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I'm in this boat right now and have come to the conclusion that its a trade off and very dependant on exactly how the GT4 is finally delivered. In my case this will be a dedicated road rally and track car. The reason I say its a trade off is because its highly dependant on the type of driving and the style of circuits.
In the US these tend to be relatively open flowing affairs - this definitely favours the GT3. However, in the case of road rallying the roads are very technical, usually tight and twisty and unforgiving - made easier by a good co-driver but still a real battle. In most respects this favours the GT4. Conversely, the simple rear suspension weighs against the GT4 particularly on high speed flowing roads which are rough (the car can become unsettled). City/town stages favour the Cayman every time, it is far more agile.
So it comes back to the release of the 718 GT4 and its final specification - the telegraphed upgrade in power is very nice (GT4 CS) however a bump in torque would be welcome as would PDK on release (the cars must have been road registered at first point of purchase). Budget is a non-issue if I wasn't going to change it in to a single purpose vehicle. However, I'm not stupid enough to pay US300k for a II GT3 just to gut it (the price of the GT3 where I live).
My advice would be to wait and see what pops out at the reveal (which will be in March at the latest) and perhaps most importantly think about how and where you are going to use it. Keep in mind having what appears on paper to be a faster does not make you a faster driver - its the ability to achieve higher corner speeds and do it consistently that matters most of the time.
Consumables like pads and tires are more $$$ for GT3 than 4 and because of weight and rear engine design, you go through them quicker in the 3 than the 4y
It’s not a significant difference. The rear engine of the 3 actually improves brake wear balance (less stress on fronts which typically have most work to do as weight shifts to front axle when on the binders).
And the understeer of the 4 cannot be tuned out entirely which contributes to worse front tire wear.
Running costs are more similar than different between 3 and 4. Only real edge the 4 has in this respect is getting to skip the center-lock hassle.
From someone that has owned not one but two GT4s (both new), I can tell you with no reservation the move to the GT3 (manual) was absolutely worth it. To me (and with the risk of hurting some feelings), I will remember the GT4 as 'the car that could have been'. Between the lack of a visceral engine, and very long gearing - both unbefitting a GT personality, it was pretty apparent what PAG - very willingly - left on the table.
My first one was a bare bones build (no leather, buckets, SC, etc.) and the second had those options and then some. I did the switch as I thought perhaps some of the 'specialness' ppl were refering to (and I never really got to appreciate) was lost in the sofas. The 4-way seats felt too 'loose' - not in a 'throw a hot dog down a hallway' level, but close. Heck, the 18-way sport seats on my Macan Turbo felt more like a glove than the 4-way sofas on the GT4. Moving to a car with buckets certainly added a tad to the driving experience but at the end of the day the top two shortcomings were ones that rendered the car an easy sacrifical lamb with a GT3 incoming.
Now, had the GT3 not been offered in manual, I likely would have kept it and likely gone the Demann 4.25 way. In fact, pending some pleasant surprises on the 718 GT4, I'd likely opt for the 4.25 981 GT4 over a 718 GT4. (though realize that's not what you are asking)
There is a new GT4 coming out - we don't know anything about the detail.
However, two things you can factor in - the GT4 is lighter than the GT3 and it has a better weight distribution. The latter has many positive attributes included improved tire wear - very important in a Motorsport context.
Even Porsche recognised this with the RSR - now mid-engined to improve aero and tire wear.
Porsche being Porsche - will address many of the issues identified in the 981 GT4 and as we now know the 718 GT4 will have a least 425HP. Keep in mind the 992 has been released and the fact there are a large number of 991 GT3s on the market.
On the road it doesn't make an iota of difference in fact the Cayman is the more intimate of the two and its performance is more accessible more of the time.
Yes, but not necessarily in a good way... Last fall I swapped my GT3 Touring with another’s GT4 for one of our most spirited drives following Andy near Fontana Dam. And damn, it sure was thrilling! But I never felt more on the ragged edge and close to losing it than during that drive in that GT4.
By conparison, the GT3 (991.1 or 991.2, both of which I’ve owned as well as a GT4) makes the same drive still exciting but far, far more under control because of the better grip, all wheel steering that makes it a lot easier to aggressively corner on tight roads like that, plus enough toque and power (especially in the .2 GT3) so as not to have to constantly row between 2nd to 3rd gear while trying to steer through all those corners at speed at the same time. And while the 991.1 GT3 doesn’t have quite as much torque, it still has more than GT4 and PDK makes it moot anyway since you can keep steering while doing lightning fast shifts.
Long story short: GT3
Fontana Dam that day. My Mexico Blue GT3 Touring behind the Riviera Blue GT4 that I was driving that day, both behind Alan C’s former Carmine Red GT4.
Best excuse for a GT4 over a GT3, IMO, is that it’s a lot more gentle sounding, driving and looking when not really pushing it, which makes it easier to live with as a daily driver, plus it’s less expensive. Though cost now isn’t that much lower when comparing used GT4’s to used 991.1 GT3’s.
All the talk about GT4 being better on track for balance, etc. is hogwash. It feels great, sure, but GT3 feels even better, grips better in corners, has more power, is a 911, etc etc.
If I could have only one or the other, that is, nice spec used GT4 v nice spec used 991.1 GT3 (even the 2014 GT3 with sofas and iron brakes that I actually had vs a perfect spec hypothetical GT4 with LWB and PCCBS), I would have the GT3. Far more of an event to drive, see, and be seen driving.
My former GT4. Nice, sure but... My former 991.1 GT3. Damn. Miss it. Anyway, if I could buy one back, this would be it by a mile vs the GT4.
OP wait until march before making a decision - plenty of options out there. Read my first post closely - it was well considered and accurate.
If you want a fast car don't bother with the GT3 get a 720S - faster with way, way, way better suspension (its outstanding and I'm very happy with mine) alternatively, if it has to be a 991 get a 1 series or 2 series RS. They are a cut above.
I suspect if if you wait for the 718 GT4 you might find you get a nice surprise - if it doesn't work for you or float you boat, there will be plenty of used GT3s to pick from which will have a nice slug of depreciation attached - win win.
Just make sure you get the right horse for the right course. Get what works for you, what feels right, what moves you.
As an afterthought I would not go near a 991 GT3 Series 1, the engine is a manufacturing failure par excellence due to poor oiling and metallurgically sub par finger followers.
Considering selling GT4 (and other cars) for ordering a new GT3. What are the considerations involved regarding
- performance characteristics
- cost of ownership / maintenance/ depreciation
We’re still learning track driving and I feel like GT4 is a good less scary car to do that. We’re so slow we haven’t had to change tires or brakes yet. =P
I like older gen cars for some of those old characteristics - hydraulic steering, hand brake, but not sure if I’m good enough to actually feel the difference. Certainly the GT4 is the best feeling car I have.
However I’m starting to think about the end of the warranty period and wondering if maybe there’s something to building a good relation with the dealer and always driving a new GT car.
How much would you be spending if you got a new GT car when it came out and sold it after a year to recoup some of the costs?
For a purely fun car that would be rarely driven, and mainly for the track, do you prefer
- buy and hold
- buy every generation and sell, always driving the latest?
For mainly track use (assuming HPDE) and you are at a novice level, I would say stick with the GT4 for awhile, develop skill and progress to at least the intermediate level. There will be CPO GT3s available in the future.
Just made this switch myself. Traded in GT4 for 991.2 GT3. Another month before I pick it up. Biggest reason, engine in 991.2, plus was able to get manual.
718 GT4 will be awesome if it gets the same engine but will depend how much hp they will let it have.
Lapis, I found my GT4 thoroughly entertaining when pushed on all the roads we drove in the Smokies. It wasn't the least bit scary to drive and I think Andy would agree. A couple of the tight switch backs on 'Wayah's sister found the tall second gear to be a bit of a pain but that's it.
I had a GT4.... traded in for the GT3. I have to admit I miss the smaller cabin, tighter turning on the track...and those sexy line. But stomping on that 500hp makes most of that a non-issue. I wish I could have kept them both.
On the track I pushed my almost-stock GT4 (slicks) as much as I could and it was awesome, but I felt like I needed more HP.
While getting to know my GT3 on the track I'm finding that maybe it's my own nuts that are keeping my lap times at a plateau. However I matched my best GT4 lap in my 2nd session at Road Atlanta and Barber in my GT3 and now I have lot of room to grow again.
01-13-2019, 01:40 AM
