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In the past, I had this exact scenario happen to me with another premium brand vehicle I had ordered. They sold my commissioned car to a higher bidder on delivery not once, but twice (this came out in discovery). I got the car on the 3rd try at MSRP + damages and legal fees paid. The GM and sales associate lost their jobs as a result - and I heard through the grapevine that the dealer took a haircut on allocations from the parent for a year.
Lawyers are not the preferred way to go, but sometimes the best option.
It is just sad to see how so many bad things happen to GT cars purchases, although I am sure the cases we read on Rennlist is probably less than 1 percent of all of them sold. Hope things work out.
Does anyone else had any issues with Porsche Nashua? do they have a bad history of dealing with customers?
I'm a bit late to the conversation, but thought I'd chime in. I've had great relationship with Shane, James, and Paul Barstow (when he was selling cars with Nashua).
They've been upfront and helpful and really valued my customer experience. I've also purchased several cars with them previously without issue or drama. It sounds like OP had a very unfortunate experience, but it doesn't reflect the experience of all of the customers.
And yes, Porsche of Nashua sold me a GT car with minimal drama. Having a non-confrontational conversation might go a long way. Shane is a good guy.
Also, since when is a non-export agreement not enforceable? Usually the person signing it is judgment proof (that’s why the shills the exporters use and generally hard up for money and don’t have a lot of assets — no point in suing them for breach of contract or fraud as it is blood from a stone).
Agreements like these are typically non-enforceable to the buying party as there is no penalty nor compensation associated with the agreement. To be more enforceable, ask to set $10-20,000 in an Escrow account. maybe an attorney can offer additional advice
The penalties to a dealer for export are severe and they increase as more cars are exported. It’s possible that Nashua has had a few exports, since that is popular in New Hampshire, and they are now gun shy. If you are paying cash you might allow them to keep the title or record a lien on the title which they agree to release in a year if the car has not been exported. There is always a better way than getting lawyers involved at least that is my experience.
^ u got to be kidding. if I paid cash why would I let anyone put a lien on it.
and the REAL question is not the xport or non xport
is are dealers independent.
if they are then PCNA cannot control them
if they aren't then PCNA is not honest about how they cannot help end users with various "anomalies" the dealers are playing...,
you cannot have it both ways
and let me be devil.
if I sign non export
I then export
so then is the dealer absolved of PENALTY?
or being a bigger devil
I got buy 40 cars from my fav dealer Carlsen and export them all.
does that mean they will not get good allocation next year? if so, I may just set my foot into that stealership tmo.
the point is PCNA/dealer are have some strange relationship.... incest in English I think?
Appreciate your comments and absolutely want to be transparent. Here is the box your referring too. Not until this all went sideways did I look at the contract and your right there is a 48 hour window, which I didn't sign, I can't say that is was foresight but for whatever reason when I signed originally never in a million years did I think I was going to be asked to go through that whole circus in a 48 hour window. When your spending close to 200k on a car you think that the delivery is going to be the best part. That being said we never even got there because they told me the deal was over before the car arrived. Your counter point about financing is interesting, again I had told them I was paying cash when the car was being delivered to Atlanta and they never said a word. Over the course of the year I had asked about trading in a car but they told me I would best going elsewhere as they couldn't meet my ask. A few times I enquired about financing but in the end I decided cash was easiest, but at not time was the deal predicate on financing through them. Again, this was never raised as a sticking point and we never got there because obviously they didn't allow me to pay.
1 GOOD u didnt sign the 48 hour thing
2 there is a legal term that if the contract is too one sided, its not really enforceable. I am only a lawyer on RL soap box. but I know there is that term. so, YOU have to pick up in 48 yours else hell breaks loose. but where is the language that THEY must deliver by a certain date? SEEMS one sided to me.
3 a smaller example but same concept. I was grad student, really busy, worst time of my life. too busy. apartment washing machine broke. I live in large apartment. called mgmt. they send me a note. "tech will be coming and fix on this date b/n x and y time...., you need to be present or chancel 24 hour in advance." I waited. they didnt show. I called mgmt and complained. I said you fine me if I am not around. now I want to fine YOU b/c you didnt show. they send me a fairly big gift cert for a nice dinner... my dentist same. I have to cancel 24 hours or they assess a penalty. one time dentist canceled on me with less than 24 house. I buzzed him and ask for a fee b/c I had to change my schedule. he was flabbergasted but told me the cleaning this time is one the house.
Originally Posted by GiuseppeM
1 thing I can tell you, dealers are notindependent. They’re franchisees.
You can’t wake up in the morning and start a dealership, you can’t get all the cars you want even if you have one, and there is privity between the parties.
The “they’re independent” it’s just an excuse you make you walk away from the argument.
I see that you understood my point.
if one wants to lie, I am all for it.
but make up a good lie.
don't tell ppl that your dog died when it is wagging tail and barking right behind you.
Originally Posted by joejenie
: I would fly in and talk calmly with them and see if you can make a deal. If not, buy a used one on the market since there are a ton of them coming available. Life is too short to be in court.
I am usually calm until I am not.
I pay you
you give me my car
simple stuff
EVERYTHING else is just distraction.
look around you, EVERYTHING in life is simple, when it's not, then it's all distraction.
wow... I am zen for once.
^ u got to be kidding. if I paid cash why would I let anyone put a lien on it.
and the REAL question is not the xport or non xport
is are dealers independent.
if they are then PCNA cannot control them
if they aren't then PCNA is not honest about how they cannot help end users with various "anomalies" the dealers are playing...,
you cannot have it both ways
and let me be devil.
if I sign non export
I then export
so then is the dealer absolved of PENALTY?
or being a bigger devil
I got buy 40 cars from my fav dealer Carlsen and export them all.
does that mean they will not get good allocation next year? if so, I may just set my foot into that stealership tmo.
the point is PCNA/dealer are have some strange relationship.... incest in English I think?
mooty,
you have a great reputation on this forum so I tread very lightly with you. Dealers are controlled by their dealer agreement or franchise agreement. That agreement specifically lays out the penalties for noncompliance of certain rules one of those being export. The dealer agreement also gives the dealer the right to sell cars in their primary area of responsibility as they see fit. Every franchise is different but if a dealer were to sell over eight threshold percentage of cars outside of their area of responsibility they could also be penalized for this. I’m not sure what the Porsche agreement says as I am not currently a Porsche dealer. The dealer is very much independent and that they hired the people they want to hire they capitalize their business within certain guidelines and they run their business as they see fit with in the guidelines set in the dealer agreement. In fact you are an independent business person but you must operate within the parameters set forth in your franchise agreement and therefore are a franchisee. You can be sure if you bought 40 GT cars from a dealership and exported them all that dealership would suffer immensely. At the end of the day it’s the market that decides whether a dealer is successful or not, obviously some are more successful than others. As we all know it’s not possible to be successful if you don’t make your customers happy. The OP Has a difficult situation but I can assure you we do not know the whole story, clearly the OP may not know the whole story. But my money is on the dealership is hypersensitive about export for a very good reason and is not likely selling out this customer for a higher margin. As I said in an earlier post I know Warren Waugh and this is not the way he runs his businesses. He is a very experienced, very successful dealer and is recognized as such by the brands he represents.
1 GOOD u didnt sign the 48 hour thing
2 there is a legal term that if the contract is too one sided, its not really enforceable. I am only a lawyer on RL soap box. but I know there is that term. so, YOU have to pick up in 48 yours else hell breaks loose. but where is the language that THEY must deliver by a certain date? SEEMS one sided to me.
3 a smaller example but same concept. I was grad student, really busy, worst time of my life. too busy. apartment washing machine broke. I live in large apartment. called mgmt. they send me a note. "tech will be coming and fix on this date b/n x and y time...., you need to be present or chancel 24 hour in advance." I waited. they didnt show. I called mgmt and complained. I said you fine me if I am not around. now I want to fine YOU b/c you didnt show. they send me a fairly big gift cert for a nice dinner... my dentist same. I have to cancel 24 hours or they assess a penalty. one time dentist canceled on me with less than 24 house. I buzzed him and ask for a fee b/c I had to change my schedule. he was flabbergasted but told me the cleaning this time is one the house.
I see that you understood my point.
if one wants to lie, I am all for it.
but make up a good lie.
don't tell ppl that your dog died when it is wagging tail and barking right behind you.
I am usually calm until I am not.
I pay you
you give me my car
simple stuff
EVERYTHING else is just distraction.
look around you, EVERYTHING in life is simple, when it's not, then it's all distraction.
wow... I am zen for once.
I agree with you 100% Mooty. PCNA and PAG want to have their cake and eat it too. too often we let them get away with it.
you have a great reputation on this forum so I tread very lightly with you. Dealers are controlled by their dealer agreement or franchise agreement. That agreement specifically lays out the penalties for noncompliance of certain rules one of those being export. The dealer agreement also gives the dealer the right to sell cars in their primary area of responsibility as they see fit. Every franchise is different but if a dealer were to sell over eight threshold percentage of cars outside of their area of responsibility they could also be penalized for this. I’m not sure what the Porsche agreement says as I am not currently a Porsche dealer. The dealer is very much independent and that they hired the people they want to hire they capitalize their business within certain guidelines and they run their business as they see fit with in the guidelines set in the dealer agreement. In fact you are an independent business person but you must operate within the parameters set forth in your franchise agreement and therefore are a franchisee. You can be sure if you bought 40 GT cars from a dealership and exported them all that dealership would suffer immensely. At the end of the day it’s the market that decides whether a dealer is successful or not, obviously some are more successful than others. As we all know it’s not possible to be successful if you don’t make your customers happy. The OP Has a difficult situation but I can assure you we do not know the whole story, clearly the OP may not know the whole story. But my money is on the dealership is hypersensitive about export for a very good reason and is not likely selling out this customer for a higher margin. As I said in an earlier post I know Warren Waugh and this is not the way he runs his businesses. He is a very experienced, very successful dealer and is recognized as such by the brands he represents.
I know neither party. OP dealt with seemingly good faith, paid ADM and ordered car and waited a long time. Dealer orders car and then takes away. If there is a good reason car is being yanked at the last minute then step up to the plate and tell us what it is. Cant be that hard to do.
Not the first time I've heard of a dealer doing this though.
you have a great reputation on this forum so I tread very lightly with you. Dealers are controlled by their dealer agreement or franchise agreement. That agreement specifically lays out the penalties for noncompliance of certain rules one of those being export. The dealer agreement also gives the dealer the right to sell cars in their primary area of responsibility as they see fit. Every franchise is different but if a dealer were to sell over eight threshold percentage of cars outside of their area of responsibility they could also be penalized for this. I’m not sure what the Porsche agreement says as I am not currently a Porsche dealer. The dealer is very much independent and that they hired the people they want to hire they capitalize their business within certain guidelines and they run their business as they see fit with in the guidelines set in the dealer agreement. In fact you are an independent business person but you must operate within the parameters set forth in your franchise agreement and therefore are a franchisee. You can be sure if you bought 40 GT cars from a dealership and exported them all that dealership would suffer immensely. At the end of the day it’s the market that decides whether a dealer is successful or not, obviously some are more successful than others. As we all know it’s not possible to be successful if you don’t make your customers happy. The OP Has a difficult situation but I can assure you we do not know the whole story, clearly the OP may not know the whole story. But my money is on the dealership is hypersensitive about export for a very good reason and is not likely selling out this customer for a higher margin. As I said in an earlier post I know Warren Waugh and this is not the way he runs his businesses. He is a very experienced, very successful dealer and is recognized as such by the brands he represents.
It would be helpful if they addressed the issue on the forum
First...no,i am not an Attorney, nor have i ever played one on T.V.
Next...i believe you have a solid contract...there is a Vin# and a signed contract to purchase this Vin#. If the dealer cannot produce this vehicle because the vehicle is not built, then you have nothing....no harm, no foul, as you're out a vehicle and the dealer is out a sale....lose / lose.
Not your story....the dealer signed a contract as did you...if the car is built it's yours. End of story.
ADDITIONALLY, IF THE DEALER DIDN'T HAVE YOU SIGN THE 48 HOUR BOX, THAT'S ON HIM, AND HE CAN'T ENFORCE THAT PROVISION. HIS BAD. HEY DEALER! FIRE YOUR FINANCE GUY. NOT YOUR PROBLEM. HIS PROBLEM. DON'T LET HIM MAKE HIS PROBLEMS YOUR PROBLEM.
IF THERE IS A CAR AND YOU WALK IN WITH THE MONEY YOU HAVE PERFORMED YOUR PART OF THIS CONTRACT. IF HE DOEN'T GIVE YOU THE CAR PCNA SENT TO HIM HE IS NOT UPHOLDING HIS END OF THIS CONTRACT.
Like one or two have stated, at this point it may be best to have an attorney speak to them on your behalf.
Keep the listing of the similar vehicle with greater ADM to prove that you have been harmed financially by having to may more than what you agreed to pay, and more than what the dealer agreed to sell for. And you still can't get exactly what you wanted.
i have a feeling that the little guy has a better standing while standing in court with this case. The Judge may just say to the dealer perform or pay a big penalty for pushing around the little guy. Sounds like he is trying to take advantage. He is being greedy and taking advantage of his customers.
Have an attorney get to them before the vehicle goes away.
is the buyer a known exporter? Has he ever exported a new vehicle? Does he even intend to? Generally if the buyer is a Broker or some such entity then there is reasonable cause for alarm. Because the buyer has another residene should not be of concern to a highline dealer. Probably 90% of his customers have more than one residence!
01-16-2019, 02:54 PM
