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JCR // DYNO TEST (Part1) - JCR vs OEM vs XXXXXX Headers

 
Old 03-08-2019, 11:04 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by RennOracle View Post
That is running LEANNN AF. I don't know what will give up first a piston or the titanium pipe. Why not make it inconel like the headers?
Ok. It's not lean, I mean, it is lean but not a smidge leaner than a 100% stock car runs in fact. The manifolds are 0.9mm Inco625 and the Race Pipe is 1.2mm Asnex, the exhaust glowing is absolutely nothing to be concerned about, purely a function of the material and wall thickness. The EGT's are actually a chunk lower than an a 100% stock car too due to no cats and reduced back pressure offered by the complete system vs OEM.

Motorsport quality components are more than used to this, they visually glow due to the thin wall and the nature of the material. Unless Porsche Motorsport don't know what they're doing either?


2018 GT3R @ Spa24

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Old 03-08-2019, 03:49 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by JCR-Porsche View Post
Ok. It's not lean, I mean, it is lean but not a smidge leaner than a 100% stock car runs in fact. The manifolds are 0.9mm Inco625 and the Race Pipe is 1.2mm Asnex, the exhaust glowing is absolutely nothing to be concerned about, purely a function of the material and wall thickness. The EGT's are actually a chunk lower than an a 100% stock car too due to no cats and reduced back pressure offered by the complete system vs OEM.

Motorsport quality components are more than used to this, they visually glow due to the thin wall and the nature of the material. Unless Porsche Motorsport don't know what they're doing either?


2018 GT3R @ Spa24

JC
They rebuild the engine at every race and if it brakes they put new, as long as it holds a race, especially spa and lemans, so they can squeeze every hp possible, will you rebuild your clients engines? The ecu will adjust tho and it's actually a sign of them power gainzzz.

Titanium will brake if it glows like that so fast and easy (that photo is decieving, that car was running for hours already, it was not a dyno pull), why do you think inconel (that you use) got so popular in racing?
Regardless, your company is doing a quality product with the headers.

P.S. That first part totally escaped. That glow is not lower than oem lol, that's at least 1500F, that's almost limit egt for gt2s and vgt turbo cars, not atmosferic. The only thing thickness will influence is speed to get to high temperature and cool down speed.
And if your headers are doing anything at all, it will be running leaner until the ecu adjusts fuel.

Last edited by RennOracle; 03-08-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:11 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by RennOracle View Post
They rebuild the engine at every race and if it brakes they put new, as long as it holds a race, especially spa and lemans, so they can squeeze every hp possible, will you rebuild your clients engines? The ecu will adjust tho and it's actually a sign of them power gainzzz.

Titanium will brake if it glows like that so fast and easy (that photo is decieving, that car was running for hours already, it was not a dyno pull), why do you think inconel (that you use) got so popular in racing?
Regardless, your company is doing a quality product with the headers.

P.S. That first part totally escaped. That glow is not lower than oem lol, that's at least 1500F, that's almost limit egt for gt2s and vgt turbo cars, not atmosferic. The only thing thickness will influence is speed to get to high temperature and cool down speed.
And if your headers are doing anything at all, it will be running leaner until the ecu adjusts fuel.
You really do know a lot less than you seem to think. Think we will have to agree to disagree on this occasion.

Feel free to clutter someone else’s thread. Have a great day

JC
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:05 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by JCR-Porsche View Post


You really do know a lot less than you seem to think. Think we will have to agree to disagree on this occasion.

Feel free to clutter someone else’s thread. Have a great day

JC
I am really sorry. Love your products but that seems like a cop out. If he is wrong, you should explain for the benefit of forum member's and potential customer's (includes me) why he is wrong.

And To be honest, I too had a concern when I saw the video - if it is glowing red, it means it is radiating more heat vs the stock exhaust. Are the material on the car around the exhaust - the bumper etc designed to withstand that additional heat on a sustained basis?

No offense meant and honestly looking forward to an explanation.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:10 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by sunnyr View Post
I am really sorry. Love your products but that seems like a cop out. If he is wrong, you should explain for the benefit of forum member's and potential customer's (includes me) why he is wrong.

And To be honest, I too had a concern when I saw the video - if it is glowing red, it means it is radiating more heat vs the stock exhaust. Are the material on the car around the exhaust - the bumper etc designed to withstand that additional heat on a sustained basis?

No offense meant and honestly looking forward to an explanation.
I didn’t want to have to waste any more time on this guy but as you’ve asked..

This will be the last response in reference to this, please see below:

“They rebuild the engine at every race”

No, the car pictured is a GT3 car. The engines are rebuilt every circa 12,000km. Block / heads / crank / rods are all retained.

“and if it brakes they put new, as long as it holds a race, especially spa and lemans”

A typical engine will compete in a chassis for upwards of 2 years during a typical season cycle. GT3 cars are also not eligible for racing in the LeMans24

“so they can squeeze every hp possible”

No. In GT3 specification the 2018 GT3R ran 2x 41.5mm restrictors as per BoP regulation. Simple math will help you understand the relevance.

“will you rebuild your clients engines?”

Bogus comment

“The ecu will adjust tho and it's actually a sign of them power gainzzz”

Again, bogus.

“Titanium will brake if it glows like that so fast and easy”

The material we use is not your average ‘titanium’ I’ve already mentioned the material name plus all info is available on our website and in much further detail with a simple google search.

Also, it didn’t break*

“(that photo is decieving, that car was running for hours already, it was not a dyno pull)”

You think it takes hours of running to accumulate the heat necessary to make an exhaust glow? Really?

“why do you think inconel (that you use) got so popular in racing?”

You probably didn’t know that all but one current F1 teams use Titanium in their tailpipes and wastegate dumps. Inconel for the headers. Sound familiar?

“Regardless, your company is doing a quality product with the headers”

Thanks.

“P.S. That first part totally escaped. That glow is not lower than oem lol, that's at least 1500f”

I’m impressed by your EGT knowledge gathered from a video. I’ll trust our measured data on this occasion, however. Again, investigate at what temperature this material will glow.

“that's almost limit egt for gt2s and vgt turbo cars, not atmosferic”

Irrelevant and bogus, as described above.

“The only thing thickness will influence is speed to get to high temperature and cool down speed”

True, agreed and the point I was making. Hence why the exhaust will visually glow during a dyno pull.

“And if your headers are doing anything at all, it will be running leaner until the ecu adjusts fuel”

Yes, the ECU reads lambda, has a think, takes a tea break, then decides to add fuel when it feels like it. All the while the engine has been running lean.

Point made?


JC
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:23 PM
  #51  
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Jonny,

Don't waste your time, instead send me the data on the inconel headers dB reading with the valved race pipes, as that's the only hold-up to order them, I have 6 people already interested on my JCR Silenced Race Pipes, 2 on this forum, and 4 991 GT3 owners that heard my exhaust in the last 3 weeks at a couple of track days and 1 day at the drag strip.

By the way, my Akrapovic headers are made of titanium, and they glow red (and I love it), and they haven't cracked, but unfortunately I cannot use them with your JCR exhaust products as the Akrapovic headers attach to the FVD or Akrapovic L-pipes and either stock or Akrapovic center mufflers.

Akrapovic has manufactured OEM exhaust parts for Porsche, and they are made of titanium. Very good quality parts.

By the way, close to 900 miles of strong driving on your JCR race pipes, they glow red as well, I finally got the nice purple/blue/pink titanium colors, the sound is so amazing that I'm looking for excuses to drive the RS more and more.

Currently, I'm testing a SOUL performance set of resonators/tips, amazing finish, super light (about the same as my 991.1 GT3 RS stock tips), pretty look, and they made my Silenced Race pipes quieter without turn downs, I want it louder, but these special resonated pipes are for limited sound events.

...Please, fabricate those long paddles in Carbon fiber, I have 3 buyers if you can make them.

Thanks, and don't waste your time
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:27 PM
  #52  
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JC Stated: ​​​You really do know a lot less than you seem to think. Think we will have to agree to disagree on this occasion.

Feel free to clutter someone else’s thread. Have a great day
As a former Sr. Engineer for Ak Steel's Specialty Stainless Division Customer Tech Services I couldn't have quit quick enough to have kept the door **** from hitting me in the butt on the way out the door for that statement.
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:43 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by A/S View Post
Jonny,

Don't waste your time, instead send me the data on the inconel headers dB reading with the valved race pipes, as that's the only hold-up to order them, I have 6 people already interested on my JCR Silenced Race Pipes, 2 on this forum, and 4 991 GT3 owners that heard my exhaust in the last 3 weeks at a couple of track days and 1 day at the drag strip.
I've been lurking on all the JCR threads trying to decide which set up to go with. Your feedbacks have been helpful. At first, I wanted to go with the valved race pipes, but figured that since the pse button doesn't actually keep the valves open, I'd rather skip it all together and go with the race pipes and control the volume with my right foot instead. I then started to worry that maybe it might be a little too loud so I looked at the silenced race pipes. This is where all your feedback really helped, so thanks for that. Just wanted to know what made you decide on the silenced race pipes and why you want to let them go now? Are they not loud enough for your liking? I'm sort of in the boat of wanting it to be on the louder side but there's loud, then there's obnoxious. (Just want to be somewhat considerate as I myself find Harley's generate the most atrocious and rage inducing noises that I never want to hear.) I want to be able to enjoy the loudness without it being so overwhelming that I have cops hear me coming from 2 blocks down.

I also know this 'drone' question had been discussed a lot and is a very subjective issue, but do you reckon there would be a difference in drone, or lack thereof, between the silenced and regular non silenced race pipes?

At this point I'm still trying to decide between the race pipes and the silenced version. The videos couldn't really reflect the difference in volume for me. My mind says to go with the race pipes because I might regret the silenced version not being loud enough. Though, my logical side tells me it might be too extreme to live with and might hold me back from starting the car for an evening drive in consideration of waking the neighborhood. I guess it all depends on how civilized it CAN be when driving sensibly without wanting to attract the extra attention when I don't want to. (I know.. race pipes are not designed to be discrete, but you know what I mean.)

Sorry for the long post. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:14 AM
  #54  
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This has been an excellent example of the Duning- Kruger effect.
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:40 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by matt3rs View Post
I've been lurking on all the JCR threads trying to decide which set up to go with. Your feedbacks have been helpful. At first, I wanted to go with the valved race pipes, but figured that since the pse button doesn't actually keep the valves open, I'd rather skip it all together and go with the race pipes and control the volume with my right foot instead. I then started to worry that maybe it might be a little too loud so I looked at the silenced race pipes. This is where all your feedback really helped, so thanks for that. Just wanted to know what made you decide on the silenced race pipes and why you want to let them go now? Are they not loud enough for your liking? I'm sort of in the boat of wanting it to be on the louder side but there's loud, then there's obnoxious. (Just want to be somewhat considerate as I myself find Harley's generate the most atrocious and rage inducing noises that I never want to hear.) I want to be able to enjoy the loudness without it being so overwhelming that I have cops hear me coming from 2 blocks down.

I also know this 'drone' question had been discussed a lot and is a very subjective issue, but do you reckon there would be a difference in drone, or lack thereof, between the silenced and regular non silenced race pipes?

At this point I'm still trying to decide between the race pipes and the silenced version. The videos couldn't really reflect the difference in volume for me. My mind says to go with the race pipes because I might regret the silenced version not being loud enough. Though, my logical side tells me it might be too extreme to live with and might hold me back from starting the car for an evening drive in consideration of waking the neighborhood. I guess it all depends on how civilized it CAN be when driving sensibly without wanting to attract the extra attention when I don't want to. (I know.. race pipes are not designed to be discrete, but you know what I mean.)

Sorry for the long post. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
I have heard two 991 GT3s with straight pipes, one is a .2 GT3RS with a Sharkwerks long pipes (just pipes from the cats, no muffler), the other a FabSpeed race exhaust. They are extremely loud, some people like very loud cars, I only like a loud car on a racetrack as I get the sound insulation from the helmet, and I like to hear a loud motor with the helmet on. Without a helmet, straight pipes are too loud.

For my use, the JCR Race pipes are perfect, but I won't be able to drive such a loud car on the streets, and straight pipes have drone at low RPM ranges. Drone is not a problem on a racetrack because the car is running at high RPMs, and a helmet softens the sound of straight pipes. For street use, race pipes are not suitable for me, they are too loud, and my RPM range on street driving is right where the heavy drone will play. I'm too sensitive to drone, I notice drone where other people don't, a Yukon Denali has drone at 70-80mph a brand new one.

The silenced race pipes are loud, but not obnoxious. I would like them to be louder on a racetrack and quieter on the streets, but controlling the gas pedal on a low torque engine means the car won't move, so on street use to get the car moving you'll have a loud car at partial throttle applications. Despite of having 2 nice size mufflers, they are still loud, louder than any side by-pass pipes with stock center muffler.

The JCR Valved Race Pipes should be quieter than my silenced race pipes with valves closed, but I'm awaiting confirmation from Johnny on this. They will definitely be louder with open valves, and that's fine on a racetrack. With an additional controller, you can run the system with valves fully open at all rpm ranges (it will be the equivalent to the JCR race pipes), valved fully closed (100%) for partial throttle applications, or managed by the Porsche algorithm on the exhaust button. I think this Valved Race system is the perfect solution, and I'm glad that it got created by the request of multiple people in this forum (and some lurkers). This system was not available when I purchased my Silenced Race Pipes.

So, either go with Silenced or Valved Race Pipes, the plain race pipes should only be used on a racetrack.
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:03 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by A/S View Post
I have heard two 991 GT3s with straight pipes, one is a .2 GT3RS with a Sharkwerks long pipes (just pipes from the cats, no muffler), the other a FabSpeed race exhaust. They are extremely loud, some people like very loud cars, I only like a loud car on a racetrack as I get the sound insulation from the helmet, and I like to hear a loud motor with the helmet on. Without a helmet, straight pipes are too loud.

For my use, the JCR Race pipes are perfect, but I won't be able to drive such a loud car on the streets, and straight pipes have drone at low RPM ranges. Drone is not a problem on a racetrack because the car is running at high RPMs, and a helmet softens the sound of straight pipes. For street use, race pipes are not suitable for me, they are too loud, and my RPM range on street driving is right where the heavy drone will play. I'm too sensitive to drone, I notice drone where other people don't, a Yukon Denali has drone at 70-80mph a brand new one.

The silenced race pipes are loud, but not obnoxious. I would like them to be louder on a racetrack and quieter on the streets, but controlling the gas pedal on a low torque engine means the car won't move, so on street use to get the car moving you'll have a loud car at partial throttle applications. Despite of having 2 nice size mufflers, they are still loud, louder than any side by-pass pipes with stock center muffler.

The JCR Valved Race Pipes should be quieter than my silenced race pipes with valves closed, but I'm awaiting confirmation from Johnny on this. They will definitely be louder with open valves, and that's fine on a racetrack. With an additional controller, you can run the system with valves fully open at all rpm ranges (it will be the equivalent to the JCR race pipes), valved fully closed (100%) for partial throttle applications, or managed by the Porsche algorithm on the exhaust button. I think this Valved Race system is the perfect solution, and I'm glad that it got created by the request of multiple people in this forum (and some lurkers). This system was not available when I purchased my Silenced Race Pipes.

So, either go with Silenced or Valved Race Pipes, the plain race pipes should only be used on a racetrack.
great analysis and reasoning . Tks
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:03 PM
  #57  
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:35 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by A/S View Post
I have heard two 991 GT3s with straight pipes, one is a .2 GT3RS with a Sharkwerks long pipes (just pipes from the cats, no muffler), the other a FabSpeed race exhaust. They are extremely loud, some people like very loud cars, I only like a loud car on a racetrack as I get the sound insulation from the helmet, and I like to hear a loud motor with the helmet on. Without a helmet, straight pipes are too loud.

For my use, the JCR Race pipes are perfect, but I won't be able to drive such a loud car on the streets, and straight pipes have drone at low RPM ranges. Drone is not a problem on a racetrack because the car is running at high RPMs, and a helmet softens the sound of straight pipes. For street use, race pipes are not suitable for me, they are too loud, and my RPM range on street driving is right where the heavy drone will play. I'm too sensitive to drone, I notice drone where other people don't, a Yukon Denali has drone at 70-80mph a brand new one.

The silenced race pipes are loud, but not obnoxious. I would like them to be louder on a racetrack and quieter on the streets, but controlling the gas pedal on a low torque engine means the car won't move, so on street use to get the car moving you'll have a loud car at partial throttle applications. Despite of having 2 nice size mufflers, they are still loud, louder than any side by-pass pipes with stock center muffler.

The JCR Valved Race Pipes should be quieter than my silenced race pipes with valves closed, but I'm awaiting confirmation from Johnny on this. They will definitely be louder with open valves, and that's fine on a racetrack. With an additional controller, you can run the system with valves fully open at all rpm ranges (it will be the equivalent to the JCR race pipes), valved fully closed (100%) for partial throttle applications, or managed by the Porsche algorithm on the exhaust button. I think this Valved Race system is the perfect solution, and I'm glad that it got created by the request of multiple people in this forum (and some lurkers). This system was not available when I purchased my Silenced Race Pipes.

So, either go with Silenced or Valved Race Pipes, the plain race pipes should only be used on a racetrack.
Thanks so much for the clarification. You mentioned the straight pipes drone in low rpm. How is the drone on the silenced race pipes that you are currently running? Which controller are you planning to install to manage the valves? Thanks again, you've been really helpful.

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Old 03-09-2019, 10:26 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by A/S View Post
The JCR Valved Race Pipes should be quieter than my silenced race pipes with valves closed, but I'm awaiting confirmation from Johnny on this. They will definitely be louder with open valves, and that's fine on a racetrack. With an additional controller, you can run the system with valves fully open at all rpm ranges (it will be the equivalent to the JCR race pipes), valved fully closed (100%) for partial throttle applications, or managed by the Porsche algorithm on the exhaust button. I think this Valved Race system is the perfect solution, and I'm glad that it got created by the request of multiple people in this forum (and some lurkers). This system was not available when I purchased my Silenced Race Pipes.
Great feedback as always.

Wish I had your insight when I made my decision to go with JCR Valved Race Pipes.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:34 AM
  #60  
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Valved Silenced Race pipe Vs
Not Valved Silenced Race pipe
are the silencers the same but one with the valves?
or silencers are bigger/smaller ?

How do they compare to
JCR center with silencers ? bigger/smaller silencers here?

They look like motorcycle or r race cars silencers where they are changed frequently, for JCR silencers how many miles before the carbon build will require new silencers?

I would like a table with dB instead of numbers from 1 to 11,
is there any electronic dB measure in the cabin available or is it just the classification table based on opinions?
Worth to ask and to mention that with any exhaust modified system
over 100dB there s a serious risk to become deaf
over 120 dB is certain to become deaf
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