Antigravity

Standard Amp Hours in the H6 Lead battery stock in the Porsches are 70Ah. And the closest in ours is 40Ah.... but 40 Ah or lIthium is much more energy dense. So its equivalent to a much higher rated Lead/Acid Battery. As far as cranking power its literally 2 to 3 times more cranking power than a Lead/Acid. To give a brief example.... Lead will put out the 70Ah for example on a low 1 amp draw.... but as it discharges the voltage is actually going down in a linear fashion... 12.6v then after a while 11.5 then after a while 10.5 etc.... think of the graph showing a line going down at an angle as it discharge. Where as Lithium will have a flat plane of a graph showing almost straight across as it discharges...it will keep basically 13.2v until it his it end of usable capacity then quickly drops off. So this straight line of stable voltage offer much better starting because the power is staying very stable across its time of use, basically staying in the sweet spot a very long time until the end. Then it just drop very fast in voltage, but you have the stability so even when the battery is lower in the state of charge is will still start a car when a lead acid won't.

So it not really a good apple to apples comparison... Lithium has a much longer lifespan and is front loaded with extreme cranking power... but if you have a very low amp draw the lead would last longer powering something like a 25 watt bulb, but as your amp draw goes up higher then lithium performs much better... such as starting and higher amp discharges.

n terms of cost over the Life of a battery it should be lithium by a medium level of advantage... being the Lithium will cost more upfront but probably last about 2 to maybe 3 lifespans of a lead-acid battery...but also offers much more in performance benefits such as the lightweight, it charges faster, can have built in jump starting like ours. So it a better value over a longer period, but the initial buy-in for some people is a fear... but the benefits of weight reduction are crazy in terms of price per pound.... nothing compares in any performance product. So for the performance minded they are very into it... for the person with a basic Car like a Ford Fusion.... maybe not so much. Oddly we do sell alot to regular passenger cars, but now we should open that up alot more with the new sizing we offer.

Ducati1199

Well that's a coincidence - I just purchased an Antigravity battery on Monday for my Ducati after I found the OEM dead even though it had been on a trickle charger. I like the idea of being able to re-fire/start the battery by pressing the battery but on the Panigale the battery is located deep behind the fairings so the fob looks like a great idea. How do I get hold of one? The bike shop i got the battery from wasn't aware or had the key fob? Thanks,

Antigravity

LOL... I think your right. I was trying to be cute and stupid.

But MInthral can still look at our batteries as having a Mithril Coat over them....

chillindrdude

Can you post some recommended chargers for lithium batteries?

Thank you.

Antigravity

Hi Chillindrdude, scroll up just a little in this thread and you'll see the link to the TM-471 model we recommend.

RRRRR

Thanks for your great effort! Looking to buy one in future. Do you guys shipping or selling in Australia?

Btw, do I need battery charger too keep the battery alive? Living in a all year summer city and drive the car once per week or fortnight. But every drive will be more than 1 hour. Don't really have a wall plug in my apartment garage.

Thanks!

sunnyr

Stories like this scare the **** out of me. And I read one every time I look into getting a Li-ion battery and say screw it. Anything Antigravity can say to assuage fears of exploding li-ion batteries?

Vadaredevil

usctrojanGT3

I think their technology is much better to be honest.

Antigravity

Hey Ducati1199.... I have a Panigale also. I actually started this company in 2010 on the website of Ducati.ms because I was doing alot of trackdays with some buddies.... All I wanted was to be able to have it pay for Track days and a new bike. But now its a double edge sword... I have most the vehicles I want and not much time to ride. Odd how that works.

So about the keyfob for the Motorcycle Sized Batteries.... we unfortunately do not have the Keyfob yet. But there is a simple work around.... if you hit any of our Motorcycle size batteries with a 12v source it will AWAKEN the battery. For example if you had a a MICRO-START or other version of a mini jump-Starter we make a Harness that you can just plug in the mini-jump starter for a second and it will AWAKEN the battery because it zaps it with 12v... . Or if your crafty you can take some of the small 12v Garage door opener batteries and make a way to zap the battery through the Battery Charger Cable and awaken it. But we don't have a Wireless remote like this new Car Battery. We were in fact developing a little WIRED Keyfob for the Motorcycle Sized batteries... but I put that on the Back burner once I started on the Car Batteries. The Car Batteries became my focus over the last year...

Antigravity

There is a potential for Lithium to go into Thermal Runaway, which is sort of a melt down of the battery, and can lead to a fire, but with LIFPO4 most often is smoldering and smoking and high heat but not as often raw flame. It a condition where the battery starts to overheat dramatically, and then at a certain point that heat in essence creates more heat as it feeds on itself and the energy within the battery. That;s a layman's explanation but good enough, because what is more important to know if the CAUSES. I did a long statement on it in another thread but I will explain the basics again... the more people who understand the better.

So first I want to let people know that it is not just a spontaneous occurrence out of the blue for a Lithium battery. There is usually a set of circumstances that promote and cause it to happen.

1-If a lithium Battery if OVER-CHARGED this can create an over-heating of the battery. Why would a Lithium battery be over-charged? If a person puts a Lithium Battery on a Lead/Acid Charger with a Desulphate Mode, and the Lead/Acid charger goes into Desulphate mode it will be spiking voltage up to 24v thinking the Lithium battery is a Lead/Acid battery that needs the Suphation removed. Lithium will not handle that well and can overheat, and go into Thermal Runaway. Or using the wrong voltage of charger for example a 16v charger on a 12v Lithium Battery.

2- Also if a lithium battery does not have a low-voltage cut-off protection then the User can accidentally over-discharge the battery deeply... For example they left the key in the ignition, or left the lights on overnight and severely over-discharged the lithium battery down to 6v. So the Car won't start, then the User puts it on a charger that is FAST Charging this Lithium Battery from a very low state of Charge. Well, Lithium is exceptional at taking a fast charge and recharging when it is ABOVE 10.5v..... BUT, if your lithium battery is at 6v and getting high voltage and current pushed into it when its in this low voltage state, it is going to HATE that and can over-heat. BUT, a modern Lithium Charger actually massages the Lithium Battery back to about 10.5v THEN starts to charge it faster. That is what the Optimate Charger does best of any of the Chargers.

Those reasons above are why it's CRITICAL to have a Battery with the built-in protections against over-discharge, and over-charge, and to also use a good quality lithium Charger. So the Protections that are built into a quality lithium battery product keep the Lithium Battery from getting to a state where there is the potential for Thermal Runaway. So while I do not like to bash companies, I will also state the fact that Braille does not ANY protections... they just have the Lithium Cells going directly to the Battery posts. That not acceptable when the Amp Hours are getting larger because the melt down can be larger and create severe damage. Its also pretty lame that they are charging so much $ for a battery with no protectione for almost $2000. We have called them at least 4 times posing as Customers and asked if they have protections (which we already know they didn't) and they state since their batteries don't fail often they don't need protections... that is just silly, because we know that is not accurate since we have some many past Braille customer coming to us, but also because claiming you don't have protections due to no failures it wrong... it about creating a safer product in general. Its like saying your not putting air bags in a car because your car has never been in an accident. YOU should still have freaking air bags for safety when the potential for danger is there.

I also want to point out and be fair that a Braille Battery does not mean its a bad battery... if you maintain it and don't come to a circumstance where it becomes severely over-discharged, or over-charged you can get a fine life and performance out of it. But you will definately be running a much higher risk of catastrophic failure and severe damageby not having protections to prevent against thermal runaway. Additionally they do not have a Balancing circuit which keeps the individual cells aligned in terms of how they are discharging and re-charging. All of these things play a factor in safety and overall lifespan. So for the prices they are charging, especially at this point in time, they should be absolutely leading this market, not making something so basic that it can be made in a garage. Lithium (Lifepo4 varient) is a quite safe and resilient battery, its not just going just spontaneous erupt... but it can have Thermal Runaway much more readily without the preventative protections. Also these protection create a much longer lifespan due to the fact that they prevent the battery from being even mildly damage by a mild over-discharge.

I also want to disclose that we make quite a few batteries WITHOUT any protections, (though they do have cell balancing). These batteries are from our original Motorcycle lines for racing and made in a ultra compact format and are very tiny. They have a long history in off-road racing, and still have a very big following and are used by the top teams in Moto Racing. And YES we have had some thermal runaway issues with those. Its quite rare, but has happened. But those are a older technology, and we would not recommend them for any Street use Car. But our RE-START line is the top of the line products with all the protections, and the only way I would ever come to the Car market.

Antigravity

We have a Distributor in Aus.. but they are for the Motorcycle Batteries but they also brought in a good number of the RS-30... but I'm sure they will probably bring in some of the new line....

We do ship to Aus... but the shipping is expensive, and we can't control that. Its a Class 9 Shipment and now all the Carriers ad a surcharge.

If you are driving one a week for an Hour you will NEVER have to charge the battery. First off and hour of driving will close to fully charge most any lithium battery even if its pretty heavily discharged. Then even if it was once a month or longer in a stock car without a bunch of after market accessories you can easily let it sit that long. If you don't have to put any battery on a charger, then don't. There is no need to cycle a battery unnecessarily. Just put them on a charger if you plan to not drive for a while, or if you do have a car with excessive parasitic draws on it.

Jimmy-D

Been trickle charging it for 3 years- no problem

Ducati1199

OK - good to know. TBH This is the first time the battery has let me down and the bike is close to 7 years old so not that big of a surprise the battery has failed? One other question assuming parasitic draws how long do you think I could leave the Pani sitting there without it being on a trickle charger? I'm just interested if its longer than the OEM one? As you say other bikes plus other cars make saddle time on the Panigale disappear a bit.

sunnyr

Thanks Scott, very informative.