss once it leaves the dealer lot then the GT2RS deal doesn't look so bad.

Drifting

Ferrari is much better than Porsche GT cars in that they have to sell you a new car at MSRP. The point system you describe (if followed by all dealerships?) sounds relatively fair for their LE cars.

However, there are still plenty of hassles getting a new Ferrari, even one that's not LE.

I was very interested in a new 458 spider several years ago, and approached my local Ferrari dealership when the 458 spider was announced and I was told no way in hell could I order a new one, but if I wanted to buy one of their overpriced used Ferraris in the showroom, they would "think about maybe finding me an allocation in 1-2 years". Same story when I stopped by again two years later.

Only when I went by a final time, more than 3 years after the spider release, and when Ferrari was less than a year away from announcing the 488, was I finally given the chance to spend 300K on a 458 Spider, but by now I had been thoroughly enjoying my 150K 991.1 GT3 on the track and weekend trips and didn't feel the need to spend the extra money, and I was annoyed at the hassle of getting even a regular (non-limited) edition ferrari anytime before the last year of the cars production, (unless you had been buying Ferraris for years as part of the old guard).

In the US, where hefty ADM happens at 90% of dealerships for Porsche GT cars, few people get MSRP on Porsche GT as you only get MSRP from those few Porsche dealerships if you've spend lots of money over the years, and even those dealership numbers # are greatly limited these days, and to be able to buy a new Ferrari even a non-limited edition, you've got to overpay for used ferrari showroom cars, or buy a new Ferrari in the last year of production during which you'll lose a lot of value.

Either way, it seems both Ferrari and Porsche dealerships will stick it to you, other than a few remaining honorable dealers like CJ in Fresno.

yesyoucan

You write this and then this...

That being said the reason I mention I wouldn't pay 100k over for a 2RS is the same reason I wouldn't pay over for a 488. I don't think that's the market or necessary. I don't like giving dealers extra money unless necessary. At the time of my GT3 purchase, ADM was just about necessary for someone in my shoes. At the time of my 488 purchase, no reason on earth why I would pay over. At this moment, I wouldn't pay 100k over for the 2RS. Value/depreciation concern post purchase/speculation IMO is different than entry price that is not aligned with what the market truly is

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People on rennlist are all worked up about ADM's on cars and calling it dealer games. I don't see it the same way. Asking for market value on a car (dealer/resale perception) isn't a game at all. It's straight up and above board to what it costs for you to get in.

Buying a car that you don't necessarily want to get another car that you do want and paying for it at MSRP, isn't MSRP at all. (that is a dealer game).