IMSA RANT “ROLEX”
01-28-2019, 04:05 PM
#16
Devil's Advocate. Why can't professional racers judge the conditions and slow down to a pace that's safe for those conditions and continue to race, albeit more slowly? If you wreck the car driving too fast in the rain, is it the rain's fault? Don't get me wrong, I think they should put safety first and stop the race when it's flat out dangerous, but, to a certain point, isn't that part of racing, i.e., judging where the limit is and managing your car accordingly?
01-28-2019, 04:21 PM
#17
Drifting
Interesting angle. There always seems to be “skepticism” in BOP racing. To think the race was thrown to insure success for a star or an emotional reason is pretty rich. I think most teams knew the race could end at anytime once they got into the final hour which added to carnage to get to the front. Certainly timing was bad for some. Ford for one. I do know that Alonso called for a stoppage while he WASN’T in the lead.
Last edited by Mr. Adair; 01-28-2019 at 08:22 PM.
01-28-2019, 06:03 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Devil's Advocate. Why can't professional racers judge the conditions and slow down to a pace that's safe for those conditions and continue to race, albeit more slowly? If you wreck the car driving too fast in the rain, is it the rain's fault? Don't get me wrong, I think they should put safety first and stop the race when it's flat out dangerous, but, to a certain point, isn't that part of racing, i.e., judging where the limit is and managing your car accordingly?
At at a certain point it’s not a race. It’s about trying not to crash more than going fast. That’s when it’s too dangerous and candidly silly to put the cars and drivers out there common sense compels the answer.
01-28-2019, 06:07 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Devil's Advocate. Why can't professional racers judge the conditions and slow down to a pace that's safe for those conditions and continue to race, albeit more slowly? If you wreck the car driving too fast in the rain, is it the rain's fault? Don't get me wrong, I think they should put safety first and stop the race when it's flat out dangerous, but, to a certain point, isn't that part of racing, i.e., judging where the limit is and managing your car accordingly?
01-28-2019, 07:19 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
I think there's a difference between lack of grip and lack of visibility. Lack of grip can be fun when you see who can manage the throttle better than others and who is willing to take more risks. I see this happen a lot in MotoGP.
But you couldn't see anything in this race, it should have been stopped. A good example was when Vilander in the Weathertech Ferrari rear-ended the No. 540 Porsche. He just clearly had no frame of reference and couldn't see everyone slowing down for the bus stop.
But you couldn't see anything in this race, it should have been stopped. A good example was when Vilander in the Weathertech Ferrari rear-ended the No. 540 Porsche. He just clearly had no frame of reference and couldn't see everyone slowing down for the bus stop.
01-28-2019, 07:31 PM
#21
I think there's a difference between lack of grip and lack of visibility. Lack of grip can be fun when you see who can manage the throttle better than others and who is willing to take more risks. I see this happen a lot in MotoGP.
But you couldn't see anything in this race, it should have been stopped. A good example was when Vilander in the Weathertech Ferrari rear-ended the No. 540 Porsche. He just clearly had no frame of reference and couldn't see everyone slowing down for the bus stop.
But you couldn't see anything in this race, it should have been stopped. A good example was when Vilander in the Weathertech Ferrari rear-ended the No. 540 Porsche. He just clearly had no frame of reference and couldn't see everyone slowing down for the bus stop.
01-28-2019, 07:46 PM
#22
Racer
Thread Starter
I think there's a difference between lack of grip and lack of visibility. Lack of grip can be fun when you see who can manage the throttle better than others and who is willing to take more risks. I see this happen a lot in MotoGP.
But you couldn't see anything in this race, it should have been stopped. A good example was when Vilander in the Weathertech Ferrari rear-ended the No. 540 Porsche. He just clearly had no frame of reference and couldn't see everyone slowing down for the bus stop.
But you couldn't see anything in this race, it should have been stopped. A good example was when Vilander in the Weathertech Ferrari rear-ended the No. 540 Porsche. He just clearly had no frame of reference and couldn't see everyone slowing down for the bus stop.
While I’ve never raced a car, while living in Germany and driving on the autobahn...I had the unfortunate experience of seeing first hand (more than once), the outcome what may have been the results of a 160 Kmh plus overtake in very low vis conditions. While I appreciate race cars have roll cages, safety devices, etc...at those deltas the outcome could be lethal.
To another post ref fans thinking IMSA went soft, there’s always a group looking for what’s called the “Big One” in NASCAR...I for one take no pleasure in watching cars get torn apart...let’s hope the IMSA officials debrief this race with a focus on future safety, regardless of TV ratings.
01-28-2019, 07:49 PM
#23
Then he should have been going slower, which is my point. The guys who crashed were going too fast for conditions; something that is in their control. Personally, I think that it's incumbent upon the racers to drive safely for conditions and it's up the the race officials to decide whether that speed really constitutes 'racing' from a competitive and spectator standpoint. When it doesn't, you stop the race. But crashing when you overdrive conditions is really the driver's fault.
But if they are racing, they are a risk to the rest of the field. I think visibility was the issue.
01-28-2019, 08:26 PM
#24
Then he should have been going slower, which is my point. The guys who crashed were going too fast for conditions; something that is in their control. Personally, I think that it's incumbent upon the racers to drive safely for conditions and it's up the the race officials to decide whether that speed really constitutes 'racing' from a competitive and spectator standpoint. When it doesn't, you stop the race. But crashing when you overdrive conditions is really the driver's fault.
01-28-2019, 08:28 PM
#25
Good thread.
For discussion's sake, it's not totally black and white. I think rain racing can make for some great entertainment and racing, and really shows which drivers have the most skill. But, as others said it's more than just managing your own car, and in a race like this with a range of skill levels and multiple classes, a lot can happen.
Things might have been different at another track. For those that have never set foot on a NASCAR super speedway it's steep, so steep that it's difficult to even stand on. There was one point where the 911RSR was struggling to turn around after a spin because there wasn't enough traction to get into the banking. Combine most road racers' relative inexperience with banked turns and standing water its no surprise that some were struggling just to get around the track.
Devil's Advocate. Why can't professional racers judge the conditions and slow down to a pace that's safe for those conditions and continue to race, albeit more slowly? If you wreck the car driving too fast in the rain, is it the rain's fault? Don't get me wrong, I think they should put safety first and stop the race when it's flat out dangerous, but, to a certain point, isn't that part of racing, i.e., judging where the limit is and managing your car accordingly?
Things might have been different at another track. For those that have never set foot on a NASCAR super speedway it's steep, so steep that it's difficult to even stand on. There was one point where the 911RSR was struggling to turn around after a spin because there wasn't enough traction to get into the banking. Combine most road racers' relative inexperience with banked turns and standing water its no surprise that some were struggling just to get around the track.
01-28-2019, 09:28 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
I was there for most of the 24 hours. Certainly having Alonzo in the winning team is a great outcome fir IMSA. The BMW win is a bit stranger. IMSA had to throw the red flag a the EXACT time that the leading Ford pitted. The BMWs were just downright slow in the dry, and somewhat faster in the wet. The Corvettes and the 911s were much faster in the dry. The 911s though seemed to have trouble turning in the wet.
With regards to the rain IMHO some of the guys were in fact badly overdriving the cars into the infield turn. I assume every team was thinking “there will be a red flag and we need to get to the front.” I was standing right in front of the turn and would dare to say that over 50% of the cars were running over the line and a good percentage of them lost it all together. The carnage was the result of driver aggression compounded by desperation to get to the front.
With regards to the rain IMHO some of the guys were in fact badly overdriving the cars into the infield turn. I assume every team was thinking “there will be a red flag and we need to get to the front.” I was standing right in front of the turn and would dare to say that over 50% of the cars were running over the line and a good percentage of them lost it all together. The carnage was the result of driver aggression compounded by desperation to get to the front.
01-28-2019, 10:13 PM
#28
Drifting
Devil's Advocate. Why can't professional racers judge the conditions and slow down to a pace that's safe for those conditions and continue to race, albeit more slowly? If you wreck the car driving too fast in the rain, is it the rain's fault? Don't get me wrong, I think they should put safety first and stop the race when it's flat out dangerous, but, to a certain point, isn't that part of racing, i.e., judging where the limit is and managing your car accordingly?
An inch of standing water turns a prototype into a skateboard - the wheels don't even touch the ground.
Interesting angle. There always seems to be “skepticism” in BOP racing. To think the race was thrown to insure success for a star or an emotional reason is pretty rich. I think most teams knew the race could end at anytime once they got into the final hour which added to carnage to get to the front. Certainly timing was bad for some. Ford for one. I do know that Alonso called for a stoppage while he WASN’T in the lead.
The last 45 minutes or so of the race period had conditions that were more amenable to racing than the bulk of the daylight period on Sunday. IMSA was in no rush to restart the race, period.
I stood outside in the stands while Hindy went on an on about torrential rain - there was no rain at that specific point.
I was there for most of the 24 hours. Certainly having Alonzo in the winning team is a great outcome fir IMSA. The BMW win is a bit stranger. IMSA had to throw the red flag a the EXACT time that the leading Ford pitted. The BMWs were just downright slow in the dry, and somewhat faster in the wet. The Corvettes and the 911s were much faster in the dry. The 911s though seemed to have trouble turning in the wet.
With regards to the rain IMHO some of the guys were in fact badly overdriving the cars into the infield turn. I assume every team was thinking “there will be a red flag and we need to get to the front.” I was standing right in front of the turn and would dare to say that over 50% of the cars were running over the line and a good percentage of them lost it all together. The carnage was the result of driver aggression compounded by desperation to get to the front.
With regards to the rain IMHO some of the guys were in fact badly overdriving the cars into the infield turn. I assume every team was thinking “there will be a red flag and we need to get to the front.” I was standing right in front of the turn and would dare to say that over 50% of the cars were running over the line and a good percentage of them lost it all together. The carnage was the result of driver aggression compounded by desperation to get to the front.
I agree with your point about the desperation to get to the front knowing that another (likely final) red flag could've been thrown at any moment.
01-28-2019, 11:31 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Then he should have been going slower, which is my point. The guys who crashed were going too fast for conditions; something that is in their control. Personally, I think that it's incumbent upon the racers to drive safely for conditions and it's up the the race officials to decide whether that speed really constitutes 'racing' from a competitive and spectator standpoint. When it doesn't, you stop the race. But crashing when you overdrive conditions is really the driver's fault.
